NBA PLAYOFFS: Game 3 - (1) Phoenix Suns @ (8) New Orleans Pelicans l Friday l 7:30pm MST (9:30 EST) l ESPN l Series 1-1

[Saberestar]

Crowder is so bad but a win is a win! Big game Sunday

Don't you think that Crowder contributed a lot to win this game?

As an example of his value (other than talking about his bad percentages from 3) you can analyze some of his defense and intangibles.

IIRC he got a charge foul from Valanciunas in the paint, another one from Alvarado in a moving screen, another one from Ingram or Valanciunas in the 4th on another moving screen and he got the ejection from Hayes taking advantage of his immaturity.

So he got (at least) four charges. That's huge and some of them changed momentum in the game.

[sunsbg]

Crowder is so bad but a win is a win! Big game Sunday

Don't you think that Crowder contributed a lot to win this game?

As an example of his value (other than talking about his bad percentages from 3) you can analyze some of his defense and intangibles.

IIRC he got a charge foul from Valanciunas in the paint, another one from Alvarado in a moving screen, another one from Ingram or Valanciunas in the 4th on another moving screen and he got the ejection from Hayes taking advantage of his immaturity.

So he got (at least) four charges. That's huge and some of them changed momentum in the game.

He also made two timely baskets in the 4th from what I remember. One after offensive rebound and the 3 they downgraded to a 2. Hopefully that's a sign he's getting out of the slump.

[IamBBAnalysis]

Crowder is so bad but a win is a win! Big game Sunday

Don't you think that Crowder contributed a lot to win this game?

As an example of his value (other than talking about his bad percentages from 3) you can analyze some of his defense and intangibles.

IIRC he got a charge foul from Valanciunas in the paint, another one from Alvarado in a moving screen, another one from Ingram or Valanciunas in the 4th on another moving screen and he got the ejection from Hayes taking advantage of his immaturity.

So he got (at least) four charges. That's huge and some of them changed momentum in the game.

He also made two timely baskets in the 4th from what I remember. One after offensive rebound and the 3 they downgraded to a 2. Hopefully that's a sign he's getting out of the slump.

Crowder was better this game. He still can't shoot but he didn't force as much and he was effective on defense and on the boards.

[Revived]

Please no more Shamet.. Payne is getting unplayable, too. Still waiting for everyone to make shots.. that will open up everything. Ayton was amazing today. He needs to play like that every game. Chris Paul is unreal. I seriously did not know he was this good. We are lucky to have him. Win on Sunday and take care of business in Phoenix for game 5. Let’s go!!!


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All well and good but every time someone has a few bad games and they are pronounced unplayable, you're going to end up with only 5 playable players or go back to the guy you think is unplayable.

The "no more Player X" sentiment is a nice thought experiment but ultimately not sustainable unless you have a guy who's as good if not better than the peak form of the guy that isn't playable. If you play Holiday over Payne and he has a couple of bad TO's and missing shots then what? Play Elf? Lundberg? Lower their minutes or rebalance it if you must but at some point you have to put trust in your rotation guys you've run with all season long to get out of their funk because simply not playing them means there's no opportunity for return to form.

Holliday isn’t a whole lot better offensive player than Payne but at least Holliday plays very good defense whenever he’s out on the court. I watched off ball today and Payne is disastrous defensively and Pelicans entire philosophy when he was in the game was to attack him. Willie Green must have thought very poorly of his defense even when he was here.

Payne is just giving us nothing both offensively and defensively. Actually it’s worse, he’s hurting us on both ends.

He had a chip in the bubble and last year of trying to prove people wrong and staying in the league after having been bounced out of it and forced to play overseas. Now after getting paid, he’s lost that chip completely. This season, he’s back to being the trash Payne that he was for most of his NBA career.

I think him getting some DNPs will give him that chip again to show he can be a rotation player in the league. Then maybe later on we can give him a chance again and he’ll do well.

Payne just seems like that type of player who needs the additional motivation and drive to actually play well or otherwise he just goes out there and does nothing.

He’s also one of the many players who continue to show why guaranteed contracts is such a dumb concept in the NBA…players immediately quit giving a ***k after signing that extension and no longer work on their game to improve and instead being complacent. Imo, contracts should only be guaranteed for injury.

[IamBBAnalysis]

Please no more Shamet.. Payne is getting unplayable, too. Still waiting for everyone to make shots.. that will open up everything. Ayton was amazing today. He needs to play like that every game. Chris Paul is unreal. I seriously did not know he was this good. We are lucky to have him. Win on Sunday and take care of business in Phoenix for game 5. Let’s go!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Can we talk about what we are actually seeing from this team? The top guys are all playing normal or stepping up while everyone else looks like they are feeling the pressure of the playoffs and choking.

Example:

Paul, Booker, Ayton, and Bridges are fine. They seem to be playing with normal confidence and at times embracing the moment. You can throw McGee in there as well.

Cam Johnson, Payne, Crowder, and Craig all look like they are scared. They have gone from being valuable players to liabilities, especially shooting the ball.

And Shamet is the same. He still is just not that good but coach is playing him because other guys that are better than him.

You really see the problem when they swing the ball and take a 3-point shot. When the ball no one looks like they even want to shoot! Are you guys confident these guys will start playing like they did in the regular season?

[IamBBAnalysis]

I just want to be clear, are there really fans that think holding CamJo out for the first 8+ minutes of the third was a smart decision? I mean seriously, how bad does Chowder have to be before he gets pulled from the starting line up? But CamJo, who at the time was shooting 50% from the field, makes complete sense to pull from the starting lineup? I feel like I am taking crazy pills.

I did not understand why Monty started Shamet to start the 2nd half. It costs us big time. The Pelicans picked on him on defense every possession in the 3rd. They got whatever they wanted on him.


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Really? It was obvious why he started him. Shamet wasn't playing scared like Johnson. Johnson is 10x the player but Shamet was playing aggressive and not like a sissy. All those talking about Crowder need to also realize Johnson is equally as bad right now.

[Revived]

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

Anyone else notice during the Shamet dunk on Hayes that it actually got the Pelicans bench excited? Literally a few of their guys got up and did whole “Oh damn wow” type thing that basically you would expect from the team of the dunker not the one getting dunked on. On video you can even see at least one of them clearly clapping after the dunk.

I’m not sure if it’s a sportsmanship thing or what but that was cool to see and I’m not sure I’ve ever seen that before. At the same time, I better never see the Suns stand up and cheer when an opposing player makes a dunk or a big play like that lmao

[pj0tr]

The Suns shot 50% from the field, while only shooting 15% from 3. That is insane. And they won lmao.

My prediction for Sunday? Regression to the mean for 3 point shooting - I am predicting a double digit win.

[sunsbg]

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

Anyone else notice during the Shamet dunk on Hayes that it actually got the Pelicans bench excited? Literally a few of their guys got up and did whole “Oh damn wow” type thing that basically you would expect from the team of the dunker not the one getting dunked on. On video you can even see at least one of them clearly clapping after the dunk.

I’m not sure if it’s a sportsmanship thing or what but that was cool to see and I’m not sure I’ve ever seen that before. At the same time, I better never see the Suns stand up and cheer when an opposing player makes a dunk or a big play like that lmao

Most likely they expected Hayes to block Shamet like he did to Mikal in the previous game. I expected it too. Clapping was pointed to a teammate most likely, just a normal reaction of a bench player, otherwise it would be weird indeed.

[bwoolf2]

Our last game against the Clippers, Shamet had 3 fouls at halftime, started the third, and picked up his fourth foul in the third. I bet I could go on and on. CamJo not starting the third because of fouls is complete horse crap.

You don't really make a counter argument to his. Monty probably values Cam J much more than Shamet, so trying to preserve him for end of game is not like doing the same with Shamet. I personally was scared Cam J was injured when he didn't start the 3rd not knowing he had 3 fouls. Now that I know it, not starting him makes some sense though starting and taking out a player on 4th foul is more common in such situation.

Dude, pointing out that Chowder had three fouls at the half during game one, and Chowder starting the third in that game, was the damn counter to his argument. Also, Monty has never done that. He always starts the same guys in the third, unless someone is injured before the half. The three fouls is not a valid excuse.

If he valued CamJo more, why play Sham 3 more minutes in the game? If Monty doesn't start CamJo, he just can't get CamJo 30+ minutes. Moreover, if he valued Cam more, he would get him more plays to get him open looks.

I know your love for Camjo exceeds all I think everyone here does but he has been awful since coming back from that injury. Has he been better than Crowder maybe but just barley. I like Cam but dude he has been terrible right along with everyone not named ayton mcgee cp and bridges. This entire team outside of those guys had been struggling for a month now.

[sunsbg]

Really? It was obvious why he started him. Shamet wasn't playing scared like Johnson. Johnson is 10x the player but Shamet was playing aggressive and not like a sissy. All those talking about Crowder need to also realize Johnson is equally as bad right now.

Monty doesn't just replace someone in the starting lineup because he's not performing well at the moment. That should be clear after all this discussion about Jae/Cam starting. Most likely it was because of the foul trouble or Cam may still have some injury issue and was not feeling well during the break. Wild guess, but I like it better than Monty favoring Shamet over him. If so why not start Landry from the beginning and cause chemistry issues by benching Cam.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

Anyone else notice during the Shamet dunk on Hayes that it actually got the Pelicans bench excited? Literally a few of their guys got up and did whole “Oh damn wow” type thing that basically you would expect from the team of the dunker not the one getting dunked on. On video you can even see at least one of them clearly clapping after the dunk.

I’m not sure if it’s a sportsmanship thing or what but that was cool to see and I’m not sure I’ve ever seen that before. At the same time, I better never see the Suns stand up and cheer when an opposing player makes a dunk or a big play like that lmao

Yep!!!
And that's cool but not totally unexpected from a young, energetic team that is excited about their first ever playoff experience AND BEATING THE #1 RANKED TEAM IN THE LEAGUE TOO ( that was our mistake not taking care of business and now they have confidence/ energy/ excitement). They're continually feeding off of the whole energy of being there and the good sportsmanship mentality that coach Willie Green ( very nice job) has instilled in them. It's really cool to see the general love of the game and special moments that are often overlooked these days!
Having said that, I really hope that we decide to take back our dominance and play up to the level of what this team was constructed to perform at.

[Ghost of Kleine]

To get this game back to Phoenix for a closeout game with holding a 3-1 lead ( critical to quash some of their confidence/ energy) we need to do three things:

1- Control the rebounds again! Which subsequently will limit/ suppress their shooting rythym and overall confidence somewhat.

2- play with actual energy and purpose. I know there's a lot of debate about fostering motivation and finding energy. But we're in the freaking playoffs! And actually playing to win the first title ever for the city and team in over half a century. if that's not motivation enough, even aside from the continual slight/ disrespect of the league towards our team, then maybe we have the wrong personnel to win it all. But we have to want it more!!!!!!

3- MAKE OUR DAMN SHOTS!!!
We are an NBA team that was the most dominant team in the entire league and for once, projected consensus favorites to win the title. And on top of that, we have a historically great HOF floor general/ playmaker to set our guys up and we can't make basic shots? We need to get serious and focus in! If our threes aren't falling, go back to the midrange and get back in rythym while building a better cushion.

Our practice should consist of only three principles for Sunday's game. Rebounding, communication on defensive rotations, and shooting, shooting, and more shooting to get our rythym back!

[Revived]

Wonder if any players from either team will try and sneak away to hit the French Quarter Fest happening in New Orleans this weekend. I’ve heard that’s always fun.

[RunDogGun]

You don't really make a counter argument to his. Monty probably values Cam J much more than Shamet, so trying to preserve him for end of game is not like doing the same with Shamet. I personally was scared Cam J was injured when he didn't start the 3rd not knowing he had 3 fouls. Now that I know it, not starting him makes some sense though starting and taking out a player on 4th foul is more common in such situation.

Dude, pointing out that Chowder had three fouls at the half during game one, and Chowder starting the third in that game, was the damn counter to his argument. Also, Monty has never done that. He always starts the same guys in the third, unless someone is injured before the half. The three fouls is not a valid excuse.

If he valued CamJo more, why play Sham 3 more minutes in the game? If Monty doesn't start CamJo, he just can't get CamJo 30+ minutes. Moreover, if he valued Cam more, he would get him more plays to get him open looks.

I know your love for Camjo exceeds all I think everyone here does but he has been awful since coming back from that injury. Has he been better than Crowder maybe but just barley. I like Cam but dude he has been terrible right along with everyone not named ayton mcgee cp and bridges. This entire team outside of those guys had been struggling for a month now.

Please don't make assumptions about how I feel, because you are making yourself look foolish. I back all of my comments up with data and stats when it comes to CamJ. Like him or not, we need him to get to form, especially with Booker out. Starting him, then not starting him, limiting his minutes to under 30+ minutes has been ridiculous. Fact is he was the only Sun that made two three point baskets. Shamet gets exposed defensively, as we knew he would, well anyone that has paid attention. We need spacing for CP3 to work, and Chuck Chowder hasn't made a three this whole series.Shamet can't seem to make anything outside of a dunk. We need to run plays to get Johnson open, and we need to get him going as quickly as possible to open the spacing. He is our best player for that job.

As for the new excuse that Johnson was scared (not your comment bwolf)...I think sunbg, you are thinking of Payne, but that would be the reason to try Holiday, who is the only other player on our team that can shoot the three at a consistently high %.

[RunDogGun]

Wonder if any players from either team will try and sneak away to hit the French Quarter Fest happening in New Orleans this weekend. I’ve heard that’s always fun.

If we come out flat on Sunday, it might be the whole team that went out.

[Revived]

Read on Twitter

Would’ve been funny if Ayton said something like “The way you’ve been playing this series you should be walking home, not taking the bus”.

[RunDogGun]

Really? It was obvious why he started him. Shamet wasn't playing scared like Johnson. Johnson is 10x the player but Shamet was playing aggressive and not like a sissy. All those talking about Crowder need to also realize Johnson is equally as bad right now.

Monty doesn't just replace someone in the starting lineup because he's not performing well at the moment. That should be clear after all this discussion about Jae/Cam starting. Most likely it was because of the foul trouble or Cam may still have some injury issue and was not feeling well during the break. Wild guess, but I like it better than Monty favoring Shamet over him. If so why not start Landry from the beginning and cause chemistry issues by benching Cam.

I have already debunked the foul trouble thing. Chowder had three fouls at half, game one, and he started. And we all know that Chuck Chowder was the first starting player to have all ones in his stat line. So that kills any excuse to take Johnson out of the starting lineup, for sucking, shooting terribly, and fouls, didn't move Chowder out of the starting lineup. If Monty prefers Shamet, then we are doomed. Shamet can't guard a glass of milk, and can't shoot. If we are going there, I think Monty cares more for Willie Green having success than winning a chip.

[RunDogGun]

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

Anyone else notice during the Shamet dunk on Hayes that it actually got the Pelicans bench excited? Literally a few of their guys got up and did whole “Oh damn wow” type thing that basically you would expect from the team of the dunker not the one getting dunked on. On video you can even see at least one of them clearly clapping after the dunk.

I’m not sure if it’s a sportsmanship thing or what but that was cool to see and I’m not sure I’ve ever seen that before. At the same time, I better never see the Suns stand up and cheer when an opposing player makes a dunk or a big play like that lmao

Most likely they expected Hayes to block Shamet like he did to Mikal in the previous game. I expected it too. Clapping was pointed to a teammate most likely, just a normal reaction of a bench player, otherwise it would be weird indeed.

I would agree. They thought he was making the same block he had on Mikal.

[Saberestar]

Please no more Shamet.. Payne is getting unplayable, too. Still waiting for everyone to make shots.. that will open up everything. Ayton was amazing today. He needs to play like that every game. Chris Paul is unreal. I seriously did not know he was this good. We are lucky to have him. Win on Sunday and take care of business in Phoenix for game 5. Let’s go!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

All well and good but every time someone has a few bad games and they are pronounced unplayable, you're going to end up with only 5 playable players or go back to the guy you think is unplayable.

The "no more Player X" sentiment is a nice thought experiment but ultimately not sustainable unless you have a guy who's as good if not better than the peak form of the guy that isn't playable. If you play Holiday over Payne and he has a couple of bad TO's and missing shots then what? Play Elf? Lundberg? Lower their minutes or rebalance it if you must but at some point you have to put trust in your rotation guys you've run with all season long to get out of their funk because simply not playing them means there's no opportunity for return to form.

Holliday isn’t a whole lot better offensive player than Payne but at least Holliday plays very good defense whenever he’s out on the court. I watched off ball today and Payne is disastrous defensively and Pelicans entire philosophy when he was in the game was to attack him. Willie Green must have thought very poorly of his defense even when he was here.

Payne is just giving us nothing both offensively and defensively. Actually it’s worse, he’s hurting us on both ends.

He had a chip in the bubble and last year of trying to prove people wrong and staying in the league after having been bounced out of it and forced to play overseas. Now after getting paid, he’s lost that chip completely. This season, he’s back to being the trash Payne that he was for most of his NBA career.

I think him getting some DNPs will give him that chip again to show he can be a rotation player in the league. Then maybe later on we can give him a chance again and he’ll do well.

Payne just seems like that type of player who needs the additional motivation and drive to actually play well or otherwise he just goes out there and does nothing.

He’s also one of the many players who continue to show why guaranteed contracts is such a dumb concept in the NBA…players immediately quit giving a ***k after signing that extension and no longer work on their game to improve and instead being complacent. Imo, contracts should only be guaranteed for injury.

Cam Payne plays always his heart on the court, and that sometimes is his biggest problem because he can be too ansty and can take a rush decision, but his high effort is always there.

He is one of the best backup PGs in the league and has a friendly contract, look his production and compare him with other non rockie backup PGs...you are not getting a better one for less money.