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Game 64: Phoenix Suns (51-12) @ Milwaukee Bucks (39-25) | Sunday | 1.30pm AZT | ABC

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Re: Game 64: Phoenix Suns (51-12) @ Milwaukee Bucks (39-25) | Sunday | 1.30pm AZT | ABC 

Post#321 » by bwgood77 » Mon Mar 7, 2022 11:22 pm

lilfishi22 wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Spoiler:
You realize that he wouldn't really need to much else right?? I mean rebounding is one of our biggest continuing weaknesses. He's got size at 6'9 254 lbs, is still a strong and aggressive (For Napolean II) :wink: defender, with good mobility and still a solid post defender too. He has a career defensive rating of 109. and Mikals' is 108 this season currently. So even though he's not an elite rim protector, he's still strong, fast with good size. BUT most importantly he'd address our critical rebounding issues. And that's the premise of his value to us. Anything beyond that is a minimal consideration for us. So in that he specifically addresses those key issues to an elite level, Yes, I do believe he would get playing time. Especially with Johnson out too, And rebounding always makes a difference obviously as it cuts opposing teams' repeat possessions down preventing them from multiple offensive opportunities like the ones that have repetitively bitten us big time. IF we could secure more possessions, then we could better control the tempo and momentum of games. Possibly allowing greater opportunities to rest key players too (IF needed). :nod:

You see, it's my perspective that once a team becomes dominant or elite enough to legitimately contend for a championship, You then fill out your bench ( 2nd and 3rd rotations) with specific utility players and glue guys with specific skillsets to address situational matchups and potential roster weaknesses in support of the starters ( star players etc). For example:
Payne- Playmaking/ bench scoring.
Holiday- 3rd rotation utility microwave scorer/ playmaker.
Shamet- Utility perimeter shooting.
Craig- Utility wing defense/ cutting.
Johnson- Frontcourt floor spacing/ utility scorer off bench.
Mcgee- Rim protection/ post defense/ length off the bench.
Biyombo- Utility big/ post pick n roll defense/ rim protection off bench.
Each of these players has a specific role and situational use due to their skillset and abilities. Thompson would be no different in that premise as his specific situational role would be to bolster our frontcourt rebounding (WEAKNESS) especially offensive rebounding against those teams strong in that category that have continuously killed us there. So he'd definitely have a role with us to our benefit in that area. I still like Biyombo too though. And really want him to play because of his energy, rim protection, and switchable defense. Maybe just drop Payton now that Payne's back, Holiday has been very solid, and Paul and Booker will eventually be back too. Now again, Having said that, I would've much rather (after securing Biyombo) had us get a strong rebounding/ defensive oriented 3rd wing. Alize Johnson, KZ Ozpala, Jarell Brantley, Tyler Bey(two way option), Mamadi Diakite, Eugene Omoruyi, Amir Simms, Reggie Perry, Kenny Whooten, Andre Roberson, or Emanuelle Terry?? Could be the 3rd rotation wing to replace Hutchinsons' spot. And could be used situationally against stronger rebounding teams?

I won't spend a ton of time on this since TT is not available but the premise is that the Suns have an offensive rebounding issue and you could extend that to say our total rebounding could improve too. Thompson is very good at one thing but hasn't been good enough to get extended minutes on the floor. Playing Thompson 5-10mpg off the bench to grab 2-3 offensive rebounds isn't really going to solve our offensive rebounding problem because it's a game long issue. And the simple fact that we have Biyombo, who's a marginally worse offensive rebounder than Thompson makes the suggestion of Thompson an even more pointless one.

It would be like asking Payton to solve a playmaking issue by playing him 10mpg...he can be good at making plays but you're not really moving the needle there when the team would still have an issue in the 38 other minutes of the game and you give up shooting. I'm not opposed to dropping Payton and adding someone like the guys you've mentioned but I'm not under the impression that any of them would solve our issues.

The real change would come in the way a refocus of our defensive scheme. The Suns are one of the best transition teams in the league, offensively and defensively. We're ranked #2 on offensive transition PPP and and #3 on defensive transition PPP. If we focus more on gang rebounding on the offensive end, have Ayton and others box out for other guys to rebound, we'll secure more offensive boards. It's that simple. But we'll very likely give up more transition points. The Suns are a relatively small team, we're not especially physical and primarily playing Cam and Crowder at the 4 because we have chosen to prioritise overall team defense and shooting over trying to grab a ton of offensive rebounds. We play the game that maximises the strengths of our personnel. And while we're not good on the offensive boards (#22 OREB%), we're #2 in FG%, #5 in 3P%, #3 in ORTG, #3 in DRTG, #1 in net rating, #7 in AST%, #13 in REB%. We can't be good at EVERYTHING

We have an offensive rebounding issue but it won't be solved by a 9th,10th, 11th man. And the question remains, if you play Thompson those minutes, who are you NOT playing instead? Cam? Crowder? McGee? Craig? And what are you giving up to play Thompson?


If a guy can't shoot, just because he is good at one thing we may need, it's not going to make our team better because he will hurt us in other areas. Do you take time from Cam to play at PF? Play instead of Ayton?

Either makes us worse.

I didn't read all these posts outside of a few sentences but I see it's a debate on a guy like Tristan Thompson helping us. He wouldn't help us (I imagine I agree with you fish) . We have far better players he would take minutes from. No teams get THAT many more offensive rebounds than us on average though.

Memphis gets by far the most....but most of the top teams in OREB are not great teams...probably because it's teams that miss a lot of shots.

Boston is the next really good team on the rankings, at 10th, with 10.7 per game. We are at 9.7, ahead of GS, both LA teams, DAL, DEN, PHI and CHI. The Knicks are actually 5th so that is one of their big strengths.

For opponent OREBs, the worst team allows 12 per game (Clips) and the best team allows 9.1 (Portland) with 2nd best 9.4. We allow 10.6....pretty much the middle...so it's really not THAT bad of weakness overall for the season.
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Re: Game 64: Phoenix Suns (51-12) @ Milwaukee Bucks (39-25) | Sunday | 1.30pm AZT | ABC 

Post#322 » by Jesus_H_Macy » Tue Mar 8, 2022 12:58 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
Jesus_H_Macy wrote:
Puff wrote:What happened to our DPOTY. He was schooled in last years finals as well as today. Is his one on one defense really that good? I know he gets his hands on a lot of balls and seems to be everywhere at times. However it seems to me that his one on one defense is not always that great. We needed someone to stop or at least slow down Middleton today as well as last years finals. I think that was Mikal's man. Of course the refs did not help our cause, to say the least.


I always forget until we play them, but Middleton is freakin’ huge. He was standing next to Ibaka and they’re the same size, and he’s got a huge wingspan. He’s a pretty unique player. I don’t think Mikal is strong enough or long enough to really guard him effectively. Mikal is a 1-3 defender IMO, can cover the occasional 4 in today’s NBA but not consistently. I don’t know who we should have guarding Middleton…maybe Crowder and Craig? Crowder probably too slow though, and since Mil plays so big we need those guys on Giannis and Portis. I’d be interested in seeing Wainwright on him a bit. Holiday is also too strong for Mikal, but Mikal is still long enough to bother him. Mil is a tough matchup for us. I think more than any other one thing the Suns need to figure out how to punish them when they go big on us and force them to play Middleton at 3 or 4 to keep up

Yeah Middleton has great size sized for his position. The guy has a 6-10 wingspan, strong, very skilled and while he doesn't take as many mid range shots as Booker, he's one of the better midrange shooters in the league. Pair that with a capable 3pt shot, finishing at the rim and underrated passing ability and he's a TOUGH cover for anyone. I agree that against these big physical wings, you should put guys like Craig, Crowder and Cam on them.


Good call, I totally spaced JamJo. I think he's got the combo of strength and speed to keep Middleton honest at least. Any chance you (or anyone else reading) remembers if we had Cam on Middleton the prior game? Not sure how to look up stats that track that kind of thing.
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Re: Game 64: Phoenix Suns (51-12) @ Milwaukee Bucks (39-25) | Sunday | 1.30pm AZT | ABC 

Post#323 » by Ghost of Kleine » Tue Mar 8, 2022 1:13 am

Is there even anyone still unsigned that could be a consideration as a larger multipositional defensive wing option? I believe that Wainwright would be more than strong enough. But he still can't even play for us in the playoffs right ( because of his two way status)?

Of the still unsigned bigger wing forwards that are still unsigned and could be added for the minimum, The best multipositional defensive wing forward options available to us would be:
Andre Roberson, Jarell Brantley, Troy Baxter Jr, Donta Hall, Cameron Mcgriff, Mamadi Diakite, Noah Vonleh, Kenny Whooten, KZ Okpala, Tre Scott ( mini Siakim)!! All would be very solid options for our 3rd rotation wing/ Big forward option and for situational matchups against teams with bigger, bulkier dominant wings.
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Re: Game 64: Phoenix Suns (51-12) @ Milwaukee Bucks (39-25) | Sunday | 1.30pm AZT | ABC 

Post#324 » by Ghost of Kleine » Tue Mar 8, 2022 1:58 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Spoiler:
You realize that he wouldn't really need to much else right?? I mean rebounding is one of our biggest continuing weaknesses. He's got size at 6'9 254 lbs, is still a strong and aggressive (For Napolean II) :wink: defender, with good mobility and still a solid post defender too. He has a career defensive rating of 109. and Mikals' is 108 this season currently. So even though he's not an elite rim protector, he's still strong, fast with good size. BUT most importantly he'd address our critical rebounding issues. And that's the premise of his value to us. Anything beyond that is a minimal consideration for us. So in that he specifically addresses those key issues to an elite level, Yes, I do believe he would get playing time. Especially with Johnson out too, And rebounding always makes a difference obviously as it cuts opposing teams' repeat possessions down preventing them from multiple offensive opportunities like the ones that have repetitively bitten us big time. IF we could secure more possessions, then we could better control the tempo and momentum of games. Possibly allowing greater opportunities to rest key players too (IF needed). :nod:

You see, it's my perspective that once a team becomes dominant or elite enough to legitimately contend for a championship, You then fill out your bench ( 2nd and 3rd rotations) with specific utility players and glue guys with specific skillsets to address situational matchups and potential roster weaknesses in support of the starters ( star players etc). For example:
Payne- Playmaking/ bench scoring.
Holiday- 3rd rotation utility microwave scorer/ playmaker.
Shamet- Utility perimeter shooting.
Craig- Utility wing defense/ cutting.
Johnson- Frontcourt floor spacing/ utility scorer off bench.
Mcgee- Rim protection/ post defense/ length off the bench.
Biyombo- Utility big/ post pick n roll defense/ rim protection off bench.
Each of these players has a specific role and situational use due to their skillset and abilities. Thompson would be no different in that premise as his specific situational role would be to bolster our frontcourt rebounding (WEAKNESS) especially offensive rebounding against those teams strong in that category that have continuously killed us there. So he'd definitely have a role with us to our benefit in that area. I still like Biyombo too though. And really want him to play because of his energy, rim protection, and switchable defense. Maybe just drop Payton now that Payne's back, Holiday has been very solid, and Paul and Booker will eventually be back too. Now again, Having said that, I would've much rather (after securing Biyombo) had us get a strong rebounding/ defensive oriented 3rd wing. Alize Johnson, KZ Ozpala, Jarell Brantley, Tyler Bey(two way option), Mamadi Diakite, Eugene Omoruyi, Amir Simms, Reggie Perry, Kenny Whooten, Andre Roberson, or Emanuelle Terry?? Could be the 3rd rotation wing to replace Hutchinsons' spot. And could be used situationally against stronger rebounding teams?

I won't spend a ton of time on this since TT is not available but the premise is that the Suns have an offensive rebounding issue and you could extend that to say our total rebounding could improve too. Thompson is very good at one thing but hasn't been good enough to get extended minutes on the floor. Playing Thompson 5-10mpg off the bench to grab 2-3 offensive rebounds isn't really going to solve our offensive rebounding problem because it's a game long issue. And the simple fact that we have Biyombo, who's a marginally worse offensive rebounder than Thompson makes the suggestion of Thompson an even more pointless one.

It would be like asking Payton to solve a playmaking issue by playing him 10mpg...he can be good at making plays but you're not really moving the needle there when the team would still have an issue in the 38 other minutes of the game and you give up shooting. I'm not opposed to dropping Payton and adding someone like the guys you've mentioned but I'm not under the impression that any of them would solve our issues.

The real change would come in the way a refocus of our defensive scheme. The Suns are one of the best transition teams in the league, offensively and defensively. We're ranked #2 on offensive transition PPP and and #3 on defensive transition PPP. If we focus more on gang rebounding on the offensive end, have Ayton and others box out for other guys to rebound, we'll secure more offensive boards. It's that simple. But we'll very likely give up more transition points. The Suns are a relatively small team, we're not especially physical and primarily playing Cam and Crowder at the 4 because we have chosen to prioritise overall team defense and shooting over trying to grab a ton of offensive rebounds. We play the game that maximises the strengths of our personnel. And while we're not good on the offensive boards (#22 OREB%), we're #2 in FG%, #5 in 3P%, #3 in ORTG, #3 in DRTG, #1 in net rating, #7 in AST%, #13 in REB%. We can't be good at EVERYTHING

We have an offensive rebounding issue but it won't be solved by a 9th,10th, 11th man. And the question remains, if you play Thompson those minutes, who are you NOT playing instead? Cam? Crowder? McGee? Craig? And what are you giving up to play Thompson?


That's fine. As I agree that you have to give up something in any scheme. Let's see how that plays out for us in the playoffs when things slow down to a grind. All in all, I'm not disappointed that we didn't sign Thompson once we signed Biyombo. Other than the fact that he too ( much like Smith) doesn't play much at all. IF Biyombo played more, perhaps he could help in that aspect ( rebounding) for us. But you can't do much/ impact much from the bench.

As for addressing it as a team, when is a good time to start addressing it, as the season's already a 3rd of the way finished. And it's been an ongoing issue since the finals last season. Do we expect to really maintain those transition point percentages when Paul returns and we return to more of a halfcourt offensive scheme? Do we really expect to maintain this transition percentage when the playoffs begin and teams really slow things down and lock in defensively?? Also when we play teams with strong 3 point/ perimeter shooting and surrender multiple opportunities per possession. How will that bode for our chances of winning then? Does not every possession become more important in the playoffs. Also for all those commending this premise and saying that it's not that big of an issue, look at our 13 losses. How many of those did we happen to be outrebounded by the other team in? That's a pattern for success against us! Kind of like how other teams know that they can get to the rim against us on penetration with minimal resistance because we're just not a physically ( sorry Napoleon) dominant team. be interesting to see how we do under this premise soon I'd wager.
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Re: Game 64: Phoenix Suns (51-12) @ Milwaukee Bucks (39-25) | Sunday | 1.30pm AZT | ABC 

Post#325 » by lilfishi22 » Tue Mar 8, 2022 2:03 am

I hate to poo poo your suggestions Ghost because you clearly put effort into it but we already have a multidimensional defensive wing, Torrey Craig. Might as well convert Wainwright
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Re: Game 64: Phoenix Suns (51-12) @ Milwaukee Bucks (39-25) | Sunday | 1.30pm AZT | ABC 

Post#326 » by Ghost of Kleine » Tue Mar 8, 2022 2:36 am

lilfishi22 wrote:I hate to poo poo your suggestions Ghost because you clearly put effort into it but we already have a multidimensional defensive wing, Torrey Craig. Might as well convert Wainwright


I love Craig, he's great defensively. And I fully agree with you that we should convert Wainwright, as he's just so strong that he should be able to cover the bulkier wings for us in that regard IF CONVERTED. But as good as both are, We really do need to consider adding greater size, length, athleticism on the wing for those teams that present problems for us with those longer, bigger, bulkier wings. Johnson should definitely help some with his size. Especially if we could work on crisper defensive rotations outside of double teams. But whomever we lose in the offseason, we would do well to increase our size, length, athleticism on the perimeter for sure. :nod:

As a championship team, I realize that we can't be perfect at everything. But nevertheless, we should strive to shore up any deficiencies whenever possible and concede nothing willingly to opponents. Lest we offer up a blueprint to beat us by taking advantage of those weaknesses.
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Re: Game 64: Phoenix Suns (51-12) @ Milwaukee Bucks (39-25) | Sunday | 1.30pm AZT | ABC 

Post#327 » by lilfishi22 » Tue Mar 8, 2022 2:36 am

Ghost of Kleine wrote:As for addressing it as a team, when is a good time to start addressing it, as the season's already a 3rd of the way finished. And it's been an ongoing issue since the finals last season. Do we expect to really maintain those transition point percentages when Paul returns and we return to more of a halfcourt offensive team? Do we expect to maintain this scheme when the playoffs begin and teams really slow things down and lock in defensively?? It'll be interesting to see how we do under this premise soon I'd wager.

We're just not going to make wholesale changes to address one area of weakness on our team. We did what we can in the offseason to address it by signing a gritty vet in McGee to add size, rebounding and defense. You play a twin tower lineup to "fix" our offensive rebouunding issue and we lose speed, we lose shooting and we lose siwtchablility. And why would we go away from what we do well to play to the opposing team's strength? In pick up, if you play against a bigger, stronger team, do you try and play in the post against them? No you rely on speed, cuts and pick them apart with PnR's.

As I mentioned in my post and I'm not sure if you fully understand my point but the only way to address the issue is if we fundamentally change the make up of the roster or the offensive/defensive philosophy we play with. And by fundamentally change I mean swapping out our 3 and 4 for stronger offensive rebounders at those positions, swap Ayton for a Gobert/Capela type and we crash the boards on the majority of our missed shots while giving up transition buckets. Against a good defensive team, you want easy transition buckets where you can get it.

Also FYI the transition stats are based on the entire season where Chris Paul has played in all but the last 6. We're an elite transition team WITH Chris Paul.
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Re: Game 64: Phoenix Suns (51-12) @ Milwaukee Bucks (39-25) | Sunday | 1.30pm AZT | ABC 

Post#328 » by Ghost of Kleine » Tue Mar 8, 2022 3:18 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:As for addressing it as a team, when is a good time to start addressing it, as the season's already a 3rd of the way finished. And it's been an ongoing issue since the finals last season. Do we expect to really maintain those transition point percentages when Paul returns and we return to more of a halfcourt offensive team? Do we expect to maintain this scheme when the playoffs begin and teams really slow things down and lock in defensively?? It'll be interesting to see how we do under this premise soon I'd wager.


We're just not going to make wholesale changes to address one area of weakness on our team. We did what we can in the offseason to address it by signing a gritty vet in McGee to add size, rebounding and defense. You play a twin tower lineup to "fix" our offensive rebouunding issue and we lose speed, we lose shooting and we lose siwtchablility. And why would we go away from what we do well to play to the opposing team's strength? In pick up, if you play against a bigger, stronger team, do you try and play in the post against them? No you rely on speed, cuts and pick them apart with PnR's.

As I mentioned in my post and I'm not sure if you fully understand my point but the only way to address the issue is if we fundamentally change the make up of the roster or the offensive/defensive philosophy we play with. And by fundamentally change I mean swapping out our 3 and 4 for stronger offensive rebounders at those positions, swap Ayton for a Gobert/Capela type and we crash the boards on the majority of our missed shots while giving up transition buckets. Against a good defensive team, you want easy transition buckets where you can get it.

Also FYI the transition stats are based on the entire season where Chris Paul has played in all but the last 6. We're an elite transition team WITH Chris Paul.


I believe I understand your perspective, although I'm not sure that I can agree with it. In regards to the "The twin towers" premise, Ayton is one of the quickest, fluid young bigs currently in the NBA. McGee admittedly not so much, but Biyombo is fairly spry and with boundless energy to boot too. So I believe that we could still get back IF properly engaged. Even aside from that though, our wings and guards could still pick up transition, allowing our bugs to catch up IF necessary!
You talk about making wholesale changes and being forced to fundamentally change our roster makeup. But isn't rebounding as a team and addressing fundamentals such as BOXING OUT possible without having to drastically change our roster. Obviously on rare occasions, we've had instances of rebounding as a team and actually boxing out too and had great success at that without roster transition. So I'm not sure how drastically altering our roster becomes a necessity in this premise? As you yourself so eloquently pointed out in a previous post, perhaps our rebounding issues can be addressed by rebounding as a team. Is that not still a reasonable possibility? Also a few points:

- If we add one strong rebounding wing/ forward, is it not possible that they can set the standard for the rest of the team to buy in an rebound? Do teams not have a singular defensive glue guy or defensive initiator/ connector that gets the team engaged on possessions? A lot of teams have that individual that gets their team fired up by solid rebounding and defensive plays. Getting their teammates involved by their plays. And get their teammates to buy in defensively. So drastic/ fundamental changes to a roster are not really a necessity.

I mean of course I get the premise of giving up the rebound to get back on defense and setup. However, in that premise we're constantly surrendering multiple opportunities for opposing teams to not only score, cut deficits and get into an offensive rhythm, But also by not rebounding, we put ourselves in positions for those teams to draw larger volume of fouls on us during those putback attempts. This of course stops the clock anyways and reduces momentum whilst allowing those teams to get their defenses set against anyways. It just seems like a fruitless endeavor to me for us to surrender multiple possessions and excessive free throw generation by not doing something as simple as boxing out or rebounding as a team, simply in interest of pace. Which may currently play to our advantage in the regular season. But how many playoffs have fast paced, uptempo teams been successful? How many playoffs have teams not slowed the pa e down and dominated in the halfcourt through their defense and controlling the rebounding?

I hope that you're right, and our rebounding weaknesses won't get exposed by opposing teams for multiple possessions and fostering scoring rhythm and collecting easy free throw opportunities. Lastly, I hope that you're right that we can continue to push the pace as an uptempo transition team successfully all the way to the finals. For now, with the utmost respect, we'll have differing perspectives. And aee how things unfold??
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Re: Game 64: Phoenix Suns (51-12) @ Milwaukee Bucks (39-25) | Sunday | 1.30pm AZT | ABC 

Post#329 » by lilfishi22 » Tue Mar 8, 2022 5:43 am

Ghost of Kleine wrote:I believe I understand your perspective, although I'm not sure that I can agree with it. In regards to the "The twin towers" premise, Ayton is one of the quickest, fluid young bigs currently in the NBA. McGee admittedly not so much, but Biyombo is fairly spry and with boundless energy to boot too. So I believe that we could still get back IF properly engaged. Even aside from that though, our wings and guards could still pick up transition, allowing our bugs to catch up IF necessary!
You talk about making wholesale changes and being forced to fundamentally change our roster makeup. But isn't rebounding as a team and addressing fundamentals such as BOXING OUT possible without having to drastically change our roster. Obviously on rare occasions, we've had instances of rebounding as a team and actually boxing out too and had great success at that without roster transition. So I'm not sure how drastically altering our roster becomes a necessity in this premise? As you yourself so eloquently pointed out in a previous post, perhaps our rebounding issues can be addressed by rebounding as a team. Is that not still a reasonable possibility?

It's a possibility. More effort, more boxing out, more crashing of the boards sure, we could potentially turn it from a weakness into a non-weakness (but not a strength). But for every player that is in there trying to crash the boards or box out, we have one less player running back on defense. You're also asking our guys, who aren't especially big to outrebound bigger, stronger and more physical players. To me, getting offensive rebounds isn't really a priority for the team as you can see from the way we play and what we prioritise and I tend to agree that putting your teams effort and energy towards trying to increase our offensive rebounding rate when we don't have the personnel for it is kind of a waste. I'm not saying we shouldn't do it all or abandon all offensive rebounding opportunities but increasing our offensive rebounding really isn't a priority. As I mentioned before, our team isn't built to "bang" in the paint. Ayton doesn't really do it as he's more of an athletic jumper like McGee. Crowder/Bridges/Cam are primarily perimeter players, CP3/Book are mid range guys and McGee is also a long, athletic jumper rather than using size and strength to box out like a Steven Adams.

- If we add one strong rebounding wing/ forward, is it not possible that they can set the standard for the rest of the team to buy in an rebound? Do teams not have a singular defensive glue guy or defensive initiator/ connector that gets the team engaged on possessions? A lot of teams have that individual that gets their team fired up by solid rebounding and defensive plays. Getting their teammates involved by their plays. And get their teammates to buy in defensively. So drastic/ fundamental changes to a roster are not really a necessity.
Biyombo is that guy. McGee is that guy. Craig is that guy. These are all energy guys who comes in, brings the level of energy and hustle up and we just do our best on the boards. We don't need some G-Leaguer to join the team for that. And who exactly are you going to bench in order to play this g-leaguer? We lost in the Finals not because we lacked energy. We lost because we just didn't have enough size and defence to get a stop when we needed one. Aside from G3, we were in every game and that's with us being outrebounded. The Suns are an elite contender because we take care of the ball, we execute on both ends of the floor and we are a top 4 defensive rebounding team. Jones did what he can to address the size and rebounding issue and this season we're 20th in offensive rebounding, 4th in defensive rebounding and 9th overall in total rebounds. This is a considerable improvement from last season when we were 28th in offensive rebounding, 18th in defensive rebounding and 23rd overall in total rebounds. Unless you swap out 1 or 2 starters, who play significant minutes for guys who are really good at rebounding, we're not going to improve much more than that.

I mean of course I get the premise of giving up the rebound to get back on defense and setup. However, in that premise we're constantly surrendering multiple opportunities for opposing teams to not only score, cut deficits and get into an offensive rhythm, But also by not rebounding, we put ourselves in positions for those teams to draw larger volume of fouls on us during those putback attempts. This of course stops the clock anyways and reduces momentum whilst allowing those teams to get their defenses set against anyways. It just seems like a fruitless endeavor to me for us to surrender multiple possessions and excessive free throw generation by not doing something as simple as boxing out or rebounding as a team, simply in interest of pace. Which may currently play to our advantage in the regular season. But how many playoffs have fast paced, uptempo teams been successful? How many playoffs have teams not slowed the pa e down and dominated in the halfcourt through their defense and controlling the rebounding?
As I've said before, you can't be great at everything. We prioritised what we we're good at and that's transition scoring, offensive execution and playing elite defense. Our focus is offensive execution, not offensive rebounding.

I hope that you're right, and our rebounding weaknesses won't get exposed by opposing teams for multiple possessions and fostering scoring rhythm and collecting easy free throw opportunities. Lastly, I hope that you're right that we can continue to push the pace as an uptempo transition team successfully all the way to the finals. For now, with the utmost respect, we'll have differing perspectives. And aee how things unfold??
There's always going to be SOMETHING that gets exploited. It's whether that exploit is bad enough to lose a 7 game series. In the Finals, we were in every game aside from G3. We couldn't quite get the defensive stops when we needed it, we needed to do a better job of securing our own rebounds and we needed to execute on offensive.

I remember in the SSOL days, when we were built specifically to run and gun lead by Nash, opposing teams would try and run with us but they neither had the personnel nor the schemes required to try and beat us at our own game. The SSOL Suns wouldn't have gone past the 1st round if they tried to beat other teams at their strengths.
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Re: Game 64: Phoenix Suns (51-12) @ Milwaukee Bucks (39-25) | Sunday | 1.30pm AZT | ABC 

Post#330 » by Puff » Tue Mar 8, 2022 6:19 am

The untouchables - "Mikal and Ayton"
      "Vogel has no spine. Booker and Durant do whatever they want on this team and just continue make stupid decisions iso-ball and basically doing whatever they feel like out there. We need a coach with balls."

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