This trade was worthless

HootieRules · Post #1 » by **HootieRules** » Sun Mar 2, 2008 6:00 am

Ban me if you want, I don't give a damn. We traded our best defender for a fat has-been. A trade that 99% of the intelligent fans didn't want. And no one will be held accountable.

seanbig · Post #2 » by **seanbig** » Sun Mar 2, 2008 6:02 am

say what u want, but marion on the suns with a .500 vs the west wasn't gonna cut it. I know the shaq project looks awful, but the playoffs is not the regular season.

Kerr is praying that this gamble pays off in the playoffs and suddenly nash and shaq click, otherwise his career as a GM is over

statisback · Post #3 » by **statisback** » Sun Mar 2, 2008 6:15 am

Suns at this rate wont even make the playoffs :nonono:

mckane · Post #4 » by **mckane** » Sun Mar 2, 2008 6:18 am

Huge gamble.
I don't fault you for ranting.
My issue is that if you were going to blow up the marion/nash/amare era, you should've done it with some flexibility. Shaq still has 2 MORE years at 20 million. If this team doesn't click, they aren't going to win for 2 more years. Period. They don't have really good tradeable assets and they've mortgaged their future (trading draft picks).

The jury is still out for me. But I can't help but think we could've gotten some good young talent for marion. A quick power forward to run alongside amare.
Shaq is really slow and the whole suns team seems like they are slowing down for him

I miss the 7 seconds or less days.

Other trades that have been talked about for marion - and now just make me ticked off.

marion for odem
marion for sheed
marion for okefor
marion for ak47

hmm... right about now, all of those (especially 2 and 3) look really attractive.

mckane · Post #5 » by **mckane** » Sun Mar 2, 2008 6:19 am

Or they couldn't let marion opt out and tried to sign someone in the free agent market with that 16 million (like elton brand).

Brand and Amare would've been absolutey incredible.

Mr. Sun · Post #6 » by **Mr. Sun** » Sun Mar 2, 2008 6:20 am

It has been worthless because Shaq's strengths are not being utilized. Who would had think a coach would have him running as a wingman?

mckane · Post #7 » by **mckane** » Sun Mar 2, 2008 6:22 am

It's hard to completely pin this on Kerr - even though he deserves 95% of the blame.

Sarver made him trade KT.
Sarver pushed for the Shaq trade.
Sarver was unwilling to pay to keep the team together.

But if you're steve kerr... you have to say "No. You can fire me if you want, but I'm not trading TWO first rounders just to save you some cash!"

Yi Jian Lian · Post #8 » by **Yi Jian Lian** » Sun Mar 2, 2008 6:25 am

we'll see when playoff time comes

cavsfan_osiris · Post #9 » by **cavsfan_osiris** » Sun Mar 2, 2008 7:14 am

...Jumping from tv, to yahoo columnist, to general manager is a big leap. Steve Kerr might be in over his head.

JMO,

Matt Millen

-SDU- · Post #10 » by **-SDU-** » Sun Mar 2, 2008 7:16 am

please tell me how a front court of amare marion and hill is going to matchup with gasol odom and bynum

we made a move, it was high risk high reward, but without the move we had less chance at a title than we do now

Mr. Sun · Post #11 » by **Mr. Sun** » Sun Mar 2, 2008 7:24 am

-SDU- wrote:please tell me how a front court of amare marion and hill is going to matchup with gasol odom and bynum

we made a move, it was high risk high reward, but without the move we had less chance at a title than we do now

I have no beef with the move, just with how Mike utilizes Shaq in the lineup. This isn't rocket science.

mkot · Post #12 » by **mkot** » Sun Mar 2, 2008 7:35 am

^^^Sure, everything is a gamble. Some gambles are better than others. Some are smarter gambles than others. You could say we weren't winning it all with Shawn (and I agree) but it doesn't have to be Shaq. Why Shaq? Could they find a better deal? Weren't other deals out there that didn't leave us with no flexibility for the next 2 years? Why didn't we even get a 2nd round pick in that deal?

The Suns got desperate and got nailed. Just like what they did with the KT deal. It is the same "we have to make the move" crap that got us into the Tom Gugliotta mess, the Googs mess...I have no problem for them trying to improve the team by getting bigger, but this is bad timing and a bad trade.

walkingart · Post #13 » by **walkingart** » Sun Mar 2, 2008 7:36 am

I don't think it all falls on Mike D. Nash looks lost and tentative. He doesn't have shooters standing behind the arc or cutters slashing to the basket. Shaq and Stat's men are not going to leave them if Nash doesn't look to score more.

He may look bad recently, but he didn't suddenly turn to ****. He is one of the best scorers in the league whether he likes it or not.

20 shots for Nash, and 25 for Stat and we will win most games!

HootieRules · Post #14 » by **HootieRules** » Sun Mar 2, 2008 8:05 am

Mr. Sun wrote:It has been worthless because Shaq's strengths are not being utilized. Who would had think a coach would have him running as a wingman?

I'll respond to some of these. I'm not being mean-spirited. I'm just speaking from the heart.

This trade was doomed from the onset. A lot of you felt this way right when you heard about it. Then you tried talking yourself into it. Now we're back to reality.

What exactly are Shaq's strengths? We traded him to basically "clog up the middle" in Kerr's words. Great. What the hell does that even mean? He doesn't play defense, he can't defend the pick and roll, he can't score. These are things that have been evident for a few years. If we trade Marion to make our team better, I get that. We didn't do that. Marion was by far the best player in that deal. You don't make a deal if you don't get the best player in the deal. Period. It didn't take a genius to watch the Heat the last 2 1/2 years and figure out Shaq was done. How did we have no one in our entire organization that knew this?

Blame D'Antoni all you want, but this team was at its best when we ran and ran and ran in '05-'06. I still think if Raja is healthy we win the whole thing. I think if the suspensions don't happen last year we win the whole thing. We have to run to mask Nash's defense and our size. We need 3 point shooters to run. It's no mystery. Why did we completely ignore this fact when we traded for Shaq? I'll never understand that. So we solved some of our rebounding issues. Big deal if you can't make any stops.

Bottom line, Sarver is accountable. Kerr is accountable. We had a team the last 3 years that at the very least was competitive with the elite in the league. It was the best 3 years of basketball. It was fun, it was aesthetically pleasing, and we had a chance to win it all every year. We may not have won it all this year, who knows. But I don't know how you can just say that as fact judging the last couple of years. We were promised this team was getting one more run. The team was promised they were getting one more run. And we blew it all up for some fantasy and to sell a few jerseys. It's disgusting. D'Antoni will be the first one to go and that is even more disgusting considering we never would've had these last 3 years if it wasn't for him AND Nash.

HootieRules · Post #15 » by **HootieRules** » Sun Mar 2, 2008 8:12 am

-SDU- wrote:please tell me how a front court of amare marion and hill is going to matchup with gasol odom and bynum

we made a move, it was high risk high reward, but without the move we had less chance at a title than we do now

I get this, but people get caught up way too much with match ups. If you have the better team in a 7-game series you are going to win. We would have trouble guarding them but they would have trouble guarding any lineup we put out there. We had a better team with Marion. You ask everyone a couple days after the trade and all they talked about was how we matched up better with the teams in the West. No one talked about how we were a better team.

And without the move we do not have less chance at a title than we do now. That is ridiculous.

BurningHeart · Post #16 » by **BurningHeart** » Sun Mar 2, 2008 8:55 am

Excellent big post Hootie.

mkot · Post #17 » by **mkot** » Sun Mar 2, 2008 9:01 am

HootieRules, I agree with everything you said EXCEPT the part where you said Shaq is done. I thought he was done too (base on what I saw him in Miami) but I think he still have plenty left in the tank to help a team. Unfortunately, he just doesn't fit and the FO is foolish enough to think he will fit right in.

Post #18 » by **TASTIC** » Sun Mar 2, 2008 9:32 am

^I don't necessarily think the front office think it'll be that easy for him to fit right in - I think the fans are the ones who think it should be a quick and painless merge. But it's not, and it won't be. The West is tough and tonight we saw young, athletic teams can beat us. Over 7 games I don't see other teams being able to exploit us like the 76ers did, I mean I don't know how many shots rattled up above the rim and danced in somehow - Iggy's 50 footer summed it up perfectly.

Post #19 » by **jazzfan1971** » Sun Mar 2, 2008 9:35 am

I always thought it was a terrible trade for you guys. But, it's a little early to decide yet.

Give it 20 games before you judge too harshly.

Sun Scorched · Post #20 » by **Sun Scorched** » Sun Mar 2, 2008 9:44 am

HootieRules wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

I get this, but people get caught up way too much with match ups. If you have the better team in a 7-game series you are going to win. We would have trouble guarding them but they would have trouble guarding any lineup we put out there. We had a better team with Marion. You ask everyone a couple days after the trade and all they talked about was how we matched up better with the teams in the West. No one talked about how we were a better team.

And without the move we do not have less chance at a title than we do now. That is ridiculous.

Did you watch the Shaq-Gasol / Stoudemire-Odom match-up? If you did, you will understand it isn't all about "match-ups".

Amare/Gasol and Shaq/Bynum we win everytime. At that point it is up to the WCF to decide.

BTW we lost to the Lakers by 4. Tell me we lose by 4 with the line-up change.