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Game 17: Phoenix Suns (13-3) @ San Antonio Spurs (4-11), Monday, 6:30PM

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Re: Game 17: Phoenix Suns (13-3) @ San Antonio Spurs (4-11), Monday, 6:30PM 

Post#81 » by bwgood77 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:57 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:God damn, how do you not dunk that DA?


As the announcers said, he was too deep..under the rim...and then also with two guys.

The guy is 7ft. He could dunk from behind the board if he wanted to. Also no one touched him


Maybe, but he was further under the rim...he would have had to jump backwards or lean around..that's why it came off the way it did. Anyway, he could have been in a little better position.

It is interesting. I was looking at dunks and JaVale actually dunks more per minute than anyone in the NBA..at least that plays decent minutes.

Ayton's like 9th in dunks per game.
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Re: Game 17: Phoenix Suns (13-3) @ San Antonio Spurs (4-11), Monday, 6:30PM 

Post#82 » by Saberestar » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:58 am

13 in a row. LET'S GOOOO!
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Re: Game 17: Phoenix Suns (13-3) @ San Antonio Spurs (4-11), Monday, 6:30PM 

Post#83 » by Slim Charless » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:00 am

Jesus_H_Macy wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
As the announcers said, he was too deep..under the rim...and then also with two guys.

The guy is 7ft. He could dunk from behind the board if he wanted to. Also no one touched him


It was half lack of spatial awareness and half him not willing to jump more than 6 inches. I love DA but his refusal to jump when he’s near the basket if it’s not a lob is really fkn confounding. Dude just had to make a tiny bit more effort to jump up in the air and that would’ve been a dunk regardless of him being under the basket. DA would be an absolute monster if he would jump a little higher. His layups would turn into dunks, and his dunks would get him to the line and/or gets dudes to stay out of his way


He needs to get meaner. That, above all is my biggest complaint for him since his rookie year. His lack of aggressiveness and seek and destroy attitude would be covered up by simply being meaner.

You'd think playing with 1 of the leagues most notorious **** in Chris Paul would get him some more intensity. He needs to learn a thing or 2 from KG.
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Re: Game 17: Phoenix Suns (13-3) @ San Antonio Spurs (4-11), Monday, 6:30PM 

Post#84 » by Crives » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:06 am

13-0.. I had a feeling the Spurs would screw us tonight
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Re: Game 17: Phoenix Suns (13-3) @ San Antonio Spurs (4-11), Monday, 6:30PM 

Post#85 » by bwgood77 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:07 am

Slim Charless wrote:
Jesus_H_Macy wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:The guy is 7ft. He could dunk from behind the board if he wanted to. Also no one touched him


It was half lack of spatial awareness and half him not willing to jump more than 6 inches. I love DA but his refusal to jump when he’s near the basket if it’s not a lob is really fkn confounding. Dude just had to make a tiny bit more effort to jump up in the air and that would’ve been a dunk regardless of him being under the basket. DA would be an absolute monster if he would jump a little higher. His layups would turn into dunks, and his dunks would get him to the line and/or gets dudes to stay out of his way


He needs to get meaner. That, above all is my biggest complaint for him since his rookie year. His lack of aggressiveness and seek and destroy attitude would be covered up by simply being meaner.

You'd think playing with 1 of the leagues most notorious **** in Chris Paul would get him some more intensity. He needs to learn a thing or 2 from KG.


I don't think that's him. He's a little more low key like a TD. So you'll probably be frustrated with him his entire career with the Suns.

I think a number of people will even if he has a really strong career for whatever reason.
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Re: Game 17: Phoenix Suns (13-3) @ San Antonio Spurs (4-11), Monday, 6:30PM 

Post#86 » by lilfishi22 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:12 am

bwgood77 wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
As the announcers said, he was too deep..under the rim...and then also with two guys.

The guy is 7ft. He could dunk from behind the board if he wanted to. Also no one touched him


Maybe, but he was further under the rim...he would have had to jump backwards or lean around..that's why it came off the way it did. Anyway, he could have been in a little better position.

It is interesting. I was looking at dunks and JaVale actually dunks more per minute than anyone in the NBA..at least that plays decent minutes.

Ayton's like 9th in dunks per game.

I rewatched it. He absolutely could have dunked it
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Lebron - Zion, Barrett like Melo, wade like Culver, garland like tj ford, hunter like bosh, white like Barbosa, Clarke like David West. I think this draft is actually going to be deeper though
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Re: Game 17: Phoenix Suns (13-3) @ San Antonio Spurs (4-11), Monday, 6:30PM 

Post#87 » by Slim Charless » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:14 am

bwgood77 wrote:
Slim Charless wrote:
Jesus_H_Macy wrote:
It was half lack of spatial awareness and half him not willing to jump more than 6 inches. I love DA but his refusal to jump when he’s near the basket if it’s not a lob is really fkn confounding. Dude just had to make a tiny bit more effort to jump up in the air and that would’ve been a dunk regardless of him being under the basket. DA would be an absolute monster if he would jump a little higher. His layups would turn into dunks, and his dunks would get him to the line and/or gets dudes to stay out of his way


He needs to get meaner. That, above all is my biggest complaint for him since his rookie year. His lack of aggressiveness and seek and destroy attitude would be covered up by simply being meaner.

You'd think playing with 1 of the leagues most notorious **** in Chris Paul would get him some more intensity. He needs to learn a thing or 2 from KG.


I don't think that's him. He's a little more low key like a TD. So you'll probably be frustrated with him his entire career with the Suns.

I think a number of people will even if he has a really strong career for whatever reason.


Na. I'm fine with him especially in comparison to a few other posters here lol. I like how he played tonight for the most part. I'm not gonna nitpick about 21/14....with 5 offensive rebounds. He can quietly do that all season right on his way to 2nd team all NBA :nod:
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Re: Game 17: Phoenix Suns (13-3) @ San Antonio Spurs (4-11), Monday, 6:30PM 

Post#88 » by bwgood77 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:22 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:The guy is 7ft. He could dunk from behind the board if he wanted to. Also no one touched him


Maybe, but he was further under the rim...he would have had to jump backwards or lean around..that's why it came off the way it did. Anyway, he could have been in a little better position.

It is interesting. I was looking at dunks and JaVale actually dunks more per minute than anyone in the NBA..at least that plays decent minutes.

Ayton's like 9th in dunks per game.

I rewatched it. He absolutely could have dunked it


OK, not in the best position to as Eddie and Kevin said, but sure. Anything can happen so it was possible, just not the easiest given the position. Too bad he didn't as I saw a few of you were pretty disappointed.
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Re: Game 17: Phoenix Suns (13-3) @ San Antonio Spurs (4-11), Monday, 6:30PM 

Post#89 » by lilfishi22 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:59 am

Could look at it a couple of different ways but I choose to look at Booker's season as a good one even though he's been uncharacteristic in terms of his scoring and overall efficiency. This entire season he's only had one 35pt+ game. He's only had two 30+pt games and only 4 25+pt games. He's shooting a lower percentage from the floor but we're winning, he's been super clutch and his 3PT% is getting closer to his career high. It just seems like he doesn't feel the need to be the top scorer for validation, he's just getting his points in the flow of the offense.

It's really good that we don't need Book to score 40 or 50 just to compete and ultimately lose. Almost every game this season we've had a role player step up. This game was Payne, the last game was the other Cam, the pair of Dallas W's were truly a team effort and a week or so ago it was Frank with the career game.
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Re: Game 17: Phoenix Suns (13-3) @ San Antonio Spurs (4-11), Monday, 6:30PM 

Post#90 » by suns12345 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 5:10 am

lilfishi22 wrote:Could look at it a couple of different ways but I choose to look at Booker's season as a good one even though he's been uncharacteristic in terms of his scoring and overall efficiency. This entire season he's only had one 35pt+ game. He's only had two 30+pt games and only 4 25+pt games. He's shooting a lower percentage from the floor but we're winning, he's been super clutch and his 3PT% is getting closer to his career high. It just seems like he doesn't feel the need to be the top scorer for validation, he's just getting his points in the flow of the offense.

It's really good that we don't need Book to score 40 or 50 just to compete and ultimately lose. Almost every game this season we've had a role player step up. This game was Payne, the last game was the other Cam, the pair of Dallas W's were truly a team effort and a week or so ago it was Frank with the career game.


I absolutely agree and have been thinking the same thing - this is his second year with a good team around him. Last year he proved he was an all star, showed out in the playoffs and made it to the finals.

This year he is doing what it takes to win, getting his guys involved and just winning games. I'm sure his stats will tick up but he is playing like a true vet know.

Good to see IMO as much as I want Book to get his All-Star votes etc. etc.
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Re: Game 17: Phoenix Suns (13-3) @ San Antonio Spurs (4-11), Monday, 6:30PM 

Post#91 » by bigfoot » Tue Nov 23, 2021 5:20 am

bwgood77 wrote:
Slim Charless wrote:
Jesus_H_Macy wrote:
It was half lack of spatial awareness and half him not willing to jump more than 6 inches. I love DA but his refusal to jump when he’s near the basket if it’s not a lob is really fkn confounding. Dude just had to make a tiny bit more effort to jump up in the air and that would’ve been a dunk regardless of him being under the basket. DA would be an absolute monster if he would jump a little higher. His layups would turn into dunks, and his dunks would get him to the line and/or gets dudes to stay out of his way


He needs to get meaner. That, above all is my biggest complaint for him since his rookie year. His lack of aggressiveness and seek and destroy attitude would be covered up by simply being meaner.

You'd think playing with 1 of the leagues most notorious **** in Chris Paul would get him some more intensity. He needs to learn a thing or 2 from KG.


I don't think that's him. He's a little more low key like a TD. So you'll probably be frustrated with him his entire career with the Suns.

I think a number of people will even if he has a really strong career for whatever reason.


I think his instinct or reaction time or BBIQ or whatever it is you want to call it is just a step too slow. It's something that is really hard to train because it's not physical. That mental part is having to see something over and over and over and reacting properly. I'm curious how much time Ayton invests in this area ...

https://globalsportmatters.com/science/2019/02/08/elite-athletes-tech-tools-increase-reaction-time/
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Re: Game 17: Phoenix Suns (13-3) @ San Antonio Spurs (4-11), Monday, 6:30PM 

Post#92 » by bwgood77 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 5:34 am

bigfoot wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Slim Charless wrote:
He needs to get meaner. That, above all is my biggest complaint for him since his rookie year. His lack of aggressiveness and seek and destroy attitude would be covered up by simply being meaner.

You'd think playing with 1 of the leagues most notorious **** in Chris Paul would get him some more intensity. He needs to learn a thing or 2 from KG.


I don't think that's him. He's a little more low key like a TD. So you'll probably be frustrated with him his entire career with the Suns.

I think a number of people will even if he has a really strong career for whatever reason.


I think his instinct or reaction time or BBIQ or whatever it is you want to call it is just a step too slow. It's something that is really hard to train because it's not physical. That mental part is having to see something over and over and over and reacting properly. I'm curious how much time Ayton invests in this area ...

https://globalsportmatters.com/science/2019/02/08/elite-athletes-tech-tools-increase-reaction-time/


He has always had a problem of overthinking things. But through repetition and practice many things have become more instinctual since his time at AZ. I think he reacts quickly to switching onto guards and sticking with them and sometimes stuffing them, etc. That type of stuff he used to be completely lost and frozen on 2-3 years ago.
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Re: Game 17: Phoenix Suns (13-3) @ San Antonio Spurs (4-11), Monday, 6:30PM 

Post#93 » by bwgood77 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 5:40 am

suns12345 wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:Could look at it a couple of different ways but I choose to look at Booker's season as a good one even though he's been uncharacteristic in terms of his scoring and overall efficiency. This entire season he's only had one 35pt+ game. He's only had two 30+pt games and only 4 25+pt games. He's shooting a lower percentage from the floor but we're winning, he's been super clutch and his 3PT% is getting closer to his career high. It just seems like he doesn't feel the need to be the top scorer for validation, he's just getting his points in the flow of the offense.

It's really good that we don't need Book to score 40 or 50 just to compete and ultimately lose. Almost every game this season we've had a role player step up. This game was Payne, the last game was the other Cam, the pair of Dallas W's were truly a team effort and a week or so ago it was Frank with the career game.


I absolutely agree and have been thinking the same thing - this is his second year with a good team around him. Last year he proved he was an all star, showed out in the playoffs and made it to the finals.

This year he is doing what it takes to win, getting his guys involved and just winning games. I'm sure his stats will tick up but he is playing like a true vet know.

Good to see IMO as much as I want Book to get his All-Star votes etc. etc.


I agree I like the way he is playing better, but mostly his assist/to. He is actually taking as many shots as he has every other year...or right around the same....actually per 36 it's his most FGA per 36 of any year. So his big scoring games are not as often more because of he has struggled with efficiency.

But as good as he has been from midrange the last 3 years I doubt this is something that sticks around...I think he will get back to normal. But the 3 things I thought he needed to work on he has improved on...turnovers, 3pt shooting and defense.

Sometimes I'd prefer he take fewer shots but as long as we are winning, even if his efficiency is down, things are ok. Will be interesting to see how we play now that our schedule gets a lot tougher through Christmas.

I'll be surprised if he doesn't get voted in as an all star even though his #s (mainly talking efficiency) are not nearly as good as the last two years...given our record and finals trip, etc. Provided we stay among the top few teams in the west....even top 4-5.

But we have a few game lead on 3rd and more on the teams after that...they drop to near 500 fast...6th place is 9-8.
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Re: Game 17: Phoenix Suns (13-3) @ San Antonio Spurs (4-11), Monday, 6:30PM 

Post#94 » by lilfishi22 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:05 am

The key thing in that watching the game, it doesn't FEEL like he's trying to wrestle control away from anyone coach or player to get his points. He just seems more content with letting others shine in the name of winning. Yes his shot attempts are roughly in line with his career average but the shots he takes don't feel out of the flow of the offense. He's making faster reads and almost certainly making more of the right plays, especially in the 4th where there is a lot fewer ISO Book possessions.

He generally starts the season fairly slow so I fully expect his efficiency to go back up
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Lebron - Zion, Barrett like Melo, wade like Culver, garland like tj ford, hunter like bosh, white like Barbosa, Clarke like David West. I think this draft is actually going to be deeper though
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Re: Game 17: Phoenix Suns (13-3) @ San Antonio Spurs (4-11), Monday, 6:30PM 

Post#95 » by Bogyo » Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:21 am

Slim Charless wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Slim Charless wrote:
He needs to get meaner. That, above all is my biggest complaint for him since his rookie year. His lack of aggressiveness and seek and destroy attitude would be covered up by simply being meaner.

You'd think playing with 1 of the leagues most notorious **** in Chris Paul would get him some more intensity. He needs to learn a thing or 2 from KG.


I don't think that's him. He's a little more low key like a TD. So you'll probably be frustrated with him his entire career with the Suns.

I think a number of people will even if he has a really strong career for whatever reason.


Na. I'm fine with him especially in comparison to a few other posters here lol. I like how he played tonight for the most part. I'm not gonna nitpick about 21/14....with 5 offensive rebounds. He can quietly do that all season right on his way to 2nd team all NBA :nod:


My feelings about DA are about the same as DA's feelings about playing compeitive basketball. I'm good, content with it, but far from estatic or putting in 100%.
Is he gonna be an allstar a couple times? For sure! All-NBA? Most likely. Could he be a lot better than that if he really tried and had the mindset? Absolutley. It is what it is.
About that no dunk - dude has like a 45 inch vertical... tell me about bad positioning or whatever, I'll tell you about lack of effort to jump. All day, every day, any damn day, on any random play. But I've gotten used to it by now, and his overall play, impact and stats are good. I just don't really care for the guy for the above reasons (that have been beaten to death... twice over).
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Re: Game 17: Phoenix Suns (13-3) @ San Antonio Spurs (4-11), Monday, 6:30PM 

Post#96 » by sunsbg » Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:51 am

Bogyo wrote:
Slim Charless wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
I don't think that's him. He's a little more low key like a TD. So you'll probably be frustrated with him his entire career with the Suns.

I think a number of people will even if he has a really strong career for whatever reason.


Na. I'm fine with him especially in comparison to a few other posters here lol. I like how he played tonight for the most part. I'm not gonna nitpick about 21/14....with 5 offensive rebounds. He can quietly do that all season right on his way to 2nd team all NBA :nod:


My feelings about DA are about the same as DA's feelings about playing compeitive basketball. I'm good, content with it, but far from estatic or putting in 100%.
Is he gonna be an allstar a couple times? For sure! All-NBA? Most likely. Could he be a lot better than that if he really tried and had the mindset? Absolutley. It is what it is.
About that no dunk - dude has like a 45 inch vertical... tell me about bad positioning or whatever, I'll tell you about lack of effort to jump. All day, every day, any damn day, on any random play. But I've gotten used to it by now, and his overall play, impact and stats are good. I just don't really care for the guy for the above reasons (that have been beaten to death... twice over).


DA is as important as anyone on the team for current and last playoffs success. I guess you would not care for a co-worker doing his job quietly either. Wonder how many of the critics are putting any more effort in their jobs than Ayton, who's doing just fine, except not dunking every ball I guess.
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Re: Game 17: Phoenix Suns (13-3) @ San Antonio Spurs (4-11), Monday, 6:30PM 

Post#97 » by irish22022 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:00 am

STEV13 wrote:
Revived wrote:Why would Suns not take a timeout there?


Monty just never does. He sucks at managing timeouts, and stopping these late game runs.


Monty still won't call timeouts at the end of regulation. I actually don't get it and really want a beat reporter to ask him about this. It's getting to be unbelievable.
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Re: Game 17: Phoenix Suns (13-3) @ San Antonio Spurs (4-11), Monday, 6:30PM 

Post#98 » by Mulhollanddrive » Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:17 am

I'm still trying to understand the Javale McGee impact and how it may translate in playoffs (good and bad):

Past 2 games (29 minutes):
24 points
8 defensive rebounds
4 offensive rebounds
1 steal
75% FG
+24

But had 12 poor posessions:
4 shooting fouls
3 offensive fouls
3 turnovers
1 loose ball foul
1 offensive goaltending
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Re: Game 17: Phoenix Suns (13-3) @ San Antonio Spurs (4-11), Monday, 6:30PM 

Post#99 » by Saberestar » Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:00 am

Bogyo wrote:
Slim Charless wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
I don't think that's him. He's a little more low key like a TD. So you'll probably be frustrated with him his entire career with the Suns.

I think a number of people will even if he has a really strong career for whatever reason.


Na. I'm fine with him especially in comparison to a few other posters here lol. I like how he played tonight for the most part. I'm not gonna nitpick about 21/14....with 5 offensive rebounds. He can quietly do that all season right on his way to 2nd team all NBA :nod:


My feelings about DA are about the same as DA's feelings about playing compeitive basketball. I'm good, content with it, but far from estatic or putting in 100%.
Is he gonna be an allstar a couple times? For sure! All-NBA? Most likely. Could he be a lot better than that if he really tried and had the mindset? Absolutley. It is what it is.
About that no dunk - dude has like a 45 inch vertical... tell me about bad positioning or whatever, I'll tell you about lack of effort to jump. All day, every day, any damn day, on any random play. But I've gotten used to it by now, and his overall play, impact and stats are good. I just don't really care for the guy for the above reasons (that have been beaten to death... twice over).

How many coordinated 6'11 guys has already seen this league that haven't been as good as Ayton is? Do you remember Kwame Brown? Alex Len? The list is ridiculously long...is not easy to be as good as Ayton is without hard working.

I get that people want him to be the greatest C ever to play the game, it's great to be ambitious and all of that, but some gratitude and appreciation for how great he is at just 23 years old would be nice too.

He didn't score an easy bucket at the rim in this game, yeah, it is true, but he scored on every other chance that he had around the paint. Every player makes a mistake here or there...EVERYONE. His touch around the rim is nice and that allows him to finish without fouling or getting hit and that is huge for an starting big man because of fouls trouble and durability.

What I am trying to say is that Ayton has played two consecutive fantastic games on a back-to-back, scoring 21 points in each of them with very good efficiency and a lot of good defense and rebounding...but we are here just talking about one specific play.

He is not a perfect player but neither is Book, CP3 or Mikal, but I think they don't get criticized as much as Ayton because they are not physical specimens.

Personally I am really happy with Ayton's performance so far this season. He is slightly better than last year, so that means he keeps improving and you know what you are getting from him game in and game out. His floor has raised and he is way more consistent than a year ago...not spectacular but consistent.
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Re: Game 17: Phoenix Suns (13-3) @ San Antonio Spurs (4-11), Monday, 6:30PM 

Post#100 » by bigfoot » Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:25 pm

Saberestar wrote:
Bogyo wrote:
Slim Charless wrote:
Na. I'm fine with him especially in comparison to a few other posters here lol. I like how he played tonight for the most part. I'm not gonna nitpick about 21/14....with 5 offensive rebounds. He can quietly do that all season right on his way to 2nd team all NBA :nod:


My feelings about DA are about the same as DA's feelings about playing compeitive basketball. I'm good, content with it, but far from estatic or putting in 100%.
Is he gonna be an allstar a couple times? For sure! All-NBA? Most likely. Could he be a lot better than that if he really tried and had the mindset? Absolutley. It is what it is.
About that no dunk - dude has like a 45 inch vertical... tell me about bad positioning or whatever, I'll tell you about lack of effort to jump. All day, every day, any damn day, on any random play. But I've gotten used to it by now, and his overall play, impact and stats are good. I just don't really care for the guy for the above reasons (that have been beaten to death... twice over).

How many coordinated 6'11 guys has already seen this league that haven't been as good as Ayton is? Do you remember Kwame Brown? Alex Len? The list is ridiculously long...is not easy to be as good as Ayton is without hard working.

I get that people want him to be the greatest C ever to play the game, it's great to be ambitious and all of that, but some gratitude and appreciation for how great he is at just 23 years old would be nice too.

He didn't score an easy bucket at the rim in this game, yeah, it is true, but he scored on every other chance that he had around the paint. Every player makes a mistake here or there...EVERYONE. His touch around the rim is nice and that allows him to finish without fouling or getting hit and that is huge for an starting big man because of fouls trouble and durability.

What I am trying to say is that Ayton has played two consecutive fantastic games on a back-to-back, scoring 21 points in each of them with very good efficiency and a lot of good defense and rebounding...but we are here just talking about one specific play.

He is not a perfect player but neither is Book, CP3 or Mikal, but I think they don't get criticized as much as Ayton because they are not physical specimens.

Personally I am really happy with Ayton's performance so far this season. He is slightly better than last year, so that means he keeps improving and you know what you are getting from him game in and game out. His floor has raised and he is way more consistent than a year ago...not spectacular but consistent.


Make sure to take a look at player stats for the Suns on nba.com. DA has some of the worst on the team for non-traditional stats. Sure his traditional stats look good but when you start looking at all the other little things, he darn near has the worst numbers in most of them. Certainly bottom of the team for many. For example, opponent FG% when he is on the court or opponent +/- or opponent 3pt %. Really his defense has been meh so far this season and the numbers back it up.

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