RealGM

Posted: **Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:14 am**

(I understand this isn't in the "Draft" thread. I'm boycotting that thread, it has become cluttered and useless)

Serge Ibaka

I was surfing the forum earlier, and someone was talking about Shaq's value as a mentor and coach to other players. It's a very valid point, and I think it applies to this year's ATL pick.

Whether we win the title this year or not, I think this much is true; our roster is set for next year. Everyone is locked up, and there is no reason to stray. The bench looks better than it has in years.. Therefore, there is no reason to go after someone who can give us important minutes right away.

With Phx having sold off a lot of our future draft picks, we have to make what we have count. Ibaka gives us a player with huge upside, who has proven that he can contend with NBA talent in the Euro leagues.

http://www.nbadraft.net/admincp/profile ... ibaka.html

He has the physical abilities and mental drive to be a solid contributor for us once Shaq phases out. And of course, he'll have a great mentor helping him along.

I realize that there are tons of guys every year coming out of Africa who are supposedly the next 'big thing', but I think this guy is different. His stock has been climbing..

Posted: **Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:52 am**

I don't trust foreign big men.

Posted: **Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:52 am**

He does look good -- but my primary concern is with finding a good point guard, right now. We already have an amazing, young PF/C, and we're good on SGs, but Nash can't do what he's doing for more than a few more years.

We're also thin at SF and C in a year or two.

Of course, if he's on the board and no good PGs or SFs are there, then sure, why not?

Posted: **Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:18 am**

That Ibaka is projected as a late first rounder. When we really want him, we should trade down and get two late first rounders, so we can grab him and Tyler Smith.

That little clip is impressive, but hey, he doesn't miss free throws very often according to that clip

Posted: **Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:53 am**

Naples, I'm going to rename and make this the new draft thread with a spanky new title - sweet?

Posted: **Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:58 am**

Fingers crossed boys that we don't abort the mission like a teen pregnancy and we keep this one...

Posted: **Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:59 am**

I would look impressive too if I was on youtube playing against a team 4 inches shorter than me.

Sarcasm aside, there are project players, and then there are Congo native, non-english speaking, untested, underdevloped "projects" This guy would be the epitome of "project." And I would bet my bottom dollar he doesnt see the floor under dantoni - do you think he could learn our offense in enough time for him to be of value with a mid-1st pick? our front office would never take a risk on him. He has never been tested, let alone play with other athletes that could give him a challenge. He will also undoubtedly do best at the 4 spot, and the worst thing we could do is draft a young 4 and force him to play the 5 as he develops.

On the plus side, he is an athletic freak, has amazing hops, runs the floor well for a big, enough range to hit the 3, and has a naturally high release on his shot.

However, if you want a young prodigy to learn under shaq and dominate next to Amare, look no further than Coaches' Association Defensive Player of the Year Hasheem Thabeet.

ftw

Posted: **Fri Apr 11, 2008 10:00 am**

Why do we need a new draft thread btw?

Posted: **Fri Apr 11, 2008 10:05 am**

38 pages is a little annoying to find players that we have essentially gone over 5 times...easier to find things in here...all I'd suggest is lets try and put posts with substance and links etc, not just 'draft _____'

Put some quality and not just quantity...

This is a valuable pick and we have the potential to make some moves with pieces like Barbosa, Tucker, Diaw etc who could be shopped...

**edit** Yeah i realise the irony of how I've posted about 3 posts here with 50 words between them haha...apologies chaps

Posted: **Fri Apr 11, 2008 4:28 pm**

I'm really high on Russel Westbrook, he is just the type of player we could use in the line-up, i'd love to see us draft up a little to get him, maybe dangle Barbosa and our Pick to get this pick (westbrook) and a roleplaying SF who can shoot the 3.

Russell Westbrook
UCLA
Birthday:11/12/1988
NBA Postion:PG/SG
Class:Sophomore
Ht:6-4
Wt:187
College Team:UCLA
Hometown:Hawthorne, CA
High School:Leuzinger

NBA Comparison: Rajon Rondo/Monta Ellis

Strengths: Athletic and explosive combo guard with the length to make up for his lack of height

Posted: **Fri Apr 11, 2008 4:30 pm**

Let's Talk

1. Point Guard

In my humble opinion, we don't have the draft pick to make this selection. It won't be high enough. The only gaurds really worth taking are Rose and Mayo, though I love Westbrook's athleticism (think Devin Harris/Monta Ellis with size and great defense). I also don't like the idea of having two project guards. Strawberry, while not a traditional point guard, should warrant our best development efforts right now with regards to our backcourt. We either trade for or sign a point through the free agency. I know we joke about Paul frquently, but that is the right idea.

2. Small Forward

Obviously, we now have Giricek which makes our deficiencies here not seem so glaring. But we should still consider this a point of interest, even above our perceieved lack at point guard. There are an amazing series of small forwards in this draft. Rush would be a great project for us and at worst an eventual role player. What really concerns me is our 1st round draft pick from last year. I have absolutely no feel for Tucker. Not even enough of one to decide what his draft-day trade value would be. I wish I could see some of the d-league games that he has taken over. I do think that we undervalue him; he is a four-year college guy and I think we forget to take that into account. Tucker is the reason why I don't think we should have a knee-jerk reaction at this position, but why I rank it a higher priority than point guard.

3. Center

The best for last. This is where we should focus our efforts. Why? Above all else, above our concern over a point guard or any other position for that matter, should be making sure that when O'Neal retires, we have someone holding down the low-post with Stoudemire. We need to do everything in our power to keep Stoudemire at his natural position of power forward. That is when the Suns are at their best. Ibaka has freakish athleticism and a quick second-jump like Stoudemire, but I do like Thabeet. There is something to be said for a 7'3" shot-blocker that could compliment Stoudemire down low. The most intriguing part of that combination is that Thabeet doesn't take up the space inside that O'Neal commands keeping our pick and roll alive.

Now I want to take credit (or flak) for saying that I think our most valuable course of action is to draft a center. One that will be able to learn from O'Neal for two more years and have one of the best big men and the "baddest 36-year-old ever created" to learn from.

I would like to say that we should draft a point guard and have him learn under Nash, but I don't think that is as possible. For one thing, we have assumed that Barbosa and Strawberry could "learn" under Nash, yet nothing tangible has come from that, at least nothing on Barbosa's end. I am positive this is because everything that makes Nash what he is is unteachable. The drive, perceverence and court intelligence cannot be taught. Again, throw whatever it takes Paul's direction.

Stoudemire, however, is learning under O'Neal. I think we could all agree that Stoudemire has been impacted positively. I want our next center to experience that as well.

Because I haven't done one of these in a while and because I think it's the best way to wrap up this rediculously long post, here is what I have painted in my head in terms of the future of the Suns:

PG - Paul
SG - Barbosa / Strawberry
SF - Tucker
PF - Stoudemire / Diaw
C - Thabeet

Altogether, Paul is the only variable in the equation. Strawberry is legit and a lock-down defender. God I love his hustle. Tucker is more of the wild-card, but I think we (and me personally) need to give him a fair shake. That's not a bad team.

Let's convince Nash to sign for the vet. min. now.

Posted: **Fri Apr 11, 2008 4:54 pm**

What do people think of Robin Lopez?

Posted: **Fri Apr 11, 2008 5:36 pm**

I was just looking at JaVale McGee, I'd say if he is available when we pick we should draft him. If Shaq can teach him the jump hook we would be golden. This dude was born to play basketball. He is rated at #19 on the latest RealGM mock.

JaVale McGee
Nevada
Birthday:1/19/1988
NBA Postion:Center
Class:Sophomore
Ht:7-0
Wt:237
College Team:Nevada
Hometown:Flint, MI
High School:Hales Franciscan

NBA Comparison: Andrew Bynum/Patrick OBryant

Strengths: Long athletic bigman who is absolutely bursting with potential ... Runs the floor exceptionally well ... Improving at a rapid pace on both ends of the floor. Has freakishly long arms: around a 7-6 wingspan which makes him a great rebounder and shot blocker ... Can really become a force defensively when he adds strength and discipline on opponent's shot fakes ... His length makes it extremely difficult for opponents to get shots over ... His offensive game is showing a lot of promise with developing back to the basket skills. He even shows some ability to face the basket and make drives or spot up ... Has a competitive spirit that is not apparent in many bigmen who picked up the game because of their size. A late bloomer who went underrecruited out of Chicago. McGee's parents were both professional basketball players so he has been around the game from a young age ... Shows solid form and touch on his shot ... Has a tremendous frame which should allow him to get much stronger and retain his great agility and athleticism ... Gives great effort and shows very good stamina for a bigman his age ... Added strength will give him better balance and make him a lot more effective imposing his will inside ... Has the potential to be a top 5-10 center in the league someday (if he's patient about entering the NBA) ... Has even shown the ability to knock down shots from college 3, no question influenced by the presence of Nick Fazekas last year ...

Weaknesses: Still must gain maturity. He gets frustrated far too easily and loses his composure quickly when calls go against him, or when he's struggling ... Still growing into his body and game, learning what he's capable of and steadily becoming a factor night in and night out ... Needs to develop some go to moves. A reliable jump hook would make him an absolute force ... Must improve from the free throw line (50% wont cut it). He has solid shooting touch and should be able to raise his FT shooting to at least 70-75 percent over time if he develops a consistent routine and works at it ... Should be wary of leaving school early. It's likely he would be a first rounder this year, but a third year in college would really help him in the long run as he would be much better prepared for the NBA and not run the risk of losing confidence and falling short of his full potential ...

Notes: JaVale's parents were both professional basketball players. His father, George Montgomery starred at Illinois and was a second-round draft pick in 1985 by the Portland Trailblazers. His mother Pamela McGee, and her twin sister, Paula, were All-Americans who led USC to NCAA National titles in 1983 and 1984 ... Pamela also played and coached in the WNBA and is now a high school coach in Sacramento ... In Javale's freshman season he saw little playing time playing behind WAC player of the year and NBA draft pick Nick Fazekas.

Posted: **Fri Apr 11, 2008 6:26 pm**

I'm with those that are of the opinion that if we use and keep pick # 15 that we go big and draft a Thabeet, Javale McGee etc. However if we can trade up and get Westbrook I think that's a great idea. I watched him play Derrick Rose on D as well as possible in the Memphis/UCLA game. This dudes got game.

Some of what the Suns do in the draft probably hinges on what their long term outlook is for both Tucker and Strawberry. If they think each has playing potential down the road we probably don't draft a 2 or 3 position. Otherwise I really like some of these prospets in the draft and probably can get a real good one with pick 15. I like Batum, Randolph, and Donte Green the most and would be happy if they drafted any of those 3 players at pick 15.

Yes, getting Chris Paul via free agency in a couple years would be freaking golden. He's already bud with Amare and Phoenix is a sought after place to play for many reasons. Getter done....

Posted: **Fri Apr 11, 2008 6:26 pm**

phungk wrote:I was just looking at JaVale McGee, I'd say if he is available when we pick we should draft him. If Shaq can teach him the jump hook we would be golden. This dude was born to play basketball. He is rated at #19 on the latest RealGM mock.

JaVale McGee
Nevada
Birthday:1/19/1988
NBA Postion:Center
Class:Sophomore
Ht:7-0
Wt:237
College Team:Nevada
Hometown:Flint, MI
High School:Hales Franciscan

---- Sounds good, I'd never heard of him.

Re: point guard understudies, I wonder if there's a way to get Rodriguex back from Portland, Can you imagine him learning from nash? I'd trade barbosa straight-up for him, or go after Calderon.
Not that we can afford to get into a bidding war with BC for him.

Shet, I wish we had kept some of those picks years past ....

NBA Comparison: Andrew Bynum/Patrick OBryant

Strengths: Long athletic bigman who is absolutely bursting with potential ... Runs the floor exceptionally well ... Improving at a rapid pace on both ends of the floor. Has freakishly long arms: around a 7-6 wingspan which makes him a great rebounder and shot blocker ... Can really become a force defensively when he adds strength and discipline on opponent's shot fakes ... His length makes it extremely difficult for opponents to get shots over ... His offensive game is showing a lot of promise with developing back to the basket skills. He even shows some ability to face the basket and make drives or spot up ... Has a competitive spirit that is not apparent in many bigmen who picked up the game because of their size. A late bloomer who went underrecruited out of Chicago. McGee's parents were both professional basketball players so he has been around the game from a young age ... Shows solid form and touch on his shot ... Has a tremendous frame which should allow him to get much stronger and retain his great agility and athleticism ... Gives great effort and shows very good stamina for a bigman his age ... Added strength will give him better balance and make him a lot more effective imposing his will inside ... Has the potential to be a top 5-10 center in the league someday (if he's patient about entering the NBA) ... Has even shown the ability to knock down shots from college 3, no question influenced by the presence of Nick Fazekas last year ...

Weaknesses: Still must gain maturity. He gets frustrated far too easily and loses his composure quickly when calls go against him, or when he's struggling ... Still growing into his body and game, learning what he's capable of and steadily becoming a factor night in and night out ... Needs to develop some go to moves. A reliable jump hook would make him an absolute force ... Must improve from the free throw line (50% wont cut it). He has solid shooting touch and should be able to raise his FT shooting to at least 70-75 percent over time if he develops a consistent routine and works at it ... Should be wary of leaving school early. It's likely he would be a first rounder this year, but a third year in college would really help him in the long run as he would be much better prepared for the NBA and not run the risk of losing confidence and falling short of his full potential ...

Notes: JaVale's parents were both professional basketball players. His father, George Montgomery starred at Illinois and was a second-round draft pick in 1985 by the Portland Trailblazers. His mother Pamela McGee, and her twin sister, Paula, were All-Americans who led USC to NCAA National titles in 1983 and 1984 ... Pamela also played and coached in the WNBA and is now a high school coach in Sacramento ... In Javale's freshman season he saw little playing time playing behind WAC player of the year and NBA draft pick Nick Fazekas.

Posted: **Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:44 pm**

I like Thabeet a bit more than McGee, mainly due to his physical development already. He has the size to play an NBA 5 already. McGee will need years to fill out his frame. It sure would be nice to have a legit 7 foot athletic freak shooting 3s all night long, but I think having a 7'3 athletic freak blocking shots and dunking all night long sounds a little more in line with what our system is becoming.

Shaq would have a blast mentoring Thabeet, and while his hands are a problem, I'm sure he's a quick learner. He's made significant strides from his freshman year to this year. He has just as much potential as JaVale McGee, but in different facets in his game.

Hopefully we have two first round picks, although I don't know if I'd necessarily draft a point guard. None of the point guard prospects outside of Rose really strike me as a suitable replacement for Nash. Among the 2nd tier point guard prospects, there are 3 maybes in Collison, Augustin, and Lawson. Collison is at the top for me. Defensive-minded point guard who is quick on his feet and a good floor general. But no where near the level of Derrick Rose.

In terms of the small forward position, I think Donte Green or Joe Alexander would be excellent additions to the team. Donte is a Tim Thomas v2, and can be an extra big body/shooter on this team. There can never be too many. He has good athleticism, and we can probably run him at the 4.

Joe Alexander looks like he will be a great starter in the NBA. He's got great athleticism, he has a nice touch on his shot, and his release point is up in the mountains. Completely unblockable shot. He shoots the 3 at a very good percentage, but his midrange game looks to be his strong suit. He's a hard worker, and he rebounds at a nice clip. He's another 3/4 combo we can run in our system.

Posted: **Fri Apr 11, 2008 10:23 pm**

Serge Ibaka

-- You now what impresses me about him, aside from his size and apparent athleticism, is that he jumps to receive a pass and when he has the ball, keeps it up high. Consistently playing against much smaller people most young big men get in the habit of bringing the ball down too low and when they get to the NBA, it's easy to take it away from them or block shots.

Posted: **Fri Apr 11, 2008 10:27 pm**

MystikMonk wrote:I like Thabeet a bit more than McGee, mainly due to his physical development already. He has the size to play an NBA 5 already. McGee will need years to fill out his frame. It sure would be nice to have a legit 7 foot athletic freak shooting 3s all night long, but I think having a 7'3 athletic freak blocking shots and dunking all night long sounds a little more in line with what our system is becoming.

Shaq would have a blast mentoring Thabeet, and while his hands are a problem, I'm sure he's a quick learner. He's made significant strides from his freshman year to this year. He has just as much potential as JaVale McGee, but in different facets in his game.

I see your point about Thabeet, yeah he is taller but only by 3 inches whereas McGee has a 7'6" wingspan so the difference is minimal. McGee already has a strong frame, I don't think filling it out is the question as much as how much he can actually build on it. He is also more of a midrange shooter like Amare, than a 3 point shooter.

I don't see how Shaq would prefer teaching a guy from Tanzania who has trouble speaking english over a guy who is a hook shot away from being a force in the league (one of Shaqs signature moves) They also can work on free throws with each other.

If it came down to choosing McGee or Thabeet, I would rather the Suns choose McGee.

Posted: **Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:32 pm**

phungk wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

I see your point about Thabeet, yeah he is taller but only by 3 inches whereas McGee has a 7'6" wingspan so the difference is minimal. McGee already has a strong frame, I don't think filling it out is the question as much as how much he can actually build on it. He is also more of a midrange shooter like Amare, than a 3 point shooter.

I don't see how Shaq would prefer teaching a guy from Tanzania who has trouble speaking english over a guy who is a hook shot away from being a force in the league (one of Shaqs signature moves) They also can work on free throws with each other.

If it came down to choosing McGee or Thabeet, I would rather the Suns choose McGee.

Hah, I can imagine Shaq donning a Dikembe Mutombo mask, and trying out his best impersonation. It'd make for real nice youtube moments.

Good point about his frame. I admittedly don't know much about this guy. I saw a highlight reel or two, and what I saw was an ultra lanky running down the court shooting jumpers. I also overlooked the tidbit about him having a 7'6 wingspan. Jesus, his jump hook would be unstoppable.

Haha, so maybe I'm having second thoughts, but I think his lack of defensive intensity (or so I hear), his selfishness and his subpar rebounding averages despite his size is a bit discouraging. His pros definitely outweigh his cons, but I don't want someone who won't give Amare a competent partner on D, or help him on the boards.

Posted: **Sat Apr 12, 2008 12:26 am**

I think people are clearly overlooking the huge holes in Thabeet's game. His body is NOT NBA ready yet. Thabeet needs to add core strength and leg strength so he can become a good post defender. He had times in college where smaller players could post him up or push him out of position on rebounds. In addition, he does not always catch the ball cleanly so it greatly limits him offensively. Next, there has been some questions raised about his work ethic and effort (Some reports say he has good work ethic. The fact that there is any question is bad). Thabeet is a poor rebounder. Meanwhile Thabeet has no part of his game that would prevent his man from leveling him to stop STAT. I also must say that if a 7-3 athletic freak is around at the 15 pick, then you know something is wrong with his game.

McGee is interesting. He needs to ass like 30 pounds to be able to play center. If he does that, it may help his post game and rebounding. He needs to develop post moves, work on his defense, and work on this rebounding. Right now he likes to beat people athletically to rebound. He must focus on establishing position in the NBA. He can hit the college three even though he does not have the best shot form. If he fixes his form, he probably can get his range out to the NBA three. That alone could help free the lane for STAT.

I personally don't like any of these big men. I look at them and I see their flaws. I think we have a better shot if we drafted Hardin from Cal in the second round. He is athletic too and has great post defense potential.

As for Serge Ibaka, I will try to watch him tomorrow during the Hoops Summit. From what I read, he seems like a better fit at PF. We don't need a PF. He seems like an interesting prospect. He might be able to boost his stock all the way up on Philly's pick so long as Darrell Arthur has been taken.

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