Hollinger continues to hammer Phoenix on Shaq deal

[Arles]

Continuing with his weekly rants against the Suns on the Shaq deal, Hollinger wrote another column against it today:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/ ... uns-080307

It's actually not a bad column and some of his points have some merit, but I think he's starting to go over the top on his piling on. To act like swapping Shaq with Marion suddenly cures on all this team's ills is very short sited.

On one hand, he states that we racked up a good record against a bunch of bad teams. Then, on the other hand, he states that this team would still be winning with Marion in the last 13 games against much tougher teams. Also, stating that the root of all our turnover woes are because Shaq is avergaing 2-3 more turnovers than Marion is silly. Even if Shaq has 4-5 turnovers a game, that doesn't explain why the team is turning the ball over 20+ times.

If one wants to criticize Phoenix right now on the Shaq deal, I don't see how you could do that without mentioning the huge minutes the starters are playing and coaching. Still, the more time that this poor play goes on, the harder it's going to be to defend this trade.

[Danny Darko]

you bring up a good point. Your coach has a really specific system he runs, and I've wondered if he was going to alter that to compensate for the rosters current strengths.

What is the consensus around here on D'antoni?

[scwarrior]

I was on board with the trade to start, but I didn't realize how much Marion bailed out Steve on defense

we're not the old run and gun suns, we're just the old suns now. We don't have enough 3 point shooting on the court. Hill is nice but he can't hit 3s, honestly I'd rather have Tim Thomas (at Hill's price)...I know that sounds crazy but with Shaq we need guys who can get hot and hit from downtown.

we just have lost the identity of the run and gun. Many 3pt shooters gone, and now a slow C. With the starters you have Nash and Bell who can hit 3's, and Bell isn't hot as much as he used to be. Totally different squad to watch than the passed, not as fun imo.

[Mr. Sun]

Who is Hollinger?

[mkot]

This article didn't tell us anything that we didn't already know and I think he nailed the "realities" of the Suns' situation pretty well. Just about all the points Hollinger made in that article are true.

[Arles]

I don't buy the shooting argument. For the season, Phoenix averages 8.7 3s per game on 38.5% shooting. In the 8 games Shaq has played, Phoenix has averaged 6.9 made 3s a game on 40.8% shooting. The Suns have actually been a much better outside shooting team since Shaq got here.

The problem is that prior to the Shaq deal we allowed 45.3% FG shooting and had 13.1 turnovers per game. Since the Shaq deal, we've allowed 50.2% FG shooting and had 16.7 turnovers per game.

[Arles]

This article didn't tell us anything that we didn't already know and I think he nailed the "realities" of the Suns' situation pretty well. Just about all the points Hollinger made in that article are true.

My main point of contention is that Hollinger says because Shaq traditionally averages around 1.5-2 more turnovers per game than Marion, the turnover issue will never get better. I disagree and think that the higher numbers for Nash, Amare and others will start to decrease as they get more familiar with each other and adjust the style of play.

IMO, you are going to see the Suns work more through Shaq in the next few games (despite what Mike D says) as it's the most effective way to get open shots.

[-SDU-]

hollinger is a well known suns hater

he was the first to come out and say that the suns were too small to win a title the last 3 years, he is the first to come out and whinge now

hollinger relies too much on statistics for his arguments and should stick to commenting on fantasty basketball

[Mr. Sun]

^^ are you trying to tell me he is a simplistic moron?

[-SDU-]

i just dont take any stock into anything he writes because he can never be unbiased when writing about the suns

[KaZiSaiZ]

hollinger is just @ it again....

[daboywonder2002]

I don't buy the shooting argument. For the season, Phoenix averages 8.7 3s per game on 38.5% shooting. In the 8 games Shaq has played, Phoenix has averaged 6.9 made 3s a game on 40.8% shooting. The Suns have actually been a much better outside shooting team since Shaq got here.

The problem is that prior to the Shaq deal we allowed 45.3% FG shooting and had 13.1 turnovers per game. Since the Shaq deal, we've allowed 50.2% FG shooting and had 16.7 turnovers per game.

yea but its a lot different when you have five -six three point threats compared to now just 3(nash, bell and barbs) and giricheck, but i dont see him getting lots of minutes in the rotation. so now bell has to attempt like seven 3's. nash about 5-6. barbosa like freaking 8 and up. nash should be on the court with amare and at least 2 three point threats. thats what made the suns win 60 games a win. now at the start of a game all nash has to pass to is bell for a 3pointer

[ray ray]

SCREW hollinger!!! Him and all the HATERS!!! GO SUNS!!

[Dry_Fish]

gee I guess Hollinger is just a hater since we are playing so well.

[HootieRules]

Hollinger sounds downright bitter when talking about Nash's MVPs. I can't take him seriously after he said the Rockets were winning 61 games this year.

[Dry_Fish]

well the Rcokets do have 21 games left including today (which they are currently leading...)

Do playoff wins count?

[HootieRules]

well the Rcokets do have 21 games left including today (which they are currently leading...)

So you're telling me there's a chance....

Do playoff wins count?

Rockets? Playoffs? Wins? Come again?

[Dry_Fish]

I think you mean McGrady and not the Rockets who have a couple of ship more than the Suns.....

[HootieRules]

I think you mean McGrady and not the Rockets who have a couple of ship more than the Suns.....

Ouch, that hurts....

[BBen]

Please don't take my post as trolling because I think the Shaq trade is a league-wide spectacle. Also, I'm going to admit my bias and say that I hope the Suns miss the playoffs so that the Sonics get a lottery pick and I also hate Steve Kerr with a passion from his playing and commentating days.

That said, I've watched more Suns games than I've watched Sonics games since the big trade and I've been extremely disappointed with the way your offense is being run. It's extremely predictable and that is on the shoulders of your coach. Shaq pick and roll with Nash IS NOT WORKING why won't D'Antoni realize that? I think the way it works is with a Sacto style Divac type passing system. Everyone on your team can pass, why not divy it out? The team is so used to Nash being the go-to assist guy that their offense is kind of stale. Since you traded your best defender by far you can't rely on just getting hot while you hold the other team to less points. Your offense slows down a lot while Shaq is in the game because you have to wait for him to set up in the post. Everyone is kind of standing around waiting and Nash has never been effective in that kind of situation (ever wondered why he wasn't a top guard until D'Antoni?). He's the kind of create chaos and dish type guy. The real problem with your offense is selfishness; all the players are used to not having to create too many opportunities.

I don't see any solution except a complete offensive rehaul. Also you need to play better defense since Marion really was a lockdown Bowen type (less dirty of course) defender for you guys.

Denver and GS are both playing better ball with set systems that don't need to be changed drastically. I see you missing the playoffs if you don't figure it out quick. The wildcard being whether Houston maintains its ungodly winning tear without Yao (who I see as being the most overrated player in the league). Like I say though, I have biases.