2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 3 - Trade season begins

[Qwigglez]

There isn't any rumor to this, but I was interested to see if Suns fans would be interested in a trade revolved around KP for Crowder, Dario, and Shamet plus maybe one 1st. Other team(s) would likely be included, but I was wondering what everyone thought of the fit there.

[bwgood77]

Read on Twitter

Now this is one I will listen to. At least the Phx part.

A bullet pt summary would be nice GoK. Maybe I will do one, but I did get 2 hours of sleep last night. Was up playing video games with Ayton since there is no game today and his ankle is hurt so he can't run yet. Anyway, he's good. I have no chance.

[bwgood77]

There isn't any rumor to this, but I was interested to see if Suns fans would be interested in a trade revolved around KP for Crowder, Dario, and Shamet plus maybe one 1st. Other team(s) would likely be included, but I was wondering what everyone thought of the fit there.

Regardless of fit, that's a trade you HAVE to do. For a package like that? They can tank. I imagine he picks up his player option but it's one year..and if it works, keep him.

He could play PF on offense (Book/Bridges/Cam/KP/Ayton) and C on defense since Ayton can guard PFs...but best to stagger them too...16 minutes together and 16 minutes for each when other one sits.

Gives us another floor stretcher, guy that can create and block shots.

[Qwigglez]

There isn't any rumor to this, but I was interested to see if Suns fans would be interested in a trade revolved around KP for Crowder, Dario, and Shamet plus maybe one 1st. Other team(s) would likely be included, but I was wondering what everyone thought of the fit there.

Regardless of fit, that's a trade you HAVE to do. For a package like that? They can tank. I imagine he picks up his player option but it's one year..and if it works, keep him.

He could play PF on offense (Book/Bridges/Cam/KP/Ayton) and C on defense since Ayton can guard PFs...but best to stagger them too...16 minutes together and 16 minutes for each when other one sits.

Gives us another floor stretcher, guy that can create and block shots.

Oh my bad... I pulled a James Jones and got initials mixed up. I meant... KCP as in Kentavious Caldwell Pope. Meant to add Ish Smith and add Jeff Green too.

I kid I kid.

I'm really just perplexed as to what in the heck the Wizards are trying to do. They are on a massive losing streak, and I just feel they don't have an identity. I know Beal has been hurt, but the guy hasn't had a healthy season since 2019-2020. He missed 22 games in 2020-21 season, 42 games last season, and has already missed 11 games out of 29 this season. Also keep in mind, he did come back for six games where he posted nearly identical numbers that he is currently averaging (plus last season's numbers) and in that 6 game span the Wizards are 1-5, losing to the Hornets even who was missing Ball. I think the Wizards need a complete rebuild or try to focus their offense around Avdija who will be 22 years old soon. The Wizards do owe their 2023 draft pick to the Knicks but it is 1-14 protected, so if the Wizards miss the playoffs they'll keep their pick.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Does anyone else find it somewhat strange that we're officially a day into the trade deadline opening and there doesn't seem to be any news out there on any trades yet! Could it be the calm before the storm or something?? Could the suns be waiting till January to broach a trade with Miami once Olajdipo/ Martin become available for trade?? Still apparently in on KJ Martin Jr though ( 1 day ago):

https://www.callin.com/episode/trade-szn-is-upon-us-hhGPYfwZZe
11:55 minutes in.......................
They begin discussing KJ Martin for Phoenix. And the value that Hordon has to teams like Phoenix and how they both seem attached in terms of trade value. Clearly two firsts seems heavy for there combined value! But maybe a future lotto protected 25' first ( for KJ Martin Jr.) And like a future 2nd) for Gordon? They get to offload Gordon finally and we get Gordon for a slight scoring boost off the bench, but more importantly, We get a 20 million TO for next season, So if we maybe did something like this:

1- Shamet/ Saric/ 2025 lotto protected first/ 2 future 2nds for Gordon/ Martin Jr.
= 20 million Team option.

2- Paul/ Crowder for Russell/ Prince/ 2nd.
= 30 million expiring. So combined we could clear around 50 million next season. Prince can replace Crowder for this season. We'd compete for the rest of the season with a lineup of:

Russell/ Booker/ Bridges/ Craig/ Ayton.
Payne/ Martin Jr/ Prince / Johnson/ Biyombo.
DWash/ Okogie/ Ish / Rookie/ Landale?

[WeekapaugGroove]

Does anyone else find it somewhat strange that we're officially a day into the trade deadline opening and there doesn't seem to be any news out there on any trades yet! Could it be the calm before the storm or something?? Could the suns be waiting till January to broach a trade with Miami once Olajdipo/ Martin become available for trade?? Still apparently in on KJ Martin Jr though ( 1 day ago):

https://www.callin.com/episode/trade-szn-is-upon-us-hhGPYfwZZe
11:55 minutes in.......................
They begin discussing KJ Martin for Phoenix. And the value that Hordon has to teams like Phoenix and how they both seem attached in terms of trade value. Clearly two firsts seems heavy for there combined value! But maybe a future lotto protected 25' first ( for KJ Martin Jr.) And like a future 2nd) for Gordon? They get to offload Gordon finally and we get Gordon for a slight scoring boost off the bench, but more importantly, We get a 20 million TO for next season, So if we maybe did something like this:

1- Shamet/ Saric/ 2025 lotto protected first/ 2 future 2nds for Gordon/ Martin Jr.
= 20 million Team option.

2- Paul/ Crowder for Russell/ Prince/ 2nd.
= 30 million expiring. So combined we could clear around 50 million next season. Prince can replace Crowder for this season. We'd compete for the rest of the season with a lineup of:

Russell/ Booker/ Bridges/ Craig/ Ayton.
Payne/ Martin Jr/ Prince / Johnson/ Biyombo.
DWash/ Okogie/ Ish / Rookie/ Landale?

I thought there was a possibility they were waiting on the 15th but always the most realistic time for a Crowder trade is at the deadline. Historically very few deals happen before that.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

[Qwigglez]

Does anyone else find it somewhat strange that we're officially a day into the trade deadline opening and there doesn't seem to be any news out there on any trades yet! Could it be the calm before the storm or something?? Could the suns be waiting till January to broach a trade with Miami once Olajdipo/ Martin become available for trade?? Still apparently in on KJ Martin Jr though ( 1 day ago):

https://www.callin.com/episode/trade-szn-is-upon-us-hhGPYfwZZe
11:55 minutes in.......................
They begin discussing KJ Martin for Phoenix. And the value that Hordon has to teams like Phoenix and how they both seem attached in terms of trade value. Clearly two firsts seems heavy for there combined value! But maybe a future lotto protected 25' first ( for KJ Martin Jr.) And like a future 2nd) for Gordon? They get to offload Gordon finally and we get Gordon for a slight scoring boost off the bench, but more importantly, We get a 20 million TO for next season, So if we maybe did something like this:

1- Shamet/ Saric/ 2025 lotto protected first/ 2 future 2nds for Gordon/ Martin Jr.
= 20 million Team option.

2- Paul/ Crowder for Russell/ Prince/ 2nd.
= 30 million expiring. So combined we could clear around 50 million next season. Prince can replace Crowder for this season. We'd compete for the rest of the season with a lineup of:

Russell/ Booker/ Bridges/ Craig/ Ayton.
Payne/ Martin Jr/ Prince / Johnson/ Biyombo.
DWash/ Okogie/ Ish / Rookie/ Landale?

I'd be interested in doing a DLo for Paul trade, but no way would Jones do that.
Also I don't think the Wolves do it either since DLo has been on an absolute tear since Towns has gone down. Though I think Paul would have some fun with that Wolves roster, and Crowder would help them out too. I wouldn't be at all interested in doing that type of deal for just clearing some expiring contracts though and would actually try to keep DLo and even Taurean Prince depending on his market value.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Does anyone else find it somewhat strange that we're officially a day into the trade deadline opening and there doesn't seem to be any news out there on any trades yet! Could it be the calm before the storm or something?? Could the suns be waiting till January to broach a trade with Miami once Olajdipo/ Martin become available for trade?? Still apparently in on KJ Martin Jr though ( 1 day ago):

https://www.callin.com/episode/trade-szn-is-upon-us-hhGPYfwZZe
11:55 minutes in.......................
They begin discussing KJ Martin for Phoenix. And the value that Hordon has to teams like Phoenix and how they both seem attached in terms of trade value. Clearly two firsts seems heavy for there combined value! But maybe a future lotto protected 25' first ( for KJ Martin Jr.) And like a future 2nd) for Gordon? They get to offload Gordon finally and we get Gordon for a slight scoring boost off the bench, but more importantly, We get a 20 million TO for next season, So if we maybe did something like this:

1- Shamet/ Saric/ 2025 lotto protected first/ 2 future 2nds for Gordon/ Martin Jr.
= 20 million Team option.

2- Paul/ Crowder for Russell/ Prince/ 2nd.
= 30 million expiring. So combined we could clear around 50 million next season. Prince can replace Crowder for this season. We'd compete for the rest of the season with a lineup of:

Russell/ Booker/ Bridges/ Craig/ Ayton.
Payne/ Martin Jr/ Prince / Johnson/ Biyombo.
DWash/ Okogie/ Ish / Rookie/ Landale?

I'd be interested in doing a DLo for Paul trade, but no way would Jones do that.
Also I don't think the Wolves do it either since DLo has been on an absolute tear since Towns has gone down. Though I think Paul would have some fun with that Wolves roster, and Crowder would help them out too. I wouldn't be at all interested in doing that type of deal for just clearing some expiring contracts though and would actually try to keep DLo and even Taurean Prince depending on his market value.

I agree that Jones likely wouldn't do it. But I actually think the Wolves would do it because of Paul's reputation for being able to raise a teams' playoff ceiling. As well as mentoring for their young core. I also agree that we should have interest in trying to keep Russell and Prince which shouldn't be an issue to much if our ownership is really that wealthy.

[dremill24]

Paul had a reputation for raising a team's regular season floor, not playoff ceiling. In fact some might argue he has a rep for being unable to raise a team's playoff ceiling.

[bwgood77]

There isn't any rumor to this, but I was interested to see if Suns fans would be interested in a trade revolved around KP for Crowder, Dario, and Shamet plus maybe one 1st. Other team(s) would likely be included, but I was wondering what everyone thought of the fit there.

Regardless of fit, that's a trade you HAVE to do. For a package like that? They can tank. I imagine he picks up his player option but it's one year..and if it works, keep him.

He could play PF on offense (Book/Bridges/Cam/KP/Ayton) and C on defense since Ayton can guard PFs...but best to stagger them too...16 minutes together and 16 minutes for each when other one sits.

Gives us another floor stretcher, guy that can create and block shots.

Oh my bad... I pulled a James Jones and got initials mixed up. I meant... KCP as in Kentavious Caldwell Pope. Meant to add Ish Smith and add Jeff Green too.

I kid I kid.

I'm really just perplexed as to what in the heck the Wizards are trying to do. They are on a massive losing streak, and I just feel they don't have an identity. I know Beal has been hurt, but the guy hasn't had a healthy season since 2019-2020. He missed 22 games in 2020-21 season, 42 games last season, and has already missed 11 games out of 29 this season. Also keep in mind, he did come back for six games where he posted nearly identical numbers that he is currently averaging (plus last season's numbers) and in that 6 game span the Wizards are 1-5, losing to the Hornets even who was missing Ball. I think the Wizards need a complete rebuild or try to focus their offense around Avdija who will be 22 years old soon. The Wizards do owe their 2023 draft pick to the Knicks but it is 1-14 protected, so if the Wizards miss the playoffs they'll keep their pick.

I would probably think about trading KP and try to see if they can keep Kuzma. If they made him the second guy next to Beal and paid him more than anyone else, then it might make sense especially if they can get a good return for KP.

I don't think we could get KP for what you said though (if you meant KP)..even though he is basically an expiring (though I think he will pick up his option). KP is really good when he plays...or at least can be.

I think he likes it there so it might make sense to keep him and trade him next year if it makes sense. I think even if they kept everyone, they would be in the lottery because I think Atlanta will get better, Indy has come on as has Brooklyn, etc...Philly will get better and maybe even Miami.

[bwgood77]

Does anyone else find it somewhat strange that we're officially a day into the trade deadline opening and there doesn't seem to be any news out there on any trades yet! Could it be the calm before the storm or something?? Could the suns be waiting till January to broach a trade with Miami once Olajdipo/ Martin become available for trade?? Still apparently in on KJ Martin Jr though ( 1 day ago):

https://www.callin.com/episode/trade-szn-is-upon-us-hhGPYfwZZe
11:55 minutes in.......................
They begin discussing KJ Martin for Phoenix. And the value that Hordon has to teams like Phoenix and how they both seem attached in terms of trade value. Clearly two firsts seems heavy for there combined value! But maybe a future lotto protected 25' first ( for KJ Martin Jr.) And like a future 2nd) for Gordon? They get to offload Gordon finally and we get Gordon for a slight scoring boost off the bench, but more importantly, We get a 20 million TO for next season, So if we maybe did something like this:

1- Shamet/ Saric/ 2025 lotto protected first/ 2 future 2nds for Gordon/ Martin Jr.
= 20 million Team option.

2- Paul/ Crowder for Russell/ Prince/ 2nd.
= 30 million expiring. So combined we could clear around 50 million next season. Prince can replace Crowder for this season. We'd compete for the rest of the season with a lineup of:

Russell/ Booker/ Bridges/ Craig/ Ayton.
Payne/ Martin Jr/ Prince / Johnson/ Biyombo.
DWash/ Okogie/ Ish / Rookie/ Landale?

I thought there was a possibility they were waiting on the 15th but always the most realistic time for a Crowder trade is at the deadline. Historically very few deals happen before that.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

Yeah it depends on if specific players eligible on Dec 15th were targeted...and none of us knew if they were. I think some trades might go down, but I'm not surprised it's not immediately and they probably take a few days to finalize things.

Seems like bigger names even though far fewer are 1/15. I know he hasn't played well in a while and was injured to start, but if we don't have good deals, and Dipo is ok being moved, he would be a nice 4th athletic defensive guard for our rotation.

But of course he hasn't played a full season in like 5 years and very few in the last couple so it doesn't make a lot of sense given our injuries.

Ayton is also available 1/15. Not sure if he'd have interest given his salary and I don't see teams wanting to move guys. I know Poeltl has suitors and he is sitting so the Spurs probably want to trade him and I could see Pop wanting to build around Ayton given he likes bigs and had the athleticism with Robinson and the Big Fundamental. He would probably love to work with Ayton and TD would definitely help work with him.

Poeltl is expected to command about $25 million in FA. Personally I'd still prefer to pay Ayton $30, but who knows about the Suns and maybe we could get McDermott or something (no, GoK, I don't think we could get Vassell, Keldon or Sochan...those are their young pieces and Ayton would join them being 3 years younger than Poeltl and already all around better.

McDermott is a total Jones guy...an unathletic shooter. Poeltl too..an unathletic finisher around the rim with solid defense around the rim..pretty good rebounding and decent passing.

Who knows? Maybe we could get one of their Hawks firsts.

[bwgood77]

Paul had a reputation for raising a team's regular season floor, not playoff ceiling. In fact some might argue he has a rep for being unable to raise a team's playoff ceiling.

I think he can raise a team's playoff ceiling, in part because many wouldn't make the playoffs without him when he gets there. However, his rep is that he is such a perfectionist and wants to win every game that he doesn't have that extra gear in the playoffs so the team doesn't up themselves a level from the regular season in the playoffs. A guy like Ayton does...a guy like Shaq did, LeBron usually does, etc...Kawhi and many others, but Paul doesn't so normally he takes a team as far as they can get until they run into superior talent..but many feel he should have gotten further due to an inflated regular season record related to other teams who didn't go balls out in the regular season.

[dremill24]

Paul had a reputation for raising a team's regular season floor, not playoff ceiling. In fact some might argue he has a rep for being unable to raise a team's playoff ceiling.

I think he can raise a team's playoff ceiling, in part because many wouldn't make the playoffs without him when he gets there. However, his rep is that he is such a perfectionist and wants to win every game that he doesn't have that extra gear in the playoffs so the team doesn't up themselves a level from the regular season in the playoffs. A guy like Ayton does...a guy like Shaq did, LeBron usually does, etc...Kawhi and many others, but Paul doesn't so normally he takes a team as far as they can get until they run into superior talent..but many feel he should have gotten further due to an inflated regular season record related to other teams who didn't go balls out in the regular season.

Thats called a floor raiser

[Ghost of Kleine]

Does anyone else find it somewhat strange that we're officially a day into the trade deadline opening and there doesn't seem to be any news out there on any trades yet! Could it be the calm before the storm or something?? Could the suns be waiting till January to broach a trade with Miami once Olajdipo/ Martin become available for trade?? Still apparently in on KJ Martin Jr though (1 day ago):

https://www.callin.com/episode/trade-szn-is-upon-us-hhGPYfwZZe
11:55 minutes in.......................
They begin discussing KJ Martin for Phoenix. And the value that Hordon has to teams like Phoenix and how they both seem attached in terms of trade value. Clearly two firsts seems heavy for there combined value! But maybe a future lotto protected 25' first ( for KJ Martin Jr.) And like a future 2nd) for Gordon? They get to offload Gordon finally and we get Gordon for a slight scoring boost off the bench, but more importantly, We get a 20 million TO for next season, So if we maybe did something like this:

1- Shamet/ Saric/ 2025 lotto protected first/ 2 future 2nds for Gordon/ Martin Jr.
= 20 million Team option.

2- Paul/ Crowder for Russell/ Prince/ 2nd.
= 30 million expiring. So combined we could clear around 50 million next season. Prince can replace Crowder for this season. We'd compete for the rest of the season with a lineup of:

Russell/ Booker/ Bridges/ Craig/ Ayton.
Payne/ Martin Jr/ Prince / Johnson/ Biyombo.
DWash/ Okogie/ Ish / Rookie/ Landale?

I thought there was a possibility they were waiting on the 15th but always the most realistic time for a Crowder trade is at the deadline. Historically very few deals happen before that.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

Yeah it depends on if specific players eligible on Dec 15th were targeted...and none of us knew if they were. I think some trades might go down, but I'm not surprised it's not immediately and they probably take a few days to finalize things.

Seems like bigger names even though far fewer are 1/15. I know he hasn't played well in a while and was injured to start, but if we don't have good deals, and Dipo is ok being moved, he would be a nice 4th athletic defensive guard for our rotation.

But of course he hasn't played a full season in like 5 years and very few in the last couple so it doesn't make a lot of sense given our injuries.

Ayton is also available 1/15. Not sure if he'd have interest given his salary and I don't see teams wanting to move guys. I know Poeltl has suitors and he is sitting so the Spurs probably want to trade him and I could see Pop wanting to build around Ayton given he likes bigs and had the athleticism with Robinson and the Big Fundamental. He would probably love to work with Ayton and TD would definitely help work with him.

Poeltl is expected to command about $25 million in FA. Personally I'd still prefer to pay Ayton $30, but who knows about the Suns and maybe we could get McDermott or something (no, GoK, I don't think we could get Vassell, Keldon or Sochan...those are their young pieces and Ayton would join them being 3 years younger than Poeltl and already all around better.

McDermott is a total Jones guy...an unathletic shooter. Poeltl too..an unathletic finisher around the rim with solid defense around the rim..pretty good rebounding and decent passing.

Who knows? Maybe we could get one of their Hawks firsts.

Lol! For sure...........
Actually I really don't care for either of those two (Vassell or Sochan) I would rather see us draft Leaky Black (NC) as a high level defensive wing shooting 38% from three. And I would also prefer Jalen Graham (AS) to Sochan. As for McDermott, I agree on him and mentioned him as an alternative to not getting Bogi! I doubt they'd give up a Hawks 1st, But perhaps we could get Indiana's 23' 2nd and package both and a future first to Houston for Gordon and KJ Martin Jr???

1- Saric for McDermott 2nd?
(Total cap clearing move).

2- Shamet and Crowder/ future 1st/ 2 2nds for Gordon and Kenyon Martin Jr ?

Paul/ Book/ Bridges/ Johnson/ Ayton.
Payne/ Gordon / Martin Jr/ McDermott/ Bizzy.
DWash/ Lee / Okogie / Ish/ Landale?

[grumpysaddle]

I know he's not available, but I'd give pretty much anything besides Booker to get SGA on the Suns.

[bwgood77]

I know he's not available, but I'd give pretty much anything besides Booker to get SGA on the Suns.

Yeah, he'd be perfect. His #s are actually pretty identical to Book's except 3 pt shooting, and he's better on D, but he'd be a great PG to have. And he's only going to get better. OKC is going to be tough. They are missing their top pick and have so many draft picks young players, versatile guys, a good coach. A couple years and they can be scary.

[grumpysaddle]

I know he's not available, but I'd give pretty much anything besides Booker to get SGA on the Suns.

Yeah, he'd be perfect. His #s are actually pretty identical to Book's except 3 pt shooting, and he's better on D, but he'd be a great PG to have. And he's only going to get better. OKC is going to be tough. They are missing their top pick and have so many draft picks young players, versatile guys, a good coach. A couple years and they can be scary.

They can be, I just don't trust that franchise to get over the hump. I would have thrown everything and the kitchen sink at OKC before the season started to try and pry him away. I think he's going to be better than Booker overall, and I really like Booker as a player. Them being paired up would almost be unfair.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Paul had a reputation for raising a team's regular season floor, not playoff ceiling. In fact some might argue he has a rep for being unable to raise a team's playoff ceiling.

What about the Thunder the season before he got traded to us. I can't remember specifically. But didn't he elevate their seeding and help them make a competitive run in the playoffs that season? Genuinely asking because I can't remember the full details of it. Only that he was reported to elevate their success beyond what was expected given their roster/ projection.

But given how badly the Wolves probably want to make a good run in the postseason and/ or probably hope for a better seed, I think they'd have genuine interest for that and his leadership!!

[Ghost of Kleine]

Paul had a reputation for raising a team's regular season floor, not playoff ceiling. In fact some might argue he has a rep for being unable to raise a team's playoff ceiling.

I think he can raise a team's playoff ceiling, in part because many wouldn't make the playoffs without him when he gets there. However, his rep is that he is such a perfectionist and wants to win every game that he doesn't have that extra gear in the playoffs so the team doesn't up themselves a level from the regular season in the playoffs. A guy like Ayton does...a guy like Shaq did, LeBron usually does, etc...Kawhi and many others, but Paul doesn't so normally he takes a team as far as they can get until they run into superior talent..but many feel he should have gotten further due to an inflated regular season record related to other teams who didn't go balls out in the regular season.

Thats called a floor raiser

Thanks for the correction.

[sunskerr]

Yeah I love SGA too. If I can't have him on the Suns I'm glad he's my dynasty centerpiece.

But we should also look ahead a few years in free agency. I think its important to try to stay relevant AND see if we can either cut some costs or build assets for a trade. I think some of these guys coming off their rookie extensions (ahem Doncic) might not be happy and if we give those teams some big Ls in the playoffs their stars might look at Phoenix next to Booker as a place to go.

But in the meantime I remember someone posting a hypothetical between PHX-UTA-ATL that had two guys coming back our way. It would be interesting if we could turn Crowder + someone else into two bench/rotation guys. If we can't get that extra creator then maybe the next best thing is to have a lineup where we can hide Chris Paul on the bench for when teams try to attack him in the playoffs. Need more guys who can play the 2-3-4 positions to do that though.