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from a resident optimystical wearer of the optometrical orange tinted shades.

all this whinging makes me realise NONE of you people realise how lucky you are to be fans of such a great organisation, especially at this current time

Please....don't preach to me about 'how lucky' I am to be a fan of the Suns...

They are the ones that are lucky. Maybe when you get into your 4th decade of support, you might know what I am talking about.

Facts are...

this team IS experiencing chemistry problems... y'all willingly point that out...then conveniently say it will be OK come playoff time. Well here is a newsflash,....most 'chemistry' problems are solved by getting rid of the 'problems'...if you think these primadonas will just kiss and make up, you are mistaken. Just ask JJ or Shaq. This is as big of an issue as anything. We have gone from team-sings to team stings. It is pathetic how it has deteriorated...or maybe it was just masked well all along. Maybe Marion needs to go, and quickly. Its BS is what it is...and it is very detrimental.

this team plays w o e f u l defense. sure, thay manage to muster up a few good intense minutes a game...but defense is based on consistancy, and we have yet to play a good game of D, let alone a good quarter. It is said, defense wins championships...I didn't say it... some other whiner must have.

this team does not rebound the ball well. We are undersized, outhustled, and have poor fundamentals. Night in night out, we get beat up on the offensive glass. Our fast break opportunities have been reduced by the oppositions' attitude that we are softies in the paint, and the key to beating us, is to crash the boards.

This team is a yr older. Raja has been breaking down like an old dodge...two yrs running. Diaw has regressed and now is practically a project player, trying to find decent contribution minutes. Barbo has stagnated and appears to be comfortable being a chucker. Marion continues his Space Ghost routine of now you see him, now you don't. Stat gets ignored, then frustrated, then fouls. Atleast Nash and Hill are professionals. The rest get infrequent opportunities to prove themselves.

this team's front office has done little or nothing over the past 3 yrs but spin out pseudopositive press releases... we have stripped our cupboards bare in order to save a buck...let trade exceptions expire...dealt away youth...signed up ancient ineffective warriors...bungled free agency signings, and over paid for talent. (Oh...but we got Grant Hill because he was willing to take pennies on his dollar). Do you think that will change? GD we are in need of some help right now...but don't have the balls to pay for it, nor the assets to acquire it. SOUND FAMILIAR? Yeah...and I am the lucky one.

this team gets out coached....and I am not the only one who brings that up. Pops and the Zenguin just lick their chops when they face MikeyD and his one dimensional mindset. We also lost Ivaroni. Who may have been more influential than what some will admit.

this teams fan base has been anesthetized to accept a bridesmaid mentality. The arena has long since lost the 'madhouse' mentality. The media dances around like yesmen, conditioned from yrs of praising the wonders of the ColonJellos...and now remain nuetered. A playoff run is a successful season. Dare anyone to question...anyone to doubt...without being labeled a Judas. Much like around here.


You want to call me a whiner....fine...put on yer shades, rub yer rabbits foot, and repeat after me...there is no place like home...there is no place like home....

I am an observer...with yrs of solar experience... and I don't see this team, in its present shape, has anymore of a chance than Utah, the fLakers, or Portland for that matter. We are ripe for the first round ouster.

and these are just the fact mam.

go support the freakin clippers would ya? honestly, you CLAIM to be talking facts, BS you are always taking the pessimistic view

if your world comes crashing down with small chemistry issues and silly losses in JANUARY which our starters play far less minutes than theirs then id start going to see a heart specialist if i was you

to quote someone special "perhaps you werent hugged enough as a child????" i dunno

Seriously, we have how many threads now talking about basically the same thing? Any more new ones get locked and I'm seriously considering doing a mass merge.

Why couldn't you just have posted this in the thread SDU started? You're just responding to his post afterall.

Why couldn't you just have posted this in the thread SDU started? You're just responding to his post afterall.

That thread was a 'Fire D'Antoni' thread. I am not advocating that. Sometimes I think you guys are charged per topic or something.

you CLAIM to be talking facts, BS you are always taking the pessimistic view

These points I make are echoed by many, including yourself. Is it 'pessimistic' to say we do not play defense or rebound?? Or is it a comment on measurable behavior and results? Is it negative to criticize our front office and their questionable behavior. I am a fan...it is my right to do so...as well as your right to applaud all of their wonderful moves.

if your world comes crashing down with small chemistry issues and silly losses

my world is not crashing... but my hopes for a championship have diminished over the past 3 yrs....when in fact, they should have improved.

ill take the bait, heres my response point for point

Please....don't preach to me about 'how lucky' I am to be a fan of the Suns...

They are the ones that are lucky.

oh yeah, im sure they get up in the morning and say grace at the table whilst thanking the lord that frank lee is a fan of the suns.

Winnign is alot of what its all about, but the fact is that that doesnt happen till june, why are you watching now? because there is more to a season than just the finals. we have so much fun and we get to watch some of the most entertaining basketball because we are lucky enough to be suns fans, if you dont think so and you cant enjoy it, then i just pity you

there is a BIG picture, it would be nice to win, but even if we dont that doesnt make us any less lucky to be a suns fan. does it make it frustrating? yes, but so be it

Maybe when you get into your 4th decade of support, you might know what I am talking about.

age explains the stubbornness and the negativity

Facts are...

this team IS experiencing chemistry problems... y'all willingly point that out...then conveniently say it will be OK come playoff time.Well here is a newsflash,....most 'chemistry' problems are solved by getting rid of the 'problems'...if you think these primadonas will just kiss and make up, you are mistaken. Just ask JJ or Shaq. This is as big of an issue as anything. We have gone from team-sings to team stings. It is pathetic how it has deteriorated...or maybe it was just masked well all along. Maybe Marion needs to go, and quickly. Its BS is what it is...and it is very detrimental.

i dont know how you work, but im my experience, little tiffs and personality issues can be resolved between ADULTS amicably with a little effort from both parties. you dont have to go trading someone every time people dont get on. ive noticed some chemistry things, but nothing seems unresolvable. if this team goes on a win streak everything dissapears. its like the regular season is a chore now because all the suns want to do is get back to where we lost last year and start again

so every regular season win is nothing, like "whatever lets get to the playoffs" and every loss is frustrating, so there is hardly any celebration and that seems to be bringing things down for sure, NOT unfixable

this team plays w o e f u l defense. sure, thay manage to muster up a few good intense minutes a game...but defense is based on consistancy, and we have yet to play a good game of D, let alone a good quarter. It is said, defense wins championships...I didn't say it... some other whiner must have.

we are improved on last year and last years team was good enough for a title. were an offensive team, thats our style, so be it

this team does not rebound the ball well. We are undersized, outhustled, and have poor fundamentals. Night in night out, we get beat up on the offensive glass. Our fast break opportunities have been reduced by the oppositions' attitude that we are softies in the paint, and the key to beating us, is to crash the boards.

we give up 6 more boards per game, we MUST box out and get the hustle boards more, agreed. it IS a key to beating us, but we have consistently won games whilst being outrebounded so its not the be all and end all. for every board we get outrebounded by ldue to going small we probably gain 4 points at the other end for being hard to defend

This team is a yr older. Raja has been breaking down like an old dodge...two yrs running.

he needs to get cracking - i cite bells lack of 3 point shooting as our biggest issue right now to the point where i would start barbs till bells shooting comes back

] Diaw has regressed and now is practically a project player, trying to find decent contribution minutes.

i dont think he has regressed as much as his role has regressed. You yourself must admit that diaw has looked far more aggressive in his last 10 games and when it starts going for him he should be improved on last season and early this season

Barbo has stagnated and appears to be comfortable being a chucker.

its what we tell him to do. when his shot is falling we hail him a hero. he is a great spark off the bench, but we do need to change his role to stop him being PG and to not always take the first shot. i dont mind him shooting, but i want it to go through some hands first

Marion continues his Space Ghost routine of now you see him, now you don't.

i think marion has been having a career year, not statistically, but his defense has been a level above anything i have ever seen from him

Stat gets ignored, then frustrated, then fouls.

agreed we need to feed him more

Atleast Nash and Hill are professionals.

how are skinner bell amare marion diaw and barbs not?

this team's front office has done little or nothing over the past 3 yrs but spin out pseudopositive press releases... we have stripped our cupboards bare in order to save a buck...let trade exceptions expire...dealt away youth...signed up ancient ineffective warriors...bungled free agency signings, and over paid for talent. (Oh...but we got Grant Hill because he was willing to take pennies on his dollar). Do you think that will change?

please tell me what massive moves the lakers, pistons, and spurs made in comparison? when you are a great team you dont need to trade every year. fact is we dont want to pay the tax, do i wish we would, SURE, but we wont, at least we kept the top 7 players on our team. sure we traded non rotation guys and draft picks, but oh well, we dont play non rotation guys and draft picks aim to be low if we are a champion. i am glad that in this era of penny pinching in phoenix we have managed not to trade marion amare nash or bell and bring in a cheap option just to save $$. There were people who said we could never keep nash amare and marion, well we did and im extremely happy about that

We are in need of some help right now...but don't have the balls to pay for it, nor the assets to acquire it. SOUND FAMILIAR? Yeah...and I am the lucky one.

please tell me 5 other teams in the league today whos fans are luckier than ours right now (dont bring up BS past titles, im talking about today - competing for the 08 title)

this team gets out coached....and I am not the only one who brings that up. Pops and the Zenguin just lick their chops when they face MikeyD and his one dimensional mindset.

yeah, thats right, phil jackson LOVES getting eliminated from the playoffs by us the last 2 years in a row. i LOVE how people can only name 2 coaches, 2 HALL OF FAME coaches who out coach us. If they are the only 2 coaches better than dantoni out there then dantoni is doing an awesome job. its like comparing Tmac to Kobe. One is great, but the other is just a whole lot more accomplished. Does that mean that the lesser one is a dud? no, its just that hes not an all time great like the other one

We also lost Ivaroni. Who may have been more influential than what some will admit.

go back to the thread where ivaroni left, i thought and still think that this was a HUGE loss

this teams fan base has been anesthetized to accept a bridesmaid mentality. The arena has long since lost the 'madhouse' mentality. The media dances around like yesmen, conditioned from yrs of praising the wonders of the ColonJellos...and now remain nuetered. A playoff run is a successful season. Dare anyone to question...anyone to doubt...without being labeled a Judas. Much like around here.

winning means the world, but 29 teams dont win the title every year. i want to win one desperately, but honestly, if you cant find something to enjoy from every suns game win lose or draw, then once again, i pity you. alot of close calls will make people hurt, it will dishearten people, so be it, its the teams job to pick the fans back up now. you might label a post season run a success, but dont you dare say for a second that that is what the players coaches and management think.

You want to call me a whiner....fine...put on yer shades, rub yer rabbits foot, and repeat after me...there is no place like home...there is no place like home....

you can act like a realist all you want, pretty much everyone knows you as captain negative around here, and besides, i choose to live my life as if the glass is half full.

I am an observer...with yrs of solar experience... and I don't see this team, in its present shape, has anymore of a chance than Utah, the fLakers, or Portland for that matter. We are ripe for the first round ouster.

BS we are a level above the jazz lakers and blazers

we arent up on the spurs pistons and celtics level like i thought we would be by now, but i still believe this current team can and will be there by the end of the season so that right now realistically puts us on the level with the mavs, hornets, rockets, nuggets etc as second round / third round ousters



slight improvement in some small areas should help us go to third / fourth round competitors, but i do admit if it started today we wouldnt be there yet

and these are just the fact mam.

as seen on planet crapulon

"resident optimystical wearer of the optometrical orange tinted shades. "

Is that smart talk for "Suns homer?"

actually its "sky is falling" talk for "SDU"

That thread was a 'Fire D'Antoni' thread. I am not advocating that. Sometimes I think you guys are charged per topic or something.

Great. So you shouldve put it in the "whats is going on with the suns" thread instead?

There's a reason we merge threads which has been explained ad nauseum.

That first sentence wasn't just aimed at you either (sorry if it came across that way).

Umm...maybe things aren't going perfectly as planned for you, but you can't say you're unlucky to be a Suns fan.

You got one of the best teams in the league, 2nd best record in the STACKED Western Conference, and at the very least you have to admit that you have a lot more to be happy about than most other fan bases.

Quit your whining.

He is dead on with the chemistry problems. They aren't gonna kiss and make up, the problems need to be shipped out. Who the problem(s) is will change from person to person, cuz as outsiders we can only express our opinions based on game stats and such. We don't see what goes on behind the scenes.

Look at the Spurs and now Celtics, prime examples of good chemistry and two teams that are prime playoff picks for the East and West.

I personally think that Marion needs to go. This is his "contract year" and I have yet to see anything that leads me to believe he is even worth resigning at what we are paying him now.

1. He can't finish around the basket anymore. He takes lazy shots instead of finsihing the way the Matrix would.

2. Amare has slowly become a better rebounder. If you ship out Marion and start Amare at the PF and Skinner at the C, I gauruntee you his rpg increases dramatically.

3. Out of everyone currently on the team, he would be the last one I would want to carry us in the playoffs. Nash can. Amare can. Barbs can. Heck.. even Diaw can (and has).

Here's the bottomline though..............

The front office is doing much more than we think or will ever know. We throw trades out there and get frustrated when nothing happens or when we think we are floundering. Kerr is a smart guy, I'd bet my life on the fact that he will never get taken through the cleaners in terms of a trade or FA signing.

Sun Scorched wrote:I personally think that Marion needs to go. This is his "contract year" and I have yet to see anything that leads me to believe he is even worth resigning at what we are paying him now.

1. He can't finish around the basket anymore. He takes lazy shots instead of finsihing the way the Matrix would.

2. Amare has slowly become a better rebounder. If you ship out Marion and start Amare at the PF and Skinner at the C, I gauruntee you his rpg increases dramatically.

3. Out of everyone currently on the team, he would be the last one I would want to carry us in the playoffs. Nash can. Amare can. Barbs can. Heck.. even Diaw can (and has).

Here's the bottomline though..............

The front office is doing much more than we think or will ever know. We throw trades out there and get frustrated when nothing happens or when we think we are floundering. Kerr is a smart guy, I'd bet my life on the fact that he will never get taken through the cleaners in terms of a trade or FA signing.

Totally agree, +1 good sir. Makes me anxious to see what moves he will make next, hopefully some at all.

Sun Scorched wrote:The front office is doing much more than we think or will ever know. We throw trades out there and get frustrated when nothing happens or when we think we are floundering. Kerr is a smart guy, I'd bet my life on the fact that he will never get taken through the cleaners in terms of a trade or FA signing.

Yikes. How do you plan on killing yourself, considering that Kerr traded a useful player on an expiring contract, an unprotected first-rounder in 2008, and an unprotected first-rounder in 2010 (which may be a Nashless season, and thus possibly the #1 overall pick) for a 2nd-rounder? Or considering that he traded a useful role player (who now leads the league in 3pt shooting) on a small expiring contract, along with the #24 pick in the 2007 draft, for just cash? Even Philly (and that legendary negotiator Billy Knight) managed to trade the #30 pick for an equal amount of cash plus a second-round pick, and they didn't have to include a useful young role player.

I'm actually fairly optimistic about Kerr as our GM, but even accepting that he was forced to cut salary, he got completely taken to the cleaners in both of those trades. But please don't off yourself anyway. We'd miss you.

Cash wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Yikes. How do you plan on killing yourself, considering that Kerr traded a useful player on an expiring contract, an unprotected first-rounder in 2008, and an unprotected first-rounder in 2010 (which may be a Nashless season, and thus possibly the #1 overall pick) for a 2nd-rounder? Or considering that he traded a useful role player (who now leads the league in 3pt shooting) on a small expiring contract, along with the #24 pick in the 2007 draft, for just cash? Even Philly (and that legendary negotiator Billy Knight) managed to trade the #30 pick for an equal amount of cash plus a second-round pick, and they didn't have to include a useful young role player.

I'm actually fairly optimistic about Kerr as our GM, but even accepting that he was forced to cut salary, he got completely taken to the cleaners in both of those trades. But please don't off yourself anyway. We'd miss you.

That's a bit unfair, seriously.

I'm not Sarver defender, but Kerr had no choice. Would you pay $16million for Kurt Thomas to play in the Suns system?

I always liked JJ but he doesn't bring anything close to what Grant Hill does.

Your post is way too lopsided. Let's throw in the fact that the Suns have one of the highest payroll, yet they managed to deal non-critical players away, got Grant Hill and Brian Skinner, and still have a very athletic team.

How would you have handled the situation if you were Kerr? Pray tell.

Suns_fan_2007 wrote:I always liked JJ but he doesn't bring anything close to what Grant Hill does

I agree with your points but this is plain wrong. JJ is a LEGIT ball handler who can play the point for 35mins a game and has the range we could really use. No doubt Hill fits great here - better than I thought - but to say he brings more than what JJ could is wrong.

^^ i might be wrong but i think he meant james jones??!!??!!??

ah DUH


my bad.

haha I need sleep

lol, did you mean to type sleep or sheep?