Interesting stat at this point in the season

[BringinDaRuckus]

At this stage in the season, here is an interesting stat(or scary... depends how you look at it).

Now my numbers but be off as I did this by hand. But we have played 15 teams right now with records at .500 or above. Out of those games we have won.... 7.

7 of our 23 wins are from teams .500 or above. We can't even beat half of the teams at/above .500.

Uhhhhhh yeah..... 2 of those came from Orlando, 1 from San Antonio(minus Parker), 2 from Toronto, 1 from Houston, and 1 from Washington. And out of that group, only Orlando and San Antonio are the only ones substantially above .500.

Scary?

[Christine-In-AZ]

And!

Both time New Orleans beat the PHX, the Hornets were on the back end of a back-to-back. the Suns having 2 and 1 day rests. Hornets outscored the Suns in the 4th quarter in both victories.





the sky is lower than it used to be

...ride it out? Or roll the dice?

[BringinDaRuckus]

Well I am all for riding it out. But it's just scary because it's pretty well known that the beginning of our season was pretty soft. And the challanges we did face, we couldn't even win half of them. Unfortunately by riding it out, it will be too late to make big changes. Our toughest scehdule is still on it's way...

[-SDU-]

how did the spurs go last year in december / january?

who knows, who cares? its about how they went in may and june

[Black Jesus 1]

Jesus, calm the hell down. Every loss it's mass suicide waiting to happen. IT'S EARLY JANUARY. Sure it's a little frustrating..but jeez, saying we can't do it and doubting this team? 1 game. Yay.

[kimmi13]

Most of the games against the top tier teams that we lost were winnable. We lost to the Hornets by a point last time, and tonight we should have won. The game against Dallas was very close (three points?). The only game that was totally out of hand was the home opener with the Lakers. It is disappointing that we have not been able to get over the hump in these games but we are right there in every one of them. It is ridiculous to declare this season over when we have lost a few close games to top teams. We will be there in the end.

[ma_falaa_50]

I am not saying the sky is falling but its been the same with this team all season and the last 40 yrs. They win by stacking wins but when the going gets tough they get going.

I really dont want the SA analogy because the suns do not deserve to be even mentioned ont the smae sentence right now. even if the spurs lose the next 5 games- it doesnt really matter because at the end of the day they have 4 championship banners. the suns have zero so they are going to have to prove the fans that they deserve some slack.

There is no excuse for missing 11 FTs ar giving up 15 offensive boards a game. shooting 38 percent from when 90 percent of them are wide open threes. There is no reason that a guy like shawn marion an 8 yr veteran play inconsistently. He is only humand much like these guys but playing inconsistently is more lack of work ethic than being human. Im sick of Marion shooting shots he thinks he can make or Lb going 1 on 1. I dont care IF this isnt by design fact is it has been going on for 2 WHOLE MONTHS!!!!.

These team needs to grow up.

[mkot]

True the regular isn't everything, but I think it's pretty weak to say 'it's just the regular season' after every loss. I think that's a flawed mentality. The regular season tells you who you are and where you're at as a team. As of now, we aren't too good. They aren't going to convince me (or many Suns fans for that matter) they're championship caliber with the way they're playing right now. They have work to do, the sky isn't falling, the team isn't doomed, but I think there's issues with this team that are at least concerning.

[BringinDaRuckus]

Jesus, calm the hell down. Every loss it's mass suicide waiting to happen. IT'S EARLY JANUARY. Sure it's a little frustrating..but jeez, saying we can't do it and doubting this team? 1 game. Yay.

I never said the sky was falling. I am also not expecting to win every game, even against the tougher teams. I am saying though we can't even win half of them. Yeah regular season doesn't give you a trophy, but I highly doubt the players think that(if they are true professionals).

I merely pointed out some interesting numbers. If I can recall (it's 4:22am I just got home), I never once said we need to fire Coach Mike D or blow up the team.

I am not an optimist. I am not a pessimist. I am a realist.

[KJ7]

Here's another stat. We've played all of 2 games at home out of those 7. Ironically, we've lost both.

Y'know SanAn is 6-5 against play-off teams. I know it's better than our record but they're not exactly blowing good teams away either. Spurs are only 5-7 away from home. I bet they aren't exactly storming the streets with pitchforks and torches tho are they.

Like I said in the game thread. As long as we learn from our mistakes then that's fine with me. Some ppl just think we go thru the motions but lets not forget Hill didn't just magically work his way into the system and Diaw hasn't just magically worked his way into form. The coaching staff work hard to make adjustments and see what problems we've had in the past and how to counter them. Just because we aren't there witnessing it some ppl just think it doesn't happen. I'll reserve my judgment later in the season if I see things are better or if we are making the same mistakes.

[JHo&T.O.FaSho]

I think this guy is on to something....

[holidayhell]

When the Suns beat a playoff team from the West who are healthy let me know. Let alone losing to the teams with the worst records in the NBA.

The Spurs comparisons are dumb.

[Black Jesus 1]

-= original quote snipped =-



I never said the sky was falling. I am also not expecting to win every game, even against the tougher teams. I am saying though we can't even win half of them. Yeah regular season doesn't give you a trophy, but I highly doubt the players think that(if they are true professionals).

I merely pointed out some interesting numbers. If I can recall (it's 4:22am I just got home), I never once said we need to fire Coach Mike D or blow up the team.

I am not an optimist. I am not a pessimist. I am a realist.

I was speakin more in general to the doubters and pessimists who show up after every loss, my bad.

[Cash]

1-6 against the West's top 8 is definitely something to be concerned about. No need to give up on the season, but it's pretty stupid to pretend that the regular season is 100% meaningless. You hear talk all the time about teams "flipping the switch." I think it's mostly BS, but even if it isn't, who are the teams that supposedly do it? The post-championship Pistons, the Spurs, the Kobe-Shaq Lakers, Shaq with the Heat, any others? What's the common thread here? They're all teams/players who have already won championships, not teams still looking for their first. Guys with rings are supposed to not care until the playoffs, then "flip the switch." Guys without them are supposed to be "hungry."

The Spurs, for whom the regular season is supposedly unimportant, are still above .500 against potential playoff teams. Fine. When they "flip the switch," that percentage will go up (allegedly). But even if you grant that the Suns are lying low, and will turn it up a notch when the playoffs start, will one notch be enough to bring 1-6 up above .500? I personally don't think so. The Suns need about 4-5 switches to flip in order to beat 3 Western teams, then the Celtics or Pistons in the Finals.

Now, one thing that is fairly encouraging for you "regular season is meaningless" peoples is something mkot brought up in another thread. In the Hornets game the other night, Chris Paul played all 48 minutes, and the rest of the Hornets' starters all played huge minutes (except for their 2nd-best player, who missed the game). Meanwhile, D'Antoni actually played his bench significant time in a close game for once, and experimented with unusual lineups, which he usually doesn't do. In other words, the Hornets treated it like a playoff game, and the Suns treated it like a tune-up game. And it was still close. It was very similar to some of those Suns-Spurs regular season matchups the past few years, where the Suns would barely grind out a win & afterward talk about how big a win it was, while the Spurs pretty much didn't give a crap. (We already had one of those this year, where the Suns needed everything in their arsenal to overcome a Parker-less Spurs team.)

My opinion: This Suns team, as presently constituted, has no realistic chance to win the NBA championship, but will definitely win at least 50 games and probably more. So rather than de-emphasize the regular season, I'm caring more about it, because that's where I expect this season's joy to come from.

[mkot]

My opinion: This Suns team, as presently constituted, has no realistic chance to win the NBA championship, but will definitely win at least 50 games and probably more. So rather than de-emphasize the regular season, I'm caring more about it, because that's where I expect this season's joy to come from.

That's a bit much IMO.

Although this team hasn't convince me they are championship caliber, but I've seen flashes of greatness, both offensively and defensively. I think we're more equipped for the playoffs personnel wise, we just aren't taking full advantage because we're trying to run and gun for the entire game. We should run, becasue we're a running team, but we have Amare inside, I'd say 80% of our offense should move the towards him and work inside out, take advantage of Nash, Raja and LB shooting. We have Hills ability to put the ball on the floor, hit the midrange or slash to the basket. We have Shawn's ability to move without the ball, cut and finish at the rim. When we play like that, we won. Numbers don't lie. We won every game when Amare is the focal point of our offense and we work inside out with Hill and Shawn slashing, Nash, LB and Raja shooting. We should stay with it.

When we jack up 3s, play pick and roll to get 3s, and make guys like Shawn, Hill and Boris 3pt shooters, we lost. Simple formula. Amare should be the sole focus of the offense ala Howard, Duncan, Yao. This team just have to have that strong mentality to work inside-out, too many times they like to play outside-in. Only in the playoffs we work through Amare more. That's why it seems like Amare is a complete different animal in the post season, he gets the ball.

If we're shooting well like we should, I don't mind the outside-in game a little more. But as of now, we aren't a great 3pt shooting team like we should because 2 guys who were great on 3s last season (Raja and LB) are not doing well from the arc. The Suns as a team are 7th in 3pt FG%... that is not bad, but not good enough for this team. We need to sit at the top IMO.

We have fixable issues, Raja and LB's shooting is broke, but I'd think, base on their track record, they will shoot better sooner or later. I also expect Amare to become more of the focal point in the offense when guys play more together - I know he will be in the playoff. And we need to stay healthy. Boris keep improving and be aggressive, then maybe there's hope...

[-SDU-]

rajas shooting is a HUGE loss so far

its why our first quarters are so good when barbs starts, because we get 3 point shooting from the SG position

but we cant really trust barbs on in the clutch hench why our ends arent so good

if we could get back the solid 3 point shooting from bell, then our starts will improve as will everything else

bells three point shooting is a bigger loss / cause to our issues than people seem to be noticing

[BringinDaRuckus]

Also, I have been thinking of this since the end of last season. But I am afraid that our team will be closely mimicking that of the Sacramento Kings between the years 2000-20005. They were a very exceptional offensive team that had core players to take the league by storm. I remember how exciting it was to watch them play. But that was their window. And unfortunately they could never get past the Lakers and Spurs in the west.

So they had a window of 5 SOLID seasons of playing great ball getting to the Conference Semis and Finals. After that the team eventually fell apart. C-Webb was no longer in All-Star form. Bibby was pretty solid. And Vlade was aging, but was still a key part in the teams' success. Peja and Doug Christie were great parts to fill around their 3 core players. And if memory serves me correct, their bench was pretty slim and at one point they lost C-Webb to major Knee surgery.

I don't know if anyone else sees it, but there are losts of things being mirrored between the Suns and Kings. The real indicator will be to see what happens this year(the fourth year Nash Era/Run-n-gun style) and next season(5th year... will it be our last chance at that point).

And no. I am not stating the sky is falling. I am not advocating the firing of Mike D. I am also not advocating the trading of players.

I am not an optimist. I am not a pessimist. I am a realist.

[-SDU-]

cwebbs was microfracture too

the main difference between the 2 i guess is cwebbs decline and the fact amare has managed to come back successfully

[BringinDaRuckus]

cwebbs was microfracture too

the main difference between the 2 i guess is cwebbs decline and the fact amare has managed to come back successfully

Yeah that is true. Forgot it was the same surgery. It also wasn't until late in C-Webbs career until he had his.

With his surgery and the aging Vlade, that's what sealed it in for that team. Also, if anyone remembers, Peja made some statements during the tail end of that window expressing his dislike for the role he had to take behind Bibby and C-Webb and at times Vlade(they would run a ton of plays through Vlade).

Like I said there are some things mirrored between the teams. Obviously we have Nash who is one of the best point guards, but thinks like Doug Christie = Bell. Amare = C-Webb. Marion = Peja. Nash = Bibby. Barbosa = Bobby Jackson. Diaw = Vlade.

And no, I am in no way stating that these players are equal to each other stat wise and caliber wise. Yes I know Barbs scored more than Jackson. But Jackson was instant offense off the bench a la Barbs. Yes I know Peja is a better shooter than Marion and Marion is a better rebounder than Peja.... but they both griped publicly. And yes, Nash is miles above and beyond Bibby. But they both ran the offenses at the PG position.

[nanoclarkology]

Here is a stat. The Suns are 13-0 when Amare gets a double-double.


Averages are up-to-date to the 12th win. This does not include the win over the Sonics.

32.5 MPG 127-196 64.8%fg 1-5 20%3pt 76-106 71.7%ft 3.16ORPG 7.67DRPG 12.3TRPG 1.25APG .92SPG 2.0BPG 2.42TOPG 3.8PFPG 27.6PPG

Yes, we have a really good chance of winning when Amare gets his. The Suns are good. There is no need to worry. They are giving and taking and when everything is put together there will be no stopping them.