RealGM

Posted: **Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:26 pm**

I always loved watching the Suns fast break offense. It's amazing watching them get up and down the floor and drop 40 points a quarter. It was like everything they did was geared toward quickening the pace of the game and running the other team off the floor. But I guess your GM decided they needed a change for the playoffs when it becomes more of a halfcourt, defensive game and thought Shaq would address that.

Shaq is a halfcourt player. The Suns before Shaq were run and gun. So doesn't something need to change in the Suns offense? It doesn't seem to make sense to get Shaq, who makes 20 million, for just rebounding and some defense and not really play to his strength on offense which is dumping the ball down to the post and spreading the floor with shooters and playing off the attention he draws. Watching some Suns game with Shaq, it seems they barely throw the ball down low to him. He's just out there setting screens and barely touches the ball on offense.
Shouldn't the Suns, when the initial fastbreak score isn't there, pull it back and let Shaq set up in the post and throw it down to him and spread the floor with shooters? Play inside-out? Perhaps when Shaq is on the floor a lineup of:

Nash
Barbosa
Bell
Stoudamire
Shaq

Just wondering what you guys think about it?

Posted: **Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:36 pm**

No one claimed that the transition would be easy like Gasol to LA has been. It's going to take some time, but I think they will get it right.

Shaq claimed the Suns wouldn't have to adjust to him, he would adjust to them. He was absolutely wrong. The team is going to have to adjust to him if he is going to play heavy minutes. It's a two-way street.

With Marion gone a lot of pressure falls on Grant Hill, but he's not a great shooter. The starting lineup you see today is not going to be the starting lineup going into the playoffs.

They will adjust with time.

Posted: **Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:43 pm**

because it would take room away for nash to create and amare to drive in

simple as that

bye

Posted: **Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:49 pm**

The thing with shaq is, when suns are running the break, he's still lagging behind. So they're missing one player when they're running fast up front. They can't do the easy cherry picks suns are known for. He slows down the flow of offense. And teams can use the "hack a shaq" which is another negative. I guess we have to watch more games to see if it will work or not.

Posted: **Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:02 pm**

and this is not a bad option at all

ive seen the miami game against houston, where Shaq absolutely dominated. If he has the mobility to run up and down, he still has his offensive prowlness in the paint. In order to make the trade for Shaq a success, you have to redeem Shaq, make the league fear him again, as the most volatile paint scorer in the league.

Once teams recognize this, Shaq's dominance is retained, thus opening oppurtunities for Amare and Hill,Nash and Bell for open 3's.

People are going to have to start respecting Shaqs low post presense, which isnt hard to do, just feed him the ball, and pronto.

They also have to set the defensive tone of this team, Hill, Bell and Nash can create their shots but I'd rather take an open jumper than creating by myself.

This loss is a massive wake up call, yea its only the third game, but damn, we do have 3-4 formidable players.

Posted: **Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:03 pm**

aznkillabeezZz wrote:The thing with shaq is, when suns are running the break, he's still lagging behind. So they're missing one player when they're running fast up front. They can't do the easy cherry picks suns are known for. He slows down the flow of offense. And teams can use the "hack a shaq" which is another negative. I guess we have to watch more games to see if it will work or not.

you obviously have never watched a suns game becuase i can count on one hand the number of 5 man fast breaks we have run this season

90% of our fast breaks are nash hill bell barbs and occasionally diaw (and used to be marion, but now amare replaces marion)

our centre (whoever is on at the time) has never been a part of our break, and is only ever used as a trailer if the fast break doesnt work

thats why we get our C to throw the inbounds, whilst some other teams get a guard to do it so that the C can get down the court in time
we use the C because he doesnt figure in our first wave of offense

Posted: **Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:09 pm**

well losing marion didn't help, thats my point. Marion was a big part of the fast break. And Shaq is not part of it.

Posted: **Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:10 pm**

Like I said in the game thread, this is a MAJOR tweak in our philosophy. Right now, we're still trying to play like when Shawn is here. We just can't have Shaq in the lane, Nash dribble around with Amare roaming in the lane. That's when the spacing is terrible. When Shaq is in the game, we need legit half-court sets based around Shaq inside with cutting, screening away and putting our best shooters in position for jumpers. And then when Shaq leaves the game, that's when we can run our usual penetrate and kick offense, the high screen and rolls, the fast-break scoring.

This will be a LONG adjusting period and will be a growing pain. Hopefully by the end of March, we can have a good chemistry going into the playoffs.

Posted: **Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:14 pm**

^ marion wasnt replaced by shaq on the break

he was replaced by amare

marion was PF, amare is our PF now

suns fast break points per game is higher with shaq than it was with marion

so your point is an ignorant incorrect opinion

Posted: **Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:15 pm**

I'm sure D'Antoni will be going low post with Shaq soon. This is our beginning of a new season so were not going to look sharp right out of the box. I am ready to say we need to start Strawberry.

Posted: **Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:16 pm**

Mr Kot....you may be asking too much of Mr D'Ant.

Posted: **Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:18 pm**

Mr. Sun wrote:I'm sure D'Antoni will be going low post with Shaq soon. This is our beginning of a new season so were not going to look sharp right out of the box. I am ready to say we need to start Strawberry.

start strawberry?

thats a terrible idea bro

IF, and thats IF you change the lineup its one of 2 things

barbosa for bell to give us more speed that we lost from marion

or barbosa for hill and bell to SF to give us nash bell hill outside as 3 deadly three point options when shaq and amare are inside

Posted: **Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:32 pm**

-SDU- wrote:^

suns fast break points per game is higher with shaq than it was with marion

lol really? You calculated todays game too? but its too early to say, what is it 2-3 games shaq played. Not a finalized stat. Well what i meant was they're not a "better" run and gun team anymore with a slower center than a fast guy like marion. You said that Amare took marions place in their main fast break guy, but since its interchangeable, then having two good fast break guys who can finish with a dunk is better than one.

Posted: **Sun Feb 24, 2008 11:22 pm**

Frank Lee wrote:Mr Kot....you may be asking too much of Mr D'Ant.

You're probably right, but I think it's just very tough right now that's it isn't totally fair to put everything on Mike's shoulder. The talent is there, we just need to put them into a better position to be successful and this is not going to be easy. We already lack a shooter before the trade, now with Shaq in the middle, it's impossible to run an efficient offense without some major tweak in our philosophy. It's on the coach and the player...they've been playing that way since 04-05, it's not as easy as us sitting here say, okay, let's change up the offense and win some games.

It's easy for us to say go inside-out and try to play off Shaq, but in reality, Shaq isn't the dominant force he once was, so he just isn't the inside threat he used to be to make the strategy of 'play everything off Shaq' work. You can't really put Shaq in the middle and tell him be that force that he isn't anymore, and you also really can't relegate Nash, Raja, Amare, and Hill into a bunch of jump shooters around Shaq. Shaq can still command respect, so we certainly can run plays though him, but he shouldn't and couldn't be our focal point. And we certainly can't run our same penetrate and kick, high screen and roll offense for the whole game when Shaq is on the floor.

Like I said, it's a MAJOR change in our philosophy - a philosophy that we've been using the past 4 years. Nothing is gonna be easy on the coach and players. We don't have a season, but let's give the team more than three games.

Posted: **Sun Feb 24, 2008 11:39 pm**

Because the Nash/Amare pick and roll is the best offensive play in basketball.

Posted: **Sun Feb 24, 2008 11:48 pm**

-SDU- wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

start strawberry?

thats a terrible idea bro

Prove me wrong... start him!

Posted: **Mon Feb 25, 2008 2:41 am**

well, I think when shaq debuted the suns had no problem scoring 124 points so I dont think shaq presence is really amking it hard for them to score. I think the past 2 games the suns played a defensive minded celtics team and today they played without energy. I dont really how much tweakge phx needs to do with shaq on the floor because He does what boris is suppose to do. I think the guys has to do a better job at playing off the ball. Diaw needs to stop thinking and just play. The suns need another spot up shooter to help spread the floor. I think the spacing issues are problematic right now because Shaq is huge. I think When shawn was here Diaw was on the high post. Now Shaq is at the high post and obviusly he is not as small as diaw. I think at half court the suns have to make shaq the playmaker and the rest of the guys to play off of him like planets roatating around the sun ( no pun intended).

Posted: **Mon Feb 25, 2008 2:41 am**

mkot wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

You're probably right, but I think it's just very tough right now that's it isn't totally fair to put everything on Mike's shoulder. The talent is there, we just need to put them into a better position to be successful and this is not going to be easy. We already lack a shooter before the trade, now with Shaq in the middle, it's impossible to run an efficient offense without some major tweak in our philosophy. It's on the coach and the player...they've been playing that way since 04-05, it's not as easy as us sitting here say, okay, let's change up the offense and win some games.

It's easy for us to say go inside-out and try to play off Shaq, but in reality, Shaq isn't the dominant force he once was, so he just isn't the inside threat he used to be to make the strategy of 'play everything off Shaq' work. You can't really put Shaq in the middle and tell him be that force that he isn't anymore, and you also really can't relegate Nash, Raja, Amare, and Hill into a bunch of jump shooters around Shaq. Shaq can still command respect, so we certainly can run plays though him, but he shouldn't and couldn't be our focal point. And we certainly can't run our same penetrate and kick, high screen and roll offense for the whole game when Shaq is on the floor.

Like I said, it's a MAJOR change in our philosophy - a philosophy that we've been using the past 4 years. Nothing is gonna be easy on the coach and players. We don't have a season, but let's give the team more than three games.

Agreed. We've still been able to run the break pretty well with Shaq, it's the halfcourt set that gives us problems. I don't like Shaq having to mingle around the high post a la Diaw or Stoudemire....he's just not that kind of player. The fact that the coaching staff is telling him to not run to the blocks like he used to doesn't make too much sense to me, because that's what he did during that LAL game, and he was pretty effective.

He just looks lost when he gets the ball at the top of the key. That's not where he should be.

We need to solve our spacing issues somehow.

Posted: **Mon Feb 25, 2008 2:48 am**

I think we just have to take him out when we get to stages of the game where half court sets are necessary and prevalent.

It's not good to ruin the flow of our game and what we know mid-season.

Posted: **Mon Feb 25, 2008 3:15 am**

aznkillabeezZz wrote:well losing marion didn't help, thats my point. Marion was a big part of the fast break. And Shaq is not part of it.

Pistons still had their way with us with Marion in the line-up :lol:

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Why don't Suns use Shaq in the post?

Why don't Suns use Shaq in the post?