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Marion was and is way overrated for the money he makes. He is neiter a game changer nor a franchise or bigtime player.
He is just the best 3rd wheel player or role player in the NBA and maybe in the history.
And maybe he is the 2nd best rebounder smaller than 6"8 in the history of the game. But nothing more and less.

I hope the Marion lovers understand what for a player he is, true he is special and great overall player but not near a max type of player or game changer.
He cannot help a bad team by himself alone unlike true superstars that's the difference.

Ohhhhhhh he's just ONLY the best "third wheel" or "role" player in the NBA and maybe in NBA history and MAYBE the second best rebounder smaller than 6'8 in NBA history but oh, that's it, nothing more and nothing less.

Yeah, that's real crappy.

BurningHeart wrote:Ohhhhhhh he's just ONLY the best "third wheel" or "role" player in the NBA and maybe in NBA history and MAYBE the second best rebounder smaller than 6'8 in NBA history but oh, that's it, nothing more and nothing less.

Yeah, that's real crappy.

doesn't change the fact that he isn't a superstar. I doubt he makes all-star team w/ Miami. I'm not trying to bash on him because he is one of my favorite players... I'm just stating my opinion.

BurningHeart wrote:Ohhhhhhh he's just ONLY the best "third wheel" or "role" player in the NBA and maybe in NBA history and MAYBE the second best rebounder smaller than 6'8 in NBA history but oh, that's it, nothing more and nothing less.

Yeah, that's real crappy.

2nd best rebounder under 6"8 not the 2nd best overall that's a huge difference!

Role player are not superstars, i.e. Bruce Bowen is one of the best role players, too! And does he earn more than 15 mil? i don't think so! Another example is Battier who is one of the best role players in this league and i think he is underrated! Matrix has some sexy stats like the boards and the steals but he is not a game changer just like Bowen and Battier only better!

Marion wants more than he deserves and that is just sad because he isn't that good. That annoys me most about him. He was on a championship team and now is on the worst team in this league. Imagine if we could have traded him for Garnett but he voted to veto the deal because he didn't want to be on a bad team that is so funny.

I said it before this season and after this trade we will be a much better team in the PO without Marion by getting another valuable piece like now with SHAQ. You Matrix lovers will see

GO SUNS!!!



Do u know get what i mean?

Please lock this please.

He has made the all-star team multiple times even without Nash. How is he not a star? He isn't a super star or a franchise type of player, but he certainly is a star. Deal with it.

mkot wrote:Please lock this please.

He has made the all-star team multiple times even without Nash. How is he not a star? He isn't a super star or a franchise type of player, but he certainly is a star. Deal with it.

He is a player who is one of the top rebounders, ok fine.
And another example: Camby never made the all star team so far and if he would have been healthy and were with the Suns instead of Marion (along with Kidd,Marbury, Nash) he would be an allstar every year, too. And even would have been better than Marion. Marion is a player who needs one superstar around him to be an allstar he cannot get there by himself because his stats may be fine but he cannot win games for his team like now with the Heat or some years ago when we traded Marbury during the season.

I just want to say i am happy that we are without him during the PO and that i think that he is overrated.

And I am happy with this trade!

GO SUNS!!!

trick83 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



He is a player who is one of the top rebounders, ok fine.
And another example: Camby never made the all star team so far and if he would have been healthy and were with the Suns instead of Marion (along with Kidd,Marbury, Nash) he would be an allstar every year, too. And even would have been better than Marion. Marion is a player who needs one superstar around him to be an allstar he cannot get there by himself because his stats may be fine but he cannot win games for his team like now with the Heat or some years ago when we traded Marbury during the season.

Random memory #1: Game 6 against Dallas three years ago. Nash hit the big 3 to send it to overtime, but Amare had fouled out. Shawn took over in OT - he scored 11 of our 19 points. He finished with 38 and 16 ... I guess some people just don't have good memory.

Shawn leaves the Suns with career averages of 18.4 points and 10.0 rebounds. He ranks second all-time in minutes played (24,948), fourth in points (12,134), second in rebounds (6,616), second in steals (1,245) and third in blocked shots (894).

He WILL be in the ring and you're here telling us he isn't a star

mkot wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Random memory #1: Game 6 against Dallas three years ago. Nash hit the big 3 to send it to overtime, but Amare had fouled out. Shawn took over in OT - he scored 11 of our 19 points. He finished with 38 and 16 ... I guess some people just don't have good memory.

I won't forget that game like other true Suns fans it was a great game by him and the Suns. That was the only series in the playoffs where he played like a true star but unfortunately the only one

Ok maybe i said (wrote) it not the right way, he is very good but not a star who can change a game.

not every player can be superstars - there are only few players you can call superstars. lbj, kg, shaq, nash, mj ect...

i see alot players who earn a lot of money and are no superstars.
but that doesn

trick83 wrote:He cannot help a bad team by himself alone unlike true superstars that's the difference.

You mean like the way Wade has driven his team towards victory after victory this season yeah?

Marion IS a Star. He is not a Superstar, but it is quite evident of what he brings to a team. We struggled continuously until the last 3 games since the trade. Sure enough we were fitting in a new piece, but it is still evident his perimeter defense created so many opportunities for us and we are missing that right now, even with Grants' stellar efforts on D.

To compare him to someone like Bowen or Battier is ludicrous. Do either of those guys have a career average of over 18 and 10 without having plays run for them? Bowen doesn't have a PG like Nash but he still has a Tim Duncan. Battier doesn't have a Nash but he has a T-Mac as well as a 7'6" Wall. Those guys are great defenders with great big defenders behind them. Marion is a great defender and has never had a great big man defender behind him.

You may want to argue that Marion has the offensive numbers due to playing with Nash, but he had those same numbers if not better before Nash was here.

Nuff Said!!!

who will pay him 20 million?

When ya make the allstar game 4 times u definately ARE an NBA star
And the fact that Marion made big bucks actually solidifies his case for stardom.

Some peeps say he disapeared in the playoffs...

Ya right, Marion's playoffs averages in over the past 3 years go

2005 : 17.6/11.8 with 1.4 stls/1.7 blks
2006 : 20.4/11.7 with 1.9 stls/1.3 blks
2007 : 17/10.5 with 1.5 stls/1.7 blks

Pretty dam good for a guy who's supposed 2 be invisible.

The Matrix was an extremely effective scorer given the number of touches he'd get, the only top notch defender we had this year, and one of the best rebounders in the NBA despite only being 6-7 tall...

Suns have had a lot ups and a few downs over the past 4 seasons.
But even thru the hard times there were always 2 guys who we could count on, Marion and Nash.
Not only is Marion a star, he put up star production on nightly basis, even tho often playing outta his natural postion, or having 2 guard 5-11 roadrunners to 7 foot bangers (sometimes in the same game), or logging crazy sick minutes in an uptempo system (when playin hurt at times too).

The Matrix is a star all the way

trick83 wrote:Marion was and is way overrated for the money he makes.

yeah i think so.

He is neiter a game changer nor a franchise or bigtime player.

he is not a franchise player but he is a bigtime player..he defend very well, he rebound very well and he hustle to get his points, mostly second chance points.

He is just the best 3rd wheel player or role player in the NBA and maybe in the history.

i agree with the best 3rd wheel player but he is too good to just be a role player.. if he can create his won shot, may be good enaough to be the 2nd
best player in a team..Pippen type of a player..

I hope the Marion lovers understand what for a player he is, true he is special and great overall player but not near a max type of player or game changer.

definitely not a max type of a player...

Marion shines only in a SUNS uniform because the SUNS were built around him. Anywhere else he is just another good player who thinks he should be paid Kobe Bryant money.

Matrix should be in the Suns ring of honor someday it's true. HOWEVER, he had 2 major flaws that led to his downfall in PHX. The first certainly wasn't his fault and happens to many good players who sign max contracts. Matrix was a bargain for the early part of his deal. His contract now though has become a franchise killer. He is set to make $17+m next year and if anybody thinks he is opting out of that deal they are crazy. On the open market he is probably worth around $12m per year.

Secondly, he has let that $ define him in that he sees anything less than $17m as an insult to his ability. A good example is the rumored convo between Kerr, Matrix, and his agent. Kerr correctly stated that the only players in the league worth $20m per year (almost 1/2 the cap) were Garnett and Duncan. Shawn took that as in insult to his game and soon came the well publicized trade demand. He is so out of touch with the reality of the salary cap (not to mention the average Joe) that he doesn't see that a team can't invest that type of $ in an elite role player.

The sad reality is that Shawn isn't good enough to carry a bad team. (or even be the sidekick to a guy who isn't good enough to carry a bad team) The irony is that the only team that will be able to afford him are the worst ones. So his salary demands won't allow him to sign with the teams that he can help the most.

His saving grace may be if Miami gets the 1 or 2 pick and drafts Beasley or Rose. (my personal favorite given their extreme need for a legitimate pg) If Wade comes back healthy then Shawn can go to being the 3rd wheel again. Riley will have to find a way to massage his ego enough to get him to "settle" for that role and an extention in the 3 year $40m range. For Shawn's sake I hope he wakes up and smells the coffee. It would be a shame to see him go out being "the man" on a terrible team.

There are few superstars that can carry a bad team into the playoffs alone.
Those that can are the high scoring type like Jordan, Kobe and LBJ.

mkot wrote:Please lock this please.

He has made the all-star team multiple times even without Nash. How is he not a star? He isn't a super star or a franchise type of player, but he certainly is a star. Deal with it.

+1

guaves13 wrote:His saving grace may be if Miami gets the 1 or 2 pick and drafts Beasley or Rose. (my personal favorite given their extreme need for a legitimate pg) If Wade comes back healthy then Shawn can go to being the 3rd wheel again. Riley will have to find a way to massage his ego enough to get him to "settle" for that role and an extention in the 3 year $40m range. For Shawn's sake I hope he wakes up and smells the coffee. It would be a shame to see him go out being "the man" on a terrible team.

If the Heat keep Marion he'll EASILY be the 2nd option over whoever it is that the Heat draft, even Beasly or Rose.

Maybe in a couple years that'll change, but there's no way any of this year's draftees outplays Marion in their 1st or even 2nd year

Anybody trashing on Marion needs to get their head checked. He is not the product of a system and never was. The fact is that unlike a lot of ball dominators out there, he is excellent at playing off the ball. Pound for pound one of the best rebounders, good help defender with many intangibles.

ill never argue against marion, people who only look at the stats will probably never realise his true value to this team
he is a lock for the ring of honour and one of the all time phoenix greats

sure, not a franchise go to guy, but i never recall anyone saying he was?