Game 63: New York Knicks (25-37) @ Phoenix Suns (50-12) | Friday | 8.00pm AZT | ESPN

[Revived]

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This one’s cool too (and in the same tweet thread). Would’ve been nice if we got his legendary “BANG” but eh understandable since he’s working for NYK broadcast in this one.

[Fo-Real]

"THATS **** GAME" yelled Cameron Johnson!!!

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[lilfishi22]

Not saying at all that either Robinson or Williams is as good as Ayton, only that they are better value.

They're not better value when they're getting BBQ'd in the playoffs.

Ask Utah fans how they felt about Gobert's max deal after that LAC series....and he's a 3 time DPOTY.

Biyombo might be able to offer as much Ayton does in the playoffs. He has a somewhat decent looking floater from the FT area.

And he plays with enough energy to make up for some of the skill difference between Ayton and Biyombo.

I’d rather have Biyombo or Robinson on a 3 yr $18M deal than Ayton on a 4 yr $150M deal.

Ayton had a nice 9 game stretch in the playoffs. Great. Is that a one time fluke or can he repeat in the playoffs again? Remains to be seen.

But right now, after 72 games played in the regular season, Robert Sarver is looking like an absolute genius for not giving him the max that many were disappointed to see Ayton not get.

Ayton should’ve been averaging crazy numbers like 40 and 15 in these games without Booker or CP3. 25 and 10 in the games with just Booker. But he hasn’t been anywhere close to it.

Therein lies a big issue. It's Year 4 and he's still completely reliant on others to create opportunities for him. CP3 has just done a HOF job of hiding this problem for the past two seasons.

[Slim Charless]

Not saying at all that either Robinson or Williams is as good as Ayton, only that they are better value.

They're not better value when they're getting BBQ'd in the playoffs.

Ask Utah fans how they felt about Gobert's max deal after that LAC series....and he's a 3 time DPOTY.

Biyombo might be able to offer as much Ayton does in the playoffs. He has a somewhat decent looking floater from the FT area.

And he plays with enough energy to make up for some of the skill difference between Ayton and Biyombo.

I’d rather have Biyombo or Robinson on a 3 yr $18M deal than Ayton on a 4 yr $150M deal.

Ayton had a nice 9 game stretch in the playoffs. Great. Is that a one time fluke or can he repeat in the playoffs again? Remains to be seen.

But right now, after 72 games played in the regular season, Robert Sarver is looking like an absolute genius for not giving him the max that many were disappointed to see Ayton not get.

Ayton should’ve been averaging crazy numbers like 40 and 15 in these games without Booker or CP3. 25 and 10 in the games with just Booker. But he hasn’t been anywhere close to it.

1st: Mitchell is getting wayyyyy more than 6/yr he's gonna get like 18 a year most likely.

2nd: Ayton can't pass the ball to himself so he can't very well average 40 a game if they don't feed him. He had 10 shots tonights and yes a few didn't go in so, they didn't go to him anymore.

3rd: His "nice 9 game stretch".....was actually historical-as in no one had that level of production with little shots. All while playing fantastic D.

4th: Robert Sarver is not a genius....in anything....ever. If he tells you the sky is blue, then you should go look outside your window, just to make sure.

[darealjuice]

I just look at centers like running backs in the NFL. If they aren't a top tier player like Joel Embiid or Nikola Jokic, you're better off spending that money elsewhere and filling the center rotation with veterans and young players with something to play for. There's only so much money to go around, and I think finding a way to use that money on our post-CP3 point guard makes more sense in today's game. I might feel different if we had a young point guard (like Haliburton) waiting to take over though.

Not denying Ayton's impact on the team, just not sure it stacks up to other players in that pay range.

[bwgood77]

Not saying at all that either Robinson or Williams is as good as Ayton, only that they are better value.

They're not better value when they're getting BBQ'd in the playoffs.

Ask Utah fans how they felt about Gobert's max deal after that LAC series....and he's a 3 time DPOTY.

Biyombo might be able to offer as much Ayton does in the playoffs. He has a somewhat decent looking floater from the FT area.

And he plays with enough energy to make up for some of the skill difference between Ayton and Biyombo.

I’d rather have Biyombo or Robinson on a 3 yr $18M deal than Ayton on a 4 yr $150M deal.

Ayton had a nice 9 game stretch in the playoffs. Great. Is that a one time fluke or can he repeat in the playoffs again? Remains to be seen.

But right now, after 72 games played in the regular season, Robert Sarver is looking like an absolute genius for not giving him the max that many were disappointed to see Ayton not get.

Ayton should’ve been averaging crazy numbers like 40 and 15 in these games without Booker or CP3. 25 and 10 in the games with just Booker. But he hasn’t been anywhere close to it.

I think Knicks will probably keep Robinson. We could probably get Biyombo easily for $6 million a year since no team wanted him and he was an UFA we got for the minimum though. I don't think he'd give us as much in the playoffs. People quickly forget about what Ayton did in the playoffs last year though after a bad game.

If we let Ayton walk there will be a few options, like Nurkic for 1. He would probably be the best option. Thomas Bryant is a FA. I used to really like him but he hasn't been the same after injury that kept him out a long time and has been injured a lot the last 3 years.

Or we could go after Zubac.

So those will be the main options if someone does offer Ayton a max or big contract we don't match. Someone might, given he has developed the best hook shot in the NBA that is money and has the defensive versatility. You mentioned you don't think much of his defense but it's better than most all Cs all things considered, especially if teams go small in the playoffs or something...and he can match up with just about anyone.

Here is the list. https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/center/

Of course I've mentioned I wouldn't give him the max and would offer him more of a Collins type deal and hope to get something like that or 5/$140. Though I'd probably match just because I think he has enough upside and skills a lot of teams would covet in a trade...and we could get pieces back rather than lose for nothing. I don't think it would be thought of as the worst contract in the league at all.

[SkyBill40]

4th: Robert Sarver is not a genius....in anything....ever. If he tells you the sky is blue, then you should go look outside your window, just to make sure.

Uh.... he's a billionaire last I checked. That doesn't come without some pretty savvy skills and business moxie. Genius? No, clearly not; pretty damned smart where he needs to be? For sure.

Dude is a knob when it comes to hoops in general, but don't sell him short on being smart. If it were that easy, everyone would be a billionaire.

I think I need to vomit now as I can't believe I stuck up for ol' Bob $arver. Holy hell, I need some mouthwash.

[bwgood77]

I just look at centers like running backs in the NFL. If they aren't a top tier player like Joel Embiid or Nikola Jokic, you're better off spending that money elsewhere and filling the center rotation with veterans and young players with something to play for. There's only so much money to go around, and I think finding a way to use that money on our post-CP3 point guard makes more sense in today's game. I might feel different if we had a young point guard (like Haliburton) waiting to take over though.

Not denying Ayton's impact on the team, just not sure it stacks up to other players in that pay range.

I totally agree with this but I'd still have a hard time just letting him walk for nothing. I don't think if he got a max it would be viewed as a negative contract by all teams.

[bwgood77]

Therein lies a big issue. It's Year 4 and he's still completely reliant on others to create opportunities for him. CP3 has just done a HOF job of hiding this problem for the past two seasons.

He's shown he can create a lot more this year with his hook shot if he gets the ball in close range, even if well guarded. He could develop more. He also had some pretty big games last year in the playoffs when Paul was out. He had 44 pts on 76% shooting in games 1 and 2 against the Clips along with 23 rebounds. Just no chemistry at all with Payne right now with Payne in his first couple games back.

[ATTL]

There are several parallels between camjo and majerle. Both booed by fans. Both becoming fan favorites noting after and integral parts of finals teams.

This 3 reminded me of Dan's against the lakers too.

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[bwgood77]

4th: Robert Sarver is not a genius....in anything....ever. If he tells you the sky is blue, then you should go look outside your window, just to make sure.

Uh.... he's a billionaire last I checked. That doesn't come without some pretty savvy skills and business moxie. Genius? No, clearly not; pretty damned smart where he needs to be? For sure.

Dude is a knob when it comes to hoops in general, but don't sell him short on being smart. If it were that easy, everyone would be a billionaire.

I think I need to vomit now as I can't believe I stuck up for ol' Bob $arver. Holy hell, I need some mouthwash.

He's not a billionaire. His net worth is like $800K, but probabaly almost all of that is Suns equity or Real Estate equity. Probably not too liquid.

Hopefully he makes a lot more money now on the team with gambling and a contender and all that, but I think he's still pretty cheap at heart. I think he has the same mentality as many here where he will see a stinker game here and there and refuse to pay him.

I mean he's refused to pay people for less (ie, Joe Johnson on an extension).

[sunsbg]

Think DA is under 10rbs for the season now. He should have incredible playoffs to get a max from the Suns. Every big game from Cam increases the chance DA is traded for a cheaper C.

[lilfishi22]

Therein lies a big issue. It's Year 4 and he's still completely reliant on others to create opportunities for him. CP3 has just done a HOF job of hiding this problem for the past two seasons.

He's shown he can create a lot more this year with his hook shot if he gets the ball in close range, even if well guarded. He could develop more. He also had some pretty big games last year in the playoffs when Paul was out. He had 44 pts on 76% shooting in games 1 and 2 against the Clips along with 23 rebounds. Just no chemistry at all with Payne right now with Payne in his first couple games back.

I don't mean finishing a shot. He has a variety of ways to get a shot off. Matter of fact, his hook shot is elite. The problem, and it's one that has been there since his rookie season, is that he's not able to create availability in which anyone on the court can get him the ball. I constantly see the argument that this player or that player isn't getting him the ball but how often does he try to get himself open? The answer is not nearly enough. Once he has the ball in his hands, he can do all sorts of things but he can't even get the ball the majority of the time and that's because he doesn't work hard enough to make a pass to him available.

We've seen him finish with quick hooks, middy jumpers, alleyoops and they are all good but these attempts are essentially a player guiding him to the kind of shot they want him to take.

[Revived]

They're not better value when they're getting BBQ'd in the playoffs.

Ask Utah fans how they felt about Gobert's max deal after that LAC series....and he's a 3 time DPOTY.

Biyombo might be able to offer as much Ayton does in the playoffs. He has a somewhat decent looking floater from the FT area.

And he plays with enough energy to make up for some of the skill difference between Ayton and Biyombo.

I’d rather have Biyombo or Robinson on a 3 yr $18M deal than Ayton on a 4 yr $150M deal.

Ayton had a nice 9 game stretch in the playoffs. Great. Is that a one time fluke or can he repeat in the playoffs again? Remains to be seen.

But right now, after 72 games played in the regular season, Robert Sarver is looking like an absolute genius for not giving him the max that many were disappointed to see Ayton not get.

Ayton should’ve been averaging crazy numbers like 40 and 15 in these games without Booker or CP3. 25 and 10 in the games with just Booker. But he hasn’t been anywhere close to it.

1st: Mitchell is getting wayyyyy more than 6/yr he's gonna get like 18 a year most likely.

2nd: Ayton can't pass the ball to himself so he can't very well average 40 a game if they don't feed him. He had 10 shots tonights and yes a few didn't go in so, they didn't go to him anymore.

3rd: His "nice 9 game stretch".....was actually historical-as in no one had that level of production with little shots. All while playing fantastic D.

4th: Robert Sarver is not a genius....in anything....ever. If he tells you the sky is blue, then you should go look outside your window, just to make sure.

1st: I highly doubt that man. Robinson isn’t that highly regarded lol and most people have the opinion that bigs are becoming more and more obsolete in this game unless they can produce Embiid/Jokic type production. Bam Adebayo is a very good C for example and I’ve seen many people talk about how incredibly overpaid he is because he’s on a max contract too I think.

Robinson might get $10M/yr at most, anything more than that would surprise me.

2nd: I agree a bit but there are many instances where he gets the ball and he looks to pass without even thinking about shooting. He had a play in the Portland game where a 6’5 benchwarmer is the only one near him and he doesn’t even look at the rim and instead passes the ball eventually resulting in a turnover. Guys are gonna be more hesitant to pass him the ball when they know he’s just gonna pass it back to them, it’s wasting time. Only time he really goes up for a shot is the 2-3 times he establishes position in the paint or a lob.

This is the play I’m taking about:

Spoiler:

3rd: I don’t disagree at all there. He was dominant in the playoffs and a major problem for other teams. But it was still like a 20 game stretch. If he can play like that again then sure yeah I’d say his up and down play in the reg season doesn’t matter.

4th: I edited and added James Jones in there since it seems like he wasn’t comfortable committing to Ayton without seeing another season either.

[SkyBill40]

4th: Robert Sarver is not a genius....in anything....ever. If he tells you the sky is blue, then you should go look outside your window, just to make sure.

Uh.... he's a billionaire last I checked. That doesn't come without some pretty savvy skills and business moxie. Genius? No, clearly not; pretty damned smart where he needs to be? For sure.

Dude is a knob when it comes to hoops in general, but don't sell him short on being smart. If it were that easy, everyone would be a billionaire.

I think I need to vomit now as I can't believe I stuck up for ol' Bob $arver. Holy hell, I need some mouthwash.

He's not a billionaire. His net worth is like $800K, but probabaly almost all of that is Suns equity or Real Estate equity. Probably not too liquid.

Hopefully he makes a lot more money now on the team with gambling and a contender and all that, but I think he's still pretty cheap at heart. I think he has the same mentality as many here where he will see a stinker game here and there and refuse to pay him.

I mean he's refused to pay people for less (ie, Joe Johnson on an extension).

He's close enough that the point of him being smart in things OUTSIDE of basketball holds weight. There's no question he's a skinflint cheapass and that's in his core. He's a banker after all and his interest is to make money, not lose it. That's why we've suffered through long stretches of mediocrity when we didn't have to as there were players available and our money is just as green as it is elsewhere. The difference is that his reputation as a narcissist and cheapskate is what's kept free agents away.

[Slim Charless]

4th: Robert Sarver is not a genius....in anything....ever. If he tells you the sky is blue, then you should go look outside your window, just to make sure.

Uh.... he's a billionaire last I checked. That doesn't come without some pretty savvy skills and business moxie. Genius? No, clearly not; pretty damned smart where he needs to be? For sure.

Dude is a knob when it comes to hoops in general, but don't sell him short on being smart. If it were that easy, everyone would be a billionaire.

I think I need to vomit now as I can't believe I stuck up for ol' Bob $arver. Holy hell, I need some mouthwash.

He's not a billionaire. His net worth is like $800K, but probabaly almost all of that is Suns equity or Real Estate equity. Probably not too liquid.

Hopefully he makes a lot more money now on the team with gambling and a contender and all that, but I think he's still pretty cheap at heart. I think he has the same mentality as many here where he will see a stinker game here and there and refuse to pay him.

I mean he's refused to pay people for less (ie, Joe Johnson on an extension).

Yup. He's 1 of the poorer NBA owners, by a fair amount too. He's no billionaire and I'd wager that CP3 might be closing in on him money wise. He's made over 500M not including endorsements. Booker's girlfriend also might be worth more. Her sister almost certainly can buy and sell $arver.

Either way, the money that he does have, I'm not even sure he earned it. Didn't his dad make the fortune and Booby was just the 1st born, so he got it all......?

[SkyBill40]

Uh.... he's a billionaire last I checked. That doesn't come without some pretty savvy skills and business moxie. Genius? No, clearly not; pretty damned smart where he needs to be? For sure.

Dude is a knob when it comes to hoops in general, but don't sell him short on being smart. If it were that easy, everyone would be a billionaire.

I think I need to vomit now as I can't believe I stuck up for ol' Bob $arver. Holy hell, I need some mouthwash.

He's not a billionaire. His net worth is like $800K, but probabaly almost all of that is Suns equity or Real Estate equity. Probably not too liquid.

Hopefully he makes a lot more money now on the team with gambling and a contender and all that, but I think he's still pretty cheap at heart. I think he has the same mentality as many here where he will see a stinker game here and there and refuse to pay him.

I mean he's refused to pay people for less (ie, Joe Johnson on an extension).

Yup. He's 1 of the poorer NBA owners, by a fair amount too. He's no billionaire and I'd wager that CP3 might be closing in on him money wise. He's made over 500M not including endorsements. Booker's girlfriend also might be worth more. Her sister almost certainly can buy and sell $arver.

Either way, the money that he does have, I'm not even sure he earned it. Didn't his dad make the fortune and Booby was just the 1st born, so he got it all......?

I don't care enough to go that far into his financial history to be honest.

[Slim Charless]

Biyombo might be able to offer as much Ayton does in the playoffs. He has a somewhat decent looking floater from the FT area.

And he plays with enough energy to make up for some of the skill difference between Ayton and Biyombo.

I’d rather have Biyombo or Robinson on a 3 yr $18M deal than Ayton on a 4 yr $150M deal.

Ayton had a nice 9 game stretch in the playoffs. Great. Is that a one time fluke or can he repeat in the playoffs again? Remains to be seen.

But right now, after 72 games played in the regular season, Robert Sarver is looking like an absolute genius for not giving him the max that many were disappointed to see Ayton not get.

Ayton should’ve been averaging crazy numbers like 40 and 15 in these games without Booker or CP3. 25 and 10 in the games with just Booker. But he hasn’t been anywhere close to it.

1st: Mitchell is getting wayyyyy more than 6/yr he's gonna get like 18 a year most likely.

2nd: Ayton can't pass the ball to himself so he can't very well average 40 a game if they don't feed him. He had 10 shots tonights and yes a few didn't go in so, they didn't go to him anymore.

3rd: His "nice 9 game stretch".....was actually historical-as in no one had that level of production with little shots. All while playing fantastic D.

4th: Robert Sarver is not a genius....in anything....ever. If he tells you the sky is blue, then you should go look outside your window, just to make sure.

1st: I highly doubt that man. Robinson isn’t that highly regarded lol and most people have the opinion that bigs are becoming more and more obsolete in this game unless they can produce Embiid/Jokic type production. Bam Adebayo is a very good C for example and I’ve seen many people talk about how incredibly overpaid he is because he’s on a max contract too I think.

Robinson might get $10M/yr at most, anything more than that would surprise me.

2nd: I agree a bit but there are many instances where he gets the ball and he looks to pass without even thinking about shooting. He had a play in the Portland game where a 6’5 benchwarmer is the only one near him and he doesn’t even look at the rim and instead passes the ball eventually resulting in a turnover. Guys are gonna be more hesitant to pass him the ball when they know he’s just gonna pass it back to them, it’s wasting time. Only time he really goes up for a shot is the 2-3 times he establishes position in the paint or a lob.

This is the play I’m taking about:

Spoiler:

[streamable] https://streamable.com/d2xg2z[/streamable]

3rd: I don’t disagree at all there. He was dominant in the playoffs and a major problem for other teams. But it was still like a 20 game stretch. If he can play like that again then sure yeah I’d say his up and down play in the reg season doesn’t matter.

4th: I edited and added James Jones in there since it seems like he wasn’t comfortable committing to Ayton without seeing another season either.

I don't blame JJ as I think it's all Booby pulling the strings off cheapness. But to the point, I've mentioned in threads before is people need to take a second and go look at DA's stats this season. He's having an incredibly efficient year while once again being an after thought by our guards. He's actually playing fantastic (tonight aside) along with his usual solid D.

You guys keep thinking that the likes Biyombo and McGee can do what DA does. You're crazy. He's 1 of the more versatile bigs in the league along with being completely selfless and doing the dirty work while being happy with 10 targets a game.

Again, Sarver is a fool and the mere idea that he wants something should tell you thatnhes wrong.

[darealjuice]

I just look at centers like running backs in the NFL. If they aren't a top tier player like Joel Embiid or Nikola Jokic, you're better off spending that money elsewhere and filling the center rotation with veterans and young players with something to play for. There's only so much money to go around, and I think finding a way to use that money on our post-CP3 point guard makes more sense in today's game. I might feel different if we had a young point guard (like Haliburton) waiting to take over though.

Not denying Ayton's impact on the team, just not sure it stacks up to other players in that pay range.

I totally agree with this but I'd still have a hard time just letting him walk for nothing. I don't think if he got a max it would be viewed as a negative contract by all teams.

Definitely not saying I would let him walk for nothing. We have to keep him until the right trade opportunity arises if we don’t see him as part of the long term plan.