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Part 2:
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=2387953&start=1980

Latest news:

Saberestar wrote:

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If Little is signed by another team it saves Ishbia some money right.

Any news about Brad Beal ? Book and KD played games, Nurk and Allen working out, haven't seen anything about the 50M+ investment other than rehabbing his nose like two months ago. Hope he's having a good preparation and gets past the preseason games this time. Don't kill the good vibes early again.

BobbieL wrote:

Saberestar wrote:

BobbieL wrote:Isbia eating another $25m -- though maybe he saves some money in lux tax by stretching Little. 22m for Little, I think 3m for Liddel
who will fill the roster spot

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Wow, amazing move by Ishbia AGAIN.

We now have a roster spot available and there are some interesting names out there available.

Shams made it sound like maybe this is more for the inseason - but man, paying $22m for Little to go away --

We shall see what happens

Yeah, Shams some way suggests that we want to have one roster spot available for in season trades or signings...but it's weird to make the move this early when we could have waived Little at any point of the season.

I would like to sign an small ball 5 with some shooting.

Bruno Caboclo is available. 29 years old next month. 6'9 with crazy wingspan and an skilled all-around game as a PF/C.

Saberestar wrote:

BobbieL wrote:

Saberestar wrote:Wow, amazing move by Ishbia AGAIN.

We now have a roster spot available and there are some interesting names out there available.

Shams made it sound like maybe this is more for the inseason - but man, paying $22m for Little to go away --

We shall see what happens

Yeah, Shams some way suggests that we want to have one roster spot available for in season trades or signings...but it's weird to make the move this early when we could have waived Little at any point of the season.

I would like to sign an small ball 5 with some shooting.

Bruno Caboclo is available. 29 years old next month. 6'9 with crazy wingspan and an skilled all-around game as a PF/C.

They could have waived Little at any point but can only stretch him in the offseason (man he'll be on the books a long time lol)

Saberestar wrote:

BobbieL wrote:

Saberestar wrote:Wow, amazing move by Ishbia AGAIN.

We now have a roster spot available and there are some interesting names out there available.

Shams made it sound like maybe this is more for the inseason - but man, paying $22m for Little to go away --

We shall see what happens

Yeah, Shams some way suggests that we want to have one roster spot available for in season trades or signings...but it's weird to make the move this early when we could have waived Little at any point of the season.

I would like to sign an small ball 5 with some shooting.

Bruno Caboclo is available. 29 years old next month. 6'9 with crazy wingspan and an skilled all-around game as a PF/C.

Oso...

Fo-Real wrote:

Saberestar wrote:

BobbieL wrote:

Shams made it sound like maybe this is more for the inseason - but man, paying $22m for Little to go away --

We shall see what happens

Yeah, Shams some way suggests that we want to have one roster spot available for in season trades or signings...but it's weird to make the move this early when we could have waived Little at any point of the season.

I would like to sign an small ball 5 with some shooting.

Bruno Caboclo is available. 29 years old next month. 6'9 with crazy wingspan and an skilled all-around game as a PF/C.

Oso...

Yeah, I like Oso but he can't shoot so he has the same skillset as Mason Plumlee. Caboclo would give us a different type of player on the frontcourt.

Bol Bol is so skinny and he doesn't box out, he has a SG mentality so I don't trust him at the 5 even on small ball lineups.

Saberestar wrote:

Fo-Real wrote:

Saberestar wrote:Yeah, Shams some way suggests that we want to have one roster spot available for in season trades or signings...but it's weird to make the move this early when we could have waived Little at any point of the season.

I would like to sign an small ball 5 with some shooting.

Bruno Caboclo is available. 29 years old next month. 6'9 with crazy wingspan and an skilled all-around game as a PF/C.

Oso...

Yeah, I like Oso but he can't shoot so he has the same skillset as Mason Plumlee. Caboclo would give us a different type of player on the frontcourt.

Bol Bol is so skinny and he doesn't box out, he has a SG mentality so I don't trust him at the 5 even on small ball lineups.

Judging from summer-league, Oso isnt good at boxing out either.

Fo-Real wrote:

Saberestar wrote:

Fo-Real wrote:
Oso...

Yeah, I like Oso but he can't shoot so he has the same skillset as Mason Plumlee. Caboclo would give us a different type of player on the frontcourt.

Bol Bol is so skinny and he doesn't box out, he has a SG mentality so I don't trust him at the 5 even on small ball lineups.

Judging from summer-league, Oso isnt good at boxing out either.

Yeah, I agree. He needs to improve his defensive rebounding.

In his last season at college he just averaged 6.9 boards per game in 32.5 minutes playing C.

He is a very good passer and good ball handler for a 6'10 guy. He can score as a lob threat and with his solid push shot/floater in the paint.

Saberestar wrote:

BobbieL wrote:

Saberestar wrote:Wow, amazing move by Ishbia AGAIN.

We now have a roster spot available and there are some interesting names out there available.

Shams made it sound like maybe this is more for the inseason - but man, paying $22m for Little to go away --

We shall see what happens

Yeah, Shams some way suggests that we want to have one roster spot available for in season trades or signings...but it's weird to make the move this early when we could have waived Little at any point of the season.

I would like to sign an small ball 5 with some shooting.

Bruno Caboclo is available. 29 years old next month. 6'9 with crazy wingspan and an skilled all-around game as a PF/C.

If you stretch him after the 1st of Sep, you're basically on the hook for this season full salary so you get no benefits of stretching him until next offseason. Makes it pointless to stretch him after that date so we had to make a decision.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2023/03/hoops-rumors-glossary-stretch-provision-2.html

I still don't like having the ghost of a bad front office move staining the books for years to come but given the amount of tax savings, a newly opened roster spot and the reducing impact on the salary cap (2.2% of the cap now, 1.2% by the end)....they probably thought it was worth it.

I'm also pretty bearish on our rookies, even the ones I like (Bridges/Oso), contributing in a significant way this season. I actually like Bridges the most because he can defend and shoot 3's and that's already a playable profile in this league. Oso, I'm not entirely sure what he can do at the NBA level other than maybe be a run and dunk C but Plumlee can already do that and more. Dunn, I don't even know how many minutes he could play given how poor his offense is.

I wish someone would give me $22 .million to go away.

Saber asked before the last thread shut down what a classic wing looks like.



Playing the same game with Atlanta (because it starts with A):

Cody Zeller 6'11"
Onyeka Okongwu 6'10"
Mouhamed Gouye 6'10"
Clint Capela 6'10"
Zaccharie Risacher 6'9"
Dominick Barlow 6'9"
Larry Nance Jr. 6'8"
Vit Krejci 6'8"
Jalen Johnson 6'8"
De'Andre Hunter 6'8"
Dylan Windler 6'7"
Nikola Djurisic 6'7"
Dyson Daniels 6'7"
Devin Booker 6'6"
Garrison Matthews 6'6"
Kobe Bufkin 6'5"
Bogdan Bogdanovic 6'5"
David Roddy 6'4"
Seth Lundy 6'4"
Keaton Wallace 6'3"
Trae Young 6'1"

We're short, is all I'm saying.

Roddy/Liddell and Little will cost Ishbia maybe 100m.

24m salary times tax.

Yet Jones remains and that's probably not in his top 5 mistakes.

Mulhollanddrive wrote:Roddy/Liddell and Little will cost Ishbia maybe 100m.

24m salary times tax.

Yet Jones remains and that's probably not in his top 5 mistakes.

He is doing as he is told.

Fo-Real wrote:

Mulhollanddrive wrote:Roddy/Liddell and Little will cost Ishbia maybe 100m.

24m salary times tax.

Yet Jones remains and that's probably not in his top 5 mistakes.

He is doing as he is told.

If you cant convince one owner to spend and not do stpd things (while messing up trades all the time and drafts), and then right after this period you can not convince the next owner to not spend and do stpd things (while messing up all the trades and drafts) then you are probably not very good at your job - which is mostly about convincing owner to do the right thing and not mess up trades and drafts.

Bogyo wrote:

Fo-Real wrote:

Mulhollanddrive wrote:Roddy/Liddell and Little will cost Ishbia maybe 100m.

24m salary times tax.

Yet Jones remains and that's probably not in his top 5 mistakes.

He is doing as he is told.

If you cant convince one owner to spend and not do stpd things (while messing up trades all the time and drafts), and then right after this period you can not convince the next owner to not spend and do stpd things (while messing up all the trades and drafts) then you are probably not very good at your job - which is mostly about convincing owner to do the right thing and not mess up trades and drafts.

Yep, I should tell the owner of the company I work for that I wont do what he tells me to do while he pays me millions of dollars. Cool Idea bro.

Unless there's some tell all book like 10 years from now outlining all the **** that's went down with the end of Sarver days and beggining of the Ish era I won't really know how to properly judge James Jones as a GM. So many things are hard to gauge was was Jones idea or the owner.


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Bogyo wrote:

Fo-Real wrote:

Mulhollanddrive wrote:Roddy/Liddell and Little will cost Ishbia maybe 100m.

24m salary times tax.

Yet Jones remains and that's probably not in his top 5 mistakes.

He is doing as he is told.

If you cant convince one owner to spend and not do stpd things (while messing up trades all the time and drafts), and then right after this period you can not convince the next owner to not spend and do stpd things (while messing up all the trades and drafts) then you are probably not very good at your job - which is mostly about convincing owner to do the right thing and not mess up trades and drafts.

I can't speak to the previous owner because I wasn't paying attention then. It seems though that I would not consider him a favorite from what I've read. I started watching when Durant arrived because he, IMO, is worth following if you love the game. In spite of what was my team at the time I was the same with the Big O, Pettit, Baylor, and others. I hated a dreaded rival of my former (long lost) home team, but loved watching Hondo anyway. So I don't consider myself a team "bandwagoner", but you can disagree if you think I'm rationalizing.

Ishbia is another matter, however. I cannot understand any fan being unhappy with what he has done and is doing in spite of financial losses he has personally incurred. And I can't blame Jones for those because it is obvious who must have authorized those moves. But other than signing Roddy, and cutting Payne last year, which I wouldn't have done, I think most moves by the new regime have been impressive. Ayton was replaced (for all intents and purposes) with Nurkic and Allen. Johnson was cut in order to sign Bol, and Little was also useless trade filler lost for future flexibility. As in the case with getting Bol, that probably will be worth it, for the team and fans, at no one's expense except the owner, who determines what should be the cost for seeking improvement. Looking at the current roster and, I think, substantial bench improvement, I won't complain.

In that regard I think the team was too small last year. In a recent re-think however I noticed Jusuf played only 27 minutes per. I believe Plumlee in those remaining minutes will make a substantial difference. We have moved closer to the TWolves who also have Naz and McDaniels, and the Mavs and Celts, particularly if Bol improves and at least one of the rookies is playable. Most talk is of Dunn and Oso, but I'm curious about Bridges, who is said to have a good combination of offensive and defensive balance. Of course that leaves little guys like Ant, SGA, et al, but hopefully Bud and the new point guards can tweak the offense to use our collective fire power as an offset.

Fo-Real wrote:

Bogyo wrote:

Fo-Real wrote:
He is doing as he is told.

If you cant convince one owner to spend and not do stpd things (while messing up trades all the time and drafts), and then right after this period you can not convince the next owner to not spend and do stpd things (while messing up all the trades and drafts) then you are probably not very good at your job - which is mostly about convincing owner to do the right thing and not mess up trades and drafts.

Yep, I should tell the owner of the company I work for that I wont do what he tells me to do while he pays me millions of dollars. Cool Idea bro.

You know if you were worth a hundred mill or so and you were actually knowlegable about your job you might just consider growing a spine and quitting if you dont like your boss (owner) and you only had to be a puppet yes man making you do stpd sht that you dont agree with. But growing a spine is a foreign concept to you as i see, no matter how cool of an idea that is - bro.

Bogyo wrote:

Fo-Real wrote:

Bogyo wrote:
If you cant convince one owner to spend and not do stpd things (while messing up trades all the time and drafts), and then right after this period you can not convince the next owner to not spend and do stpd things (while messing up all the trades and drafts) then you are probably not very good at your job - which is mostly about convincing owner to do the right thing and not mess up trades and drafts.

Yep, I should tell the owner of the company I work for that I wont do what he tells me to do while he pays me millions of dollars. Cool Idea bro.

You know if you were worth a hundred mill or so and you were actually knowlegable about your job you might just consider growing a spine and quitting if you dont like your boss (owner) and you only had to be a puppet yes man making you do stpd sht that you dont agree with. But growing a spine is a foreign concept to you as i see, no matter how cool of an idea that is - bro.

**** growing a spine and biting the hand that feeds you because you just need to be that guy. I would tell you what I think, tell you why and list the risks that what you want can cause. If you then tell me that THIS is what you want me to do to your money pit, while still paying me millions of dollars, I continue to collect and build the retirement type money you are providing. There is no guarantee that Jones will ever be able to get another GM job (never had one before), let alone any other job in the league. You dont throw your hurt feeling morals on the table based on a maybe BRO.

Fo-Real wrote:

Bogyo wrote:

Fo-Real wrote:
Yep, I should tell the owner of the company I work for that I wont do what he tells me to do while he pays me millions of dollars. Cool Idea bro.

You know if you were worth a hundred mill or so and you were actually knowlegable about your job you might just consider growing a spine and quitting if you dont like your boss (owner) and you only had to be a puppet yes man making you do stpd sht that you dont agree with. But growing a spine is a foreign concept to you as i see, no matter how cool of an idea that is - bro.

**** growing a spine and biting the hand that feeds you because you just need to be that guy. I would tell you what I think, tell you why and list the risks that what you want can cause. If you then tell me that THIS is what you want me to do to your money pit, while still paying me millions of dollars, I continue to collect and build the retirement type money you are providing. There is no guarantee that Jones will ever be able to get another GM job (never had one before), let alone any other job in the league. You dont throw your hurt feeling morals on the table based on a maybe BRO.

I think our debate ends after the first highlight. Each to his own. I like to have a spine and a brain. Worms and medusas have done fine without those for a couple hundred million years, so there are multiple ways to stay alive.
Just as a matter of fact the secound highlight of "build retirement type money" - JJ has that 100 times over by now.
But you are right, he will likely never have another job in the league based on his "accomplishments" - and he knows that too, bro.