Recipe for the Future (if we do or don’t blow it up)

[bwgood77]

I wanted to start a different thread that talks more about things like how would you retool in the offseason under different circumstances…and not just have us all echoing the same things we say about what should be done repeatedly (we can do that in the main thread), so what do you do if we retool if you are the GM for example and Book is off the table, etc? I will try to start going through players and put first option, but if not, what should we do.

KD:

I think it’s pretty clear it’s a long shot we turn it around to get into the playoffs. We may make the play in…that’s probably 50/50 with our schedule, but even if we get 9 or 10, we’d have to win twice to get in. If we somehow can get to 8th (or 7th somehow), we’d have to win at least once, which will be tough if it’s against Luka’s Lakers, GS with Curry and Butler, Jokic, and probably even Harden and Kawhi.

So if we miss, I think this summer is our last real chance to get value for KD. He will be 37 and is only under contract for 1 more year. If we keep him any longer, his value will be quite a bit lower by the trade deadline with free agency coming up, and if we keep him then, he could leave and we get nothing. If we extend him this summer, that might increase his value in trade if we waited until the deadline, but I don’t think that’s necessarily the right course to take with him

So I just look for offers hopefully where we can get two firsts, a prospect, or if it’s a really good prospect, one first I suppose (I doubt we could get more than 2 firsts but if we can, do it). Then filler. If we can take back less salary that is good too to reduce our payroll and where we are with the aprons. But we can’t take back any bad salary. If we have to take back a bad player for filler, he better be expiring in 26.

Book:

I really have a hard time seeing them decide to trade him, but maybe he is open to it. I don’t think they will trade him if he’s not (though if the deal was good enough, they probably should). So obviously, if we can trade him to Houston for our unprotected 25 (though they will know where that pick lands by then because the lottery will have taken place), our unprotected 27 and 29, and maybe Houston’s 29 (which I believe they can swap with Dallas when Kyrie and AD are pretty old). If we can get 3 picks, and definitely our two, plus Green, Jabari, Whitmore and filler, that would be solid. Obviously I would love Amen Thompson or Sengun, but I doubt they’d be on the table. We could also swap in Eason for Jabari.

Now if we retool we really need to think about the role players around him, but I do think we need a lot of defense and shooting. And if we run a traditional PG beside him it would have to be someone bigger, like Lonzo Ball, who can defend and hit the 3.

Beal:

If we can get off of his contract without giving up a pick, that would be nice, but I don’t want to give away any more picks unless we were getting back a useful player. These picks can all net us a Ryan Dunn or someone (Jokic went 43rd or something) so keep as many picks as possible at this point.

Besides, if you trade Beal and dump picks, chances are you have to take back a lot of salary because a team is unlikely to be able to absorb him, so you still have similar salary coming back in, and your cap situation is likely unchanged. Unless you get an expiring, which would help for this year (if he waives his NTC). I wouldn’t like dump him to Brooklyn so they can absorb him and give up 2 firsts just for cap space. We wouldn’t likely create any useful space anyway unless we dumped KD and didn’t take back salaries. So we could theoretically dump 2 firsts to get rid of him and still be over the cap. So it would just save luxury tax and allow us to combine players in trade (which we may be able to do anyway with smaller moves or taking back less salary in a KD deal). We already shaved some salary in the Nurkic/Martin trade.

I think when Beal has one year left, he may have trade value (but obviously still has his NTC). But being a useful player who is a big expiring to help another team shave a lot of salary may be really desirable in a year.

And maybe the best course of all is just keep him around and let him expire. We wouldn’t waste assets and we’d suddenly open up over $50 million in cap space in 27 without trading picks or salary at all. Then we can really start making moves, and maybe if we have gotten our 27 unprotected pick back, get a nice lottery pick and have a lot of cap space to work free agency as well.

So is Beal worth his salary? No, but if you let him expire in 27 when you also could have a high pick if you get yours back, maybe you suddenly can draft and sign two difference makers.

Allen, O’Neale:

I think they could be useful players to other teams, and if we could get a first for either, they’d be worth dealing to a contender. If not, we can keep until we get a good offer.

Scouting:

I think this might be the biggest key to enabling us to re-tool quickly if we can really beef up the scouting department and scout current NBA players on deep teams…young guys not getting opportunities…they could scout their college tapes, etc.

Also really deeply scout internationally and in college for players that may go undrafted or slip in the draft.

I might even have 2 or 3 separate scouting teams or individuals looking at things and see if they come up with the same player without having discussed it…one way under the radar.
I think we should really be future focused with guys we think can compete or at least play really hard now. Let them battle in summer league, our G league team, for roster spots, etc. Give us a fun gritty team…find athletic guys that can defend and shoot.

I know this may be easier said than done, but there are so many WC teams fighting for playoff spots and focusing more on getting in, that if we pivot and focus on finding more young talent, we can outdo them finding diamonds in the rough. We may not have as good of picks as them, but if you have better scouting and a better approach, it may not matter.

I guess that’s all for now. I don’t want to give you too much to read, if you got this far.

[BobbieL]

I will dive in with my thoughts.

1) Mat Ishbia -- if he truly wants to win a title, and I think he does - needs to learn patience as the next couple years are going to be tough if he truly does this right

2) Hire a new GM. Bob Myer comes to mind. I think Ishbia would like a name so that is why he comes to mind. But need a GM with a vision, how to manipulate the salary cap, and work trades. Like Washington has been using cap space to gain assets

3) Durant - need to trade him and if you get a solid B value, fine. Granted, hopefully that means a couple FRPs plus some young players that total much less than $51m so the team can keep under the apron

4) Booker - if you wait too long - value will continue to go down. Trade him and get a boatload

5) Allen and O'Neale - if you can attach them, get younger, do it

6) Beal - just keep him for another year and hope he plays well so he might be attractive plus if he is on a bad team, maybe you trade him in the summer of 2026 as he waives his NTC at that point

[Qwigglez]

I think a soft reset is in order this summer.

We likely won't get a great value out of trading KD, but it's worth pursuing a trade if it helps short-term and long-term.

I don't see us trading Booker under any circumstances unless he specifically asks to be traded. I'm not sure he'd do that at this stage in his career. Since Ishbia had the courtesy of allowing KD to choose his destination by NOT trading him to the Warriors OR Grizzlies, I would assume he will give Booker that same courtesy. This goes a long way in helping set a certain precedence for potential free agents in the future.

Beal won't be moved until his contract is closer to expiring.

Royce O'Neal contract runs until 2027-28 season. It's a great valuable contract for a quality veteran. Ideally the Suns can move him to a championship caliber team for a younger player but we'll see. Same with Grayson Allen.

[lilfishi22]

I think a soft reset is in order this summer.

We likely won't get a great value out of trading KD, but it's worth pursuing a trade if it helps short-term and long-term.

I don't see us trading Booker under any circumstances unless he specifically asks to be traded. I'm not sure he'd do that at this stage in his career. Since Ishbia had the courtesy of allowing KD to choose his destination by NOT trading him to the Warriors OR Grizzlies, I would assume he will give Booker that same courtesy. This goes a long way in helping set a certain precedence for potential free agents in the future.

Beal won't be moved until his contract is closer to expiring.

Royce O'Neal contract runs until 2027-28 season. It's a great valuable contract for a quality veteran. Ideally the Suns can move him to a championship caliber team for a younger player but we'll see. Same with Grayson Allen.

I'm of the same mindset.

I think we need a soft reset. Sell KD to the highest bidder, ideally there's some useful players coming back (but focus on draft capital) and continue to compete with Book as the man. As I've said before, trading Book is a non-starter, UNLESS we get some messaging from his camp that he wants out. We're not gonna do him like the Mavs did Luka.

Move Grayson for more size (and maybe a pick). Keep Royce as he probably has more value to us than on the market and he does a lot of what Grayson does but with more size and rebounding.

Beal is probably not tradeable but he's a good team guy and even after pretty heaving shopping, he still seems to be a good vibes dude. He'll be a major expiring which is the same time when we would've expected KD's deal comes off the books as well.

Maybe another big move this offseason is replacing Jones. I'm probably the least enthusiast Jones critic on here but even I know it's time to move on. I think we just need a fresh vision, a fresh approach and ideally a stronger voice than Jones. Let's not forget, the reason Jones got the job in the first place was because super tight ass Sarver found someone with not much experience to take a relatively low paying, high responsibility job. I just hope Ishbia makes the right decision and get someone with real success and not just getting his mate a job (ie Isiah Thomas)

[bwgood77]

I think a soft reset is in order this summer.

We likely won't get a great value out of trading KD, but it's worth pursuing a trade if it helps short-term and long-term.

I don't see us trading Booker under any circumstances unless he specifically asks to be traded. I'm not sure he'd do that at this stage in his career. Since Ishbia had the courtesy of allowing KD to choose his destination by NOT trading him to the Warriors OR Grizzlies, I would assume he will give Booker that same courtesy. This goes a long way in helping set a certain precedence for potential free agents in the future.

Beal won't be moved until his contract is closer to expiring.

Royce O'Neal contract runs until 2027-28 season. It's a great valuable contract for a quality veteran. Ideally the Suns can move him to a championship caliber team for a younger player but we'll see. Same with Grayson Allen.

I'm of the same mindset.

I think we need a soft reset. Sell KD to the highest bidder, ideally there's some useful players coming back (but focus on draft capital) and continue to compete with Book as the man. As I've said before, trading Book is a non-starter, UNLESS we get some messaging from his camp that he wants out. We're not gonna do him like the Mavs did Luka.

Move Grayson for more size (and maybe a pick). Keep Royce as he probably has more value to us than on the market and he does a lot of what Grayson does but with more size and rebounding.

I think if they are smart, they may talk to Book and say "look, we tried with KD, but obviously it's not working, so we feel it is best to move him and we feel we need to get younger, more athletic, better defensively, and bigger" and discuss what they think they can do and what is possible.

I think it kind of sucks because I think it's smart for both parties to move on. I think it's pretty obvious that if we keep Book as a Suns lifer, we now don't have the capital or assets to get enough pieces around him to compete at a high level. Now we could hold out for 2027 free agency and hope we can sign some star, but is Book, some other star and a bunch of journeyman role players much different?

The thing is, if we can't trade Book to Houston for our picks, a rebuild doesn't make total sense unless we somehow get a bunch of good young players for him from another team and/or picks we know are good.

What is interesting is that Booker's career is kind of mirroring Beal's. Book is looking great as a playmaker averaging 6.6 apg, after hitting his career highs in scoring the last couple of years. Beal, at 28, the year after he averaged over 31 ppg, averaged 6.6 apg when he was 28. Beal experienced winning some playoff rounds earlier in his career than Book did, whereas Book didn't do so until we got Paul.

Beal did start dealing with more injuries that year when he was 28, and then the max contract that he got and now Book has, started looking worse and worse.

Booker is viewed as a premier asset right now I believe. But I think that value probably could start to decline in not too long. Right now he is in his absolute prime (though he is having a down year shooting overall), but he has 3 more years on his deal before he is an existing FA. I'm not saying he will get a lot worse soon or anything, but he will be under contract for fewer years and approaching the wrong side of 30.

Beal was one of the first 35% super maxes though, and with his injuries, his contract has declined. With some of these big extensions into the $70 millions for some of these guys like Embiid, some of these contracts that have already been signed from like Booker's class probably won't ever look like a bad contract.

I know you both stated that you don't think we would trade him under any circumstances, but would you risk letting him go into UFA in 3 years? We could potentially extend him.

How good, realistically, with the state of the rest of the west, do you think we can get with him? Now I understand that you can also ask the question how good could we get without him?

It's quite the quandary. Because he's been great for the franchise overall, even though it's mostly come with losing a lot of games, outside of the Paul years, but he has been the bright spot. But he does have his supermax, so is it better to keep him here or gauge with him how he feels? Maybe say we would love for you to be a Sun for life but we also know we are not as competitive as either of us would have liked, and we understand if you'd like to get to a contender. I am not sure the best way to broach or pose that conversation. But it seems like an obvious one that should be had.

I also wish Dillon Brooks wasn't in Houston. I feel like if we do trade him there we need to take Brooks, though I wouldn't really want to...he makes a bit much for what he does. Though we did want him before and he plays 30+ minutes for a really good Houston game, so clearly he must be contributing quite a bit. He has always brought toughness and scrappiness, from when he was at Oregon playing against AZ. Of course I'd prefer Green along with one of their PFs and maybe another prospect and a couple picks.

But I digress.

Back to my question, do you just go into UFA with him in 3 years? Do you think we extend him? Do you think he will want to extend if we trade KD? Do you think he will want to stay here? I think he would want to if he knew we would be competitive, but he doesn't seem to be quite at the tier where he makes us relevant by himself, like Dirk, or Kobe, where those guys would not miss the playoffs regardless and you just needed the pieces.

[lilfishi22]

I think a soft reset is in order this summer.

We likely won't get a great value out of trading KD, but it's worth pursuing a trade if it helps short-term and long-term.

I don't see us trading Booker under any circumstances unless he specifically asks to be traded. I'm not sure he'd do that at this stage in his career. Since Ishbia had the courtesy of allowing KD to choose his destination by NOT trading him to the Warriors OR Grizzlies, I would assume he will give Booker that same courtesy. This goes a long way in helping set a certain precedence for potential free agents in the future.

Beal won't be moved until his contract is closer to expiring.

Royce O'Neal contract runs until 2027-28 season. It's a great valuable contract for a quality veteran. Ideally the Suns can move him to a championship caliber team for a younger player but we'll see. Same with Grayson Allen.

I'm of the same mindset.

I think we need a soft reset. Sell KD to the highest bidder, ideally there's some useful players coming back (but focus on draft capital) and continue to compete with Book as the man. As I've said before, trading Book is a non-starter, UNLESS we get some messaging from his camp that he wants out. We're not gonna do him like the Mavs did Luka.

Move Grayson for more size (and maybe a pick). Keep Royce as he probably has more value to us than on the market and he does a lot of what Grayson does but with more size and rebounding.

I think if they are smart, they may talk to Book and say "look, we tried with KD, but obviously it's not working, so we feel it is best to move him and we feel we need to get younger, more athletic, better defensively, and bigger" and discuss what they think they can do and what is possible.

I think it kind of sucks because I think it's smart for both parties to move on. I think it's pretty obvious that if we keep Book as a Suns lifer, we now don't have the capital or assets to get enough pieces around him to compete at a high level. Now we could hold out for 2027 free agency and hope we can sign some star, but is Book, some other star and a bunch of journeyman role players much different?

The thing is, if we can't trade Book to Houston for our picks, a rebuild doesn't make total sense unless we somehow get a bunch of good young players for him from another team and/or picks we know are good.

What is interesting is that Booker's career is kind of mirroring Beal's. Book is looking great as a playmaker averaging 6.6 apg, after hitting his career highs in scoring the last couple of years. Beal, at 28, the year after he averaged over 31 ppg, averaged 6.6 apg when he was 28. Beal experienced winning some playoff rounds earlier in his career than Book did, whereas Book didn't do so until we got Paul.

Beal did start dealing with more injuries that year when he was 28, and then the max contract that he got and now Book has, started looking worse and worse.

Booker is viewed as a premier asset right now I believe. But I think that value probably could start to decline in not too long. Right now he is in his absolute prime (though he is having a down year shooting overall), but he has 3 more years on his deal before he is an existing FA. I'm not saying he will get a lot worse soon or anything, but he will be under contract for fewer years and approaching the wrong side of 30.

Beal was one of the first 35% super maxes though, and with his injuries, his contract has declined. With some of these big extensions into the $70 millions for some of these guys like Embiid, some of these contracts that have already been signed from like Booker's class probably won't ever look like a bad contract.

I know you both stated that you don't think we would trade him under any circumstances, but would you risk letting him go into UFA in 3 years? We could potentially extend him.

How good, realistically, with the state of the rest of the west, do you think we can get with him? Now I understand that you can also ask the question how good could we get without him?

It's quite the quandary. Because he's been great for the franchise overall, even though it's mostly come with losing a lot of games, outside of the Paul years, but he has been the bright spot. But he does have his supermax, so is it better to keep him here or gauge with him how he feels? Maybe say we would love for you to be a Sun for life but we also know we are not as competitive as either of us would have liked, and we understand if you'd like to get to a contender. I am not sure the best way to broach or pose that conversation. But it seems like an obvious one that should be had.

I also wish Dillon Brooks wasn't in Houston. I feel like if we do trade him there we need to take Brooks, though I wouldn't really want to...he makes a bit much for what he does. Though we did want him before and he plays 30+ minutes for a really good Houston game, so clearly he must be contributing quite a bit. He has always brought toughness and scrappiness, from when he was at Oregon playing against AZ. Of course I'd prefer Green along with one of their PFs and maybe another prospect and a couple picks.

My view on Book is simply that, he's shown loyalty to this franchise and we're not gonna do him dirty. Objectively, yeah maybe it's smart to have that conversation but I don't think he's a dummy either and he can see we're clearly not at the same level of competitiveness as a few years ago so he could be onboard with revamping without the conversation going down the parting ways path. A big part of me also just find it hard to move on from Book given what he means to this franchise, he's been a model franchise player with the accolades and pretty good success so I wouldn't mind seeing him retire a Sun. I also know it's a rarity these days and he may one day decide it's in both party's interest to move on and when that day comes, sure let's talk about potential trade returns but until then, I find it a bit pointless to waste mind space on the thought if it's not something that is likely in the short term.

Beal's contract is bad simply because of the NTC. Without it, I don't think the raw salary number is that scary or problematic, especially in this day and age where $60m contracts are starting to get signed. I think we'll just end up living with it unless he gives us a handful of teams he'd waive his NTC for and we find a suitable trade. It's been disappointing but it's what happens when you double down, sometimes you win big, other times you get stung worse. I suppose the optimistic view is that Beal can still play, he's still a good player that can get you 20 on any given night and he's been a pro throughout all of this. Like I find it really hard to not like the guy and I also find it pretty gross the hate he (and his family) are getting simply because he's getting paid a lot of money. In the grand scheme of things, the hate should be directed at Jones/Ish for pulling the trade off, not Beal.

But I digress.

Back to my question, do you just go into UFA with him in 3 years? Do you think we extend him? Do you think he will want to extend if we trade KD? Do you think he will want to stay here? I think he would want to if he knew we would be competitive, but he doesn't seem to be quite at the tier where he makes us relevant by himself, like Dirk, or Kobe, where those guys would not miss the playoffs regardless and you just needed the pieces.

All I can say is that as long as he's here, I would want to put together a competitive team

We may decide this offseason to mutually part ways with him, who knows. But until that happens, I'd want us to make the most of Book's prime.

[sunskerr]

Yeah I just don't see how we have the cap space and draft capital to retool into a real competitor with Booker this off-season or even 2026. It'd have to be some type of miracle falling from the sky but with the model I have in my head about team building I just don't like bother to take those things into account. Have to work with what we've got.

It's not that I WANT to trade him, it's just that there doesn't seem to be any other option.

Maybe some team gets desperate for Durant but again that's sort of the miracle scenario thing that I just don't care really to bet on and even then we're still capped out with Bradley Beal so it's not like big FAs can come here and change our fortune.

So that's sort of my projection. Always subject to change but right now I think thats where we're at.

And it's kind of sad to think about because a lot of us, myself included, really thought we'd finally get a championship with Booker and we almost did. Closest the team had ever come.

[thamadkant]

<> Booker is the golden ticket to salvage the rest of this decade. Rockets is the ideal partner, since they want to win a ring soon. Ishiba should be talking to Rockets daily.

<> KD has limited suitors due to his age. The ones who could use him are Spurs, Pistons, Rockets, Thunder, Grizzlies.

[Dr Manute]

Is it just my opinion, or does everytime we make a trade, we get taken to the cleaners - We always give up way too much We need to hire someone who can make us better with each trade not worse. Someone who has better negotiating skills as wall as a solid vision.

[Dr Manute]

Our only hope is we establish a solid vision for how we want the team to look and play like - an identity. Then find low cost, high return pieces that fit that vision - diamonds in the rough that work because they fit like a puzzle piece.

[Dr Manute]

We did well drafting Bridges, Cam, Camarra, Dunn, and Oso. Too bad only 2 of them are still Suns.

[sunsbg]

Is it just my opinion, or does everytime we make a trade, we get taken to the cleaners - We always give up way too much We need to hire someone who can make us better with each trade not worse. Someone who has better negotiating skills as wall as a solid vision.

It was a relief they didn't make a major trade before the deadline. All of them starting with KD one have been disastrous. Butler would have been just another one. KD, Beal, DA - we should have a separate discussion which is the worst trade. They all have been a total failure, but which is the winner of destroying the franchise for the foreseeable future.

[Frank Lee]

Is it just my opinion, or does everytime we make a trade, we get taken to the cleaners - We always give up way too much We need to hire someone who can make us better with each trade not worse. Someone who has better negotiating skills as wall as a solid vision.

It was a relief they didn't make a major trade before the deadline. All of them starting with KD one have been disastrous. Butler would have been just another one. KD, Beal, DA - we should have a separate discussion which is the worst trade. They all have been a total failure, but which is the winner of destroying the franchise for the foreseeable future.

Wishbia’s maniacal start has crippled this franchise into such disrepair. I don’t imagine any type of contender in phnx for 6-7 yrs minimum. We have to face teams led by Jocic, Wemby, SGA, and Luka for the next decade. Our pseudo superstar max Booker is not on their level and has solidified himself, at best, as a second fiddle with limited/no leadership skills. Frankly, he has peaked as a player, a one trick pony at that. Yay loyal Book, but he will be grossly overpaid if he stays. Heck, he’s over paid now and is a supermax by default.

Finding another superstar to purchase is Wishbia’s chosen route. He’s accumulating draft picks for trade purposes. There will never be a true rebuild based on drafting a sure star, as asshat-in-charge gave away any chance we have for lottery picks. The teams that own them sure as hell aren’t giving them back like so many of you wish.
Not for the Dim Reaper, nor for ChuckerBook.

It’s foolish to emotionally support this team. The worse is yet to come… and it’s being delivered by this paper pushing ego maniac Wishbia. F him. In 2 short yrs he’s ruined the next 10.

[sunsbg]

Based on WT KD frustrated and probably gone in the offseason. Booker wants to remain Suns franchise face. My bet once Beal is gone they will find another co-star and become an average team fighting for playoffs spot, but no real contender for next 10y.

[BobbieL]

<> Booker is the golden ticket to salvage the rest of this decade. Rockets is the ideal partner, since they want to win a ring soon. Ishiba should be talking to Rockets daily.

<> KD has limited suitors due to his age. The ones who could use him are Spurs, Pistons, Rockets, Thunder, Grizzlies.

I agree with both of these. This argument that Booker has been loyal to the Suns and can stay as long as he wants, I say "nonsense." The goal is to win an NBA Title - or it should be. And at this point, the roster is not constructed and the best way to move forward is to trade Durant and Booker.

Now for Durant - you are correct - limited suitors so you take a good trade

Booker though could be the golden ticket that really jumps starts this rebuild. And the Rockets, if they flame out this spring in the playoffs - should be the team to call.

Lastly, Ishbia will need to practice patience and find the right GM to manage the rebuild.

[matt131]

No matter what we do, if the Suns truly want to be successful, there are a few big steps to take.

1. Fire James Jones and tell Josh Bartelstein he's not in charge of player acquisition either.
2. Hire a proven GM. This person does not need to be revered by the entire league, but they need to have established relationships with other teams and needs to be a big enough name that they can come in an be the immediate leader of the franchise's basketball decisions.
3. Ishbia needs to do some soul searching and realize he needs to take backseat to this new GM. Lead as an owner and improve the franchise and fan experience, but leave the team building to the GM.

Will numbers 1 and 2 happen? I would hope so. James Jones doesn't exactly deserve a pass anymore. He truly isn't the 'worst' GM in the world, but there have been enough bad decisions even before Ishbia got here and enough failures that he's run out of time.

Will number 3 happen? I don't want to think of our future if it does not. If it does, I honestly think we could have an amazing team in a few years. A competent GM with an owner who is willing to spend ANY amount of money? SIgn me up for that.

As for the specifics of improving the roster, I'll leave that up to the new GM. My personal bias would be to trade KD and keep Booker. However, if the new GM got a good package for Booker, I'd be okay with it. It would definitely feel weird for us to part ways, but it could be exciting to start anew.

[bwgood77]

No matter what we do, if the Suns truly want to be successful, there are a few big steps to take.

1. Fire James Jones and tell Josh Bartelstein he's not in charge of player acquisition either.
2. Hire a proven GM. This person does not need to be revered by the entire league, but they need to have established relationships with other teams and needs to be a big enough name that they can come in an be the immediate leader of the franchise's basketball decisions.
3. Ishbia needs to do some soul searching and realize he needs to take backseat to this new GM. Lead as an owner and improve the franchise and fan experience, but leave the team building to the GM.

Will numbers 1 and 2 happen? I would hope so. James Jones doesn't exactly deserve a pass anymore. He truly isn't the 'worst' GM in the world, but there have been enough bad decisions even before Ishbia got here and enough failures that he's run out of time.

Will number 3 happen? I don't want to think of our future if it does not. If it does, I honestly think we could have an amazing team in a few years. A competent GM with an owner who is willing to spend ANY amount of money? SIgn me up for that.

As for the specifics of improving the roster, I'll leave that up to the new GM. My personal bias would be to trade KD and keep Booker. However, if the new GM got a good package for Booker, I'd be okay with it. It would definitely feel weird for us to part ways, but it could be exciting to start anew.

Yeah, Booker is tough. Watching the scoring montage of the years and the tribute and all his time, he's been the one guy here over the last decade. But after tough years and finally breaking through with CP3, and make that KD trade, it's just unfortunate we don't have any picks or assets let to get us enough to put a contending team around him. We can get something for KD. But I don't even know if anyone else is even worth a first. So we'd need to really hit on our late picks and have them contribute fast or turn those late picks into something really good in a trade, but they just are not that valuable.

If we could hit big on a pick and then hit big in 27 free agency, that would be the ONLY hope, but Book would be an UFA the next year and could leave with nothing and we wouldn't have our picks in 29 or 31.

The thing is, it seems like it would do right by him and he has to know it too, that if he were to go to Houston with that elite defense, size, athleticism, and Udoka, that they are right up there but without a real go to scorer. Book could go to Houston and really compete and maybe beat the SGA Thunder, Luka Lakers, Ja/JJJ Grizz....those teams that will be the real tough playoff outs in the coming years.

He would probably be really high up there as an MVP candidate in the 2nd stage in his career. We could root for him there while knowing he brought us back value.

It would be great if he could retire a Sun and we could get competitive again, but the best teams are SO good, I think it will probably do neither of us any good to continue to prolong it.

[BobbieL]

No matter what we do, if the Suns truly want to be successful, there are a few big steps to take.

1. Fire James Jones and tell Josh Bartelstein he's not in charge of player acquisition either.
2. Hire a proven GM. This person does not need to be revered by the entire league, but they need to have established relationships with other teams and needs to be a big enough name that they can come in an be the immediate leader of the franchise's basketball decisions.
3. Ishbia needs to do some soul searching and realize he needs to take backseat to this new GM. Lead as an owner and improve the franchise and fan experience, but leave the team building to the GM.

Will numbers 1 and 2 happen? I would hope so. James Jones doesn't exactly deserve a pass anymore. He truly isn't the 'worst' GM in the world, but there have been enough bad decisions even before Ishbia got here and enough failures that he's run out of time.

Will number 3 happen? I don't want to think of our future if it does not. If it does, I honestly think we could have an amazing team in a few years. A competent GM with an owner who is willing to spend ANY amount of money? SIgn me up for that.

As for the specifics of improving the roster, I'll leave that up to the new GM. My personal bias would be to trade KD and keep Booker. However, if the new GM got a good package for Booker, I'd be okay with it. It would definitely feel weird for us to part ways, but it could be exciting to start anew.

Yeah, Booker is tough. Watching the scoring montage of the years and the tribute and all his time, he's been the one guy here over the last decade. But after tough years and finally breaking through with CP3, and make that KD trade, it's just unfortunate we don't have any picks or assets let to get us enough to put a contending team around him. We can get something for KD. But I don't even know if anyone else is even worth a first. So we'd need to really hit on our late picks and have them contribute fast or turn those late picks into something really good in a trade, but they just are not that valuable.

If we could hit big on a pick and then hit big in 27 free agency, that would be the ONLY hope, but Book would be an UFA the next year and could leave with nothing and we wouldn't have our picks in 29 or 31.

The thing is, it seems like it would do right by him and he has to know it too, that if he were to go to Houston with that elite defense, size, athleticism, and Udoka, that they are right up there but without a real go to scorer. Book could go to Houston and really compete and maybe beat the SGA Thunder, Luka Lakers, Ja/JJJ Grizz....those teams that will be the real tough playoff outs in the coming years.

He would probably be really high up there as an MVP candidate in the 2nd stage in his career. We could root for him there while knowing he brought us back value.

It would be great if he could retire a Sun and we could get competitive again, but the best teams are SO good, I think it will probably do neither of us any good to continue to prolong it.

I guess the Booker question can be better answered if I see the package for Durant trade and maybe Allen. If the suns get the picks and players back that put the right course, maybe you keep Booker

[bwgood77]

No matter what we do, if the Suns truly want to be successful, there are a few big steps to take.

1. Fire James Jones and tell Josh Bartelstein he's not in charge of player acquisition either.
2. Hire a proven GM. This person does not need to be revered by the entire league, but they need to have established relationships with other teams and needs to be a big enough name that they can come in an be the immediate leader of the franchise's basketball decisions.
3. Ishbia needs to do some soul searching and realize he needs to take backseat to this new GM. Lead as an owner and improve the franchise and fan experience, but leave the team building to the GM.

Will numbers 1 and 2 happen? I would hope so. James Jones doesn't exactly deserve a pass anymore. He truly isn't the 'worst' GM in the world, but there have been enough bad decisions even before Ishbia got here and enough failures that he's run out of time.

Will number 3 happen? I don't want to think of our future if it does not. If it does, I honestly think we could have an amazing team in a few years. A competent GM with an owner who is willing to spend ANY amount of money? SIgn me up for that.

As for the specifics of improving the roster, I'll leave that up to the new GM. My personal bias would be to trade KD and keep Booker. However, if the new GM got a good package for Booker, I'd be okay with it. It would definitely feel weird for us to part ways, but it could be exciting to start anew.

Yeah, Booker is tough. Watching the scoring montage of the years and the tribute and all his time, he's been the one guy here over the last decade. But after tough years and finally breaking through with CP3, and make that KD trade, it's just unfortunate we don't have any picks or assets let to get us enough to put a contending team around him. We can get something for KD. But I don't even know if anyone else is even worth a first. So we'd need to really hit on our late picks and have them contribute fast or turn those late picks into something really good in a trade, but they just are not that valuable.

If we could hit big on a pick and then hit big in 27 free agency, that would be the ONLY hope, but Book would be an UFA the next year and could leave with nothing and we wouldn't have our picks in 29 or 31.

The thing is, it seems like it would do right by him and he has to know it too, that if he were to go to Houston with that elite defense, size, athleticism, and Udoka, that they are right up there but without a real go to scorer. Book could go to Houston and really compete and maybe beat the SGA Thunder, Luka Lakers, Ja/JJJ Grizz....those teams that will be the real tough playoff outs in the coming years.

He would probably be really high up there as an MVP candidate in the 2nd stage in his career. We could root for him there while knowing he brought us back value.

It would be great if he could retire a Sun and we could get competitive again, but the best teams are SO good, I think it will probably do neither of us any good to continue to prolong it.

I guess the Booker question can be better answered if I see the package for Durant trade and maybe Allen. If the suns get the picks and players back that put the right course, maybe you keep Booker

Yeah, for example if that Warriors are/were really ready to trade Butler, Kuminga and a couple firsts for KD, then you could try that for a year, but I basically think Butler will be on his last team so we won't ever trade him. But if we can get two firsts, that's pretty good for post Butler...along with Kuminga. But if he didn't want to go then, he may not now.e

But of course if we can get Chet or Jalen or Amen or some of these guys people expect KD is worth right now, then yeah, that would be a good add to Book. I think Presti's smart though so I don't see him trading those guys. I think he's a lot smarter than Ish.

[thamadkant]

Is it just my opinion, or does everytime we make a trade, we get taken to the cleaners - We always give up way too much We need to hire someone who can make us better with each trade not worse. Someone who has better negotiating skills as wall as a solid vision.

Because other GMs and owners sense desperation from Ishiba.... they can sense Ishiba wants to win urgently and will sacrifice value as long as Ishiba thinks the Suns can go all the way.