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Just my thoughts from the beginning of this whole fiasco with Mike D.
1. The roster is over the salary cap.
2. That roster is full of players that are old and set in their ways.
3. Amare you wanted Mike D out of Phoenix in directly that guy did as much for you as Steve Nash did. Expect Fallout here
4. Suns management released information that they wanted the team to play defense. Unless you start Skinner, Hill, Bell and bring in 9 different players that wont happen.
5. Theres a movie called trading places where the rich bet $1 they can make a poor man rich and a rich man poor just for fun. Sarver/Kerr are like those roto geeks that think they understand how to run a franchise cause they have witnessed others do it.
6. My favorite article today was that Chicago players were beggin for Mike D to be their coach. Guess why? Money! Thats right if you fit his system your value and worth is quantum. Guess how much Leandro will be worth in a slowed down system? Guess how much Boris will be worth if he doesnt need to shoot at all now?
7. My 2nd fav article is the Suns no longer want a top tier coach to run their top tier players. Nope now they want jim from janitorial or any other person that can fill out an application. Simply no direction whatsoever no game plan.. Perfect reason to fire Mike D.

I may be beating a dead horse, but Im also witnessing the NY Knicks and the Phoenix Suns experience polar opposite runs over the next 4 years. I wouldnt be surprised to see the Suns miss the Playoffs next 4 season either. I have seen nothing out of this management team to give me optimism and dont tell anyone here wait til the draft. Suns fans have been down that road, but none of us as Suns fans have been down the road of disparity which seems eminent.





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hahaha mangement is a joke here

Consider it an early holiday gift from me to you ............

*sighs* Nice read, Amen316.

I am shuddering at the thought that this franchise is headed the way of the Knicks of recent years...you know, an owner who doesn't know sh*t about basketball, hired an executive with no prior experience except that of playing in the NBA and sticks by the decision of his buddy/executive as all of the new exec's peoples are brought in to fill spots. Instead of getting the best available talent, they're all bringing in friends for high powered positions...I understand you need to work with people who have the same philosophies and ideas as you, so everyones on the same page. But at the same time, you need to do whats best for the organization. Not just hire people because they're your friends or they're easy to influence.

Yea it just kills me to see that Nachbar wants to play for NY. I remember when Mike D was here free agents use to desire to come to phx for less money to play in the system Mike had.
Now management got rid of him and it appears they had no plans for the future, except to bring in a new low tier coach to coach Shaq, Nash, Amare, Hill.... I bet anyone of them have more experience than the person they would bring in.

I wanted a championship no doubt, but never at the expense of losing Mike D, Steve, amare, and to be honest not really Shawn either..... one step further was JJ not to lose him either. So the destruction is tough to take when this is the one sport I love the most.

the amount of talent we've seen pass through the suns these past 4 years is dynastyish.

Steve Nash
Amare Stoudemire
Shawn Marion
Tim Thomas
Kurt Thomas
Raja Bell
Shaquille O'Neal
Grant Hill
Joe Johnson
Quentin Richardson
Jim Jackson
Leandro Barbosa
Boris Diaw
Eddie House
James Jones

Is there another team that has gone through so much talent like us?

but the fact that the ssol theory didn

i think kerr has the right attitude and i wont bash it for him

some people here are just drama queens who will whinge no matter what we do

thank you SDU.

i can't even stomach half the garbage on here anymore. my hope lives on. and i know with complete faith that we will be the Champions one day before Amare hangs them up. He is the future and the future is now. let us not forget he is only 25.

-SDU- wrote:i think kerr has the right attitude and i wont bash it for him

some people here are just drama queens who will whinge no matter what we do

+1

Call me Chicken Little..... cause the sky as the Phoenix Suns knows it has begun falling!

To say the system didnt win a title is true, but to say it couldnt have won a title is false.

1. Dallas vs Miami - Phoenix lost to Dallas and Dallas went on to the championship. By far our best shot but we had a depleted small ball lineup. New Free Agent Raja Bell did a good job filling in for JJ but wasnt near the player off the dribble to create shots for himself. Amare Stoudemire was out that season due to a knee injury and we still made it very tough on Dallas.
With Amare alone before knee injuries I believe this was Mike Ds best shot at the title.

2. San Antonio vs Phoenix - Mikes first full playoff season. JJ get his orbit yanked by Stackhouse in the series before. Without JJ.. Q Richardson is exposed for being simply a spot shooter. SA advances to tilte game and wins.

3. San Antionio vs Phoenix - 2 seasons ago, while I list this last its because I believe the season Amare and Boris were kicked something was fishy abou the officiating. Amare was in foul trouble in the first two games inside the 8 minute mark of both first qtrs. His system worked his players didnt execute simple as that.


I am tired of hiring Mikes System SSOL was to blame for the Suns not winning the title. It simply is so near sighted and so typical of the media to drive into fans heads. Statements without substance....
SSOL was innovative and beautiful, fact is with Grant and Shaq it wasnt effective.

Amen316 wrote:I am tired of hiring Mikes System SSOL was to blame for the Suns not winning the title. It simply is so near sighted and so typical of the media to drive into fans heads. Statements without substance....
SSOL was innovative and beautiful, fact is with Grant and Shaq it wasnt effective.

You can assume all you want to about how those series would've ended if certain things hadn't happened, but we simply don't know.

Secondly, how quickly yee forget Mike's influence on bringing in guys like Hill and Shaq.

Amen316 wrote:Call me Chicken Little..... cause the sky as the Phoenix Suns knows it has begun falling!

To say the system didnt win a title is true, but to say it couldnt have won a title is false.

1. Dallas vs Miami - Phoenix lost to Dallas and Dallas went on to the championship. By far our best shot but we had a depleted small ball lineup. New Free Agent Raja Bell did a good job filling in for JJ but wasnt near the player off the dribble to create shots for himself. Amare Stoudemire was out that season due to a knee injury and we still made it very tough on Dallas.
With Amare alone before knee injuries I believe this was Mike Ds best shot at the title.

2. San Antonio vs Phoenix - Mikes first full playoff season. JJ get his orbit yanked by Stackhouse in the series before. Without JJ.. Q Richardson is exposed for being simply a spot shooter. SA advances to tilte game and wins.

3. San Antionio vs Phoenix - 2 seasons ago, while I list this last its because I believe the season Amare and Boris were kicked something was fishy abou the officiating. Amare was in foul trouble in the first two games inside the 8 minute mark of both first qtrs. His system worked his players didnt execute simple as that.


I am tired of hiring Mikes System SSOL was to blame for the Suns not winning the title. It simply is so near sighted and so typical of the media to drive into fans heads. Statements without substance....
SSOL was innovative and beautiful, fact is with Grant and Shaq it wasnt effective.

Yeah, DA's system and players def had a shot at title if Raja/KT stayed healthy in 2006, and if it weren't for terrible officiating and Stern in 2007.

They didn't win the title, but there are 32 teams in NBA and only one of em wins it all.
Being the 2nd best team in the NBA over the past 3 years is fine. It's not like we were just a borderline playoff team or anything, no reason to panic and fu*k things up with stupid trades and now fire DA.

And Kerr's a total duma

b-ball forever wrote:The Gasol trade was dumb, but at least Memphis wasn't gonna make the playoffs anyways, so if Gasol didn't wanna stay there they may as well go get guys with potential like Crit/Marc Gasol/LA draft pick.
THAT is a team that wasn't goin anywhere anyways, they weren't even gonna make the playoffs. On the utha hand we were a team that actually still had the number 1 seed in the West pre-Shaq trade.

Unless we somehow get B. Scott, firing DA is gonna be all the way up there in terms management stupidty as well.

And I'm not a drama queen that whines whatever we do at all, I just get pissed when a couple retards decide to ruin our team, which makes a hell lot more sense then backing up getting rid of a system that was working fine, and that we were suportin this whole time

Remind me again, what was our record vs. .500 teams and playoff worthy teams before the trade? That's why it was done. Our record in the first half of the season was a complete farce and riddled with victories against unworthy opponents. If you want to hang your hat on that crap then that's on you.

It also became increasingly clear that Marion was not helping out the lockeroom. Guys were tired of it. The team was tired of it.

That Gasol trade was definately a big reason for trying to aquire another big, as it appeared we were going to have to not only deal with the Spurs, Utah, New Orleans - who all have physical front lines........but also the Lakers with Odom, Gasol, and what we thought was going to be Bynum as well.

Your analysis though of what Memphis got in return was not even close to be logical. They stole Gasol from Memphis, absolutely shoplifted, hijacked, hoodwinked, cleaned them out .........Memphis driving force to unload Gasol's contract had everything to do with making the books look better for an eventual sell to another ownership group.

enigmatics wrote:Remind me again, what was our record vs. .500 teams and playoff worthy teams before the trade? That's why it was done. Our record in the first half of the season was a complete farce and riddled with victories against unworthy opponents. If you want to hang your hat on that crap then that's on you.

And who gives a fu*k bout head 2 head reg season matchup records?
Post-Shaq trade we had a 2-0 record against the Spurs in the reg season, then we got pwned 1-4 in the playoffs, whoopity doo!

Not to mention we weren't even gonna play the fuggin Spurs in the first round if kept we Marion since we wuda winded up with a higher seed.

Maybe we wuda lost in the 2nd round after pwnin the Mavs or Nugz in round 1 if we kept Marion, but that's still a hell lot better then a first round exit in 5 games no matter how u try to spin it.

And then we'd be much better position to make decent moves this offseason then we are now with Shaq's shiyty contract.

Your analysis though of what Memphis got in return was not even close to be logical. They stole Gasol from Memphis, absolutely shoplifted, hijacked, hoodwinked, cleaned them out .........Memphis driving force to unload Gasol's contract had everything to do with making the books look better for an eventual sell to another ownership group.

And where the hell did I say the Gasol trade was smart, I said it was a dumb move.
It's just a bit less (Please Use More Appropriate Word) for a team that REALLY is goin nowhere like Memphis to get draft picks + a guy with nice potential like Crit + Kwame's expiring in exchange for a guy that doesn't wanna stay with em then it is for a team like the Suns to trade Marion for Fatass, his crap FT shooting, his crap pick n roll defense, and his crap contract.

b-ball forever wrote:And who gives a fu*k bout head 2 head reg season matchup records?
Post-Shaq trade we had a 2-0 record against the Spurs in the reg season, then we got pwned 1-4 in the playoffs, whoopity doo!

Not to mention we weren't even gonna play the fuggin Spurs in the first round if kept we Marion since we wuda winded up with a higher seed.

Maybe we wuda lost in the 2nd round after pwnin the Mavs or Nugz in round 1 if we kept Marion, but that's still a hell lot better then a first round exit in 5 games no matter how u try to spin it.

And then we'd be much better position to make decent moves this offseason then we are now with Shaq's shiyty contract.

I don't think you're getting it. The first half of the year was festured with easy win games. The Suns saw a lot more of the quality teams in the 2nd half of the year. There's not indication we would've finished any higher than we did.

And where the hell did I say the Gasol trade was smart, I said it was a dumb move.
It's just a bit less (Please Use More Appropriate Word) for a team that REALLY is goin nowhere like Memphis to get draft picks + a guy with nice potential like Crit + Kwame's expiring in exchange for a guy that doesn't wanna stay with em then it is for a team like the Suns to trade Marion for Fatass, his crap FT shooting, his crap pick n roll defense, and his crap contract

Shaq did everything we asked him to do. Don't scapegoat him....and again, D'Antoni wanted him so stop soley scapegoating Kerr.

enigmatics wrote:There's not indication we would've finished any higher than we did.

Like it or not, the Shaq trade DID cost us a few games because of the transition period. Regardless...I've said many times before and I'll say it again: the pre-Shaq squad were done. We were done the moment we dumped KT - the soft Suns got softer. You could argue about winning more garbage games in the regular season with Shawn and get an easier matchup, but we were not beating the Lakers and Spurs...we weren't beating the Hornets and Jazz either. I love Shawn, but with our soft post D I just don't see us go deep anyway.

1) KT deal - dumb and horrible, which led us to

2) Shaq deal - the result shows this is a lateral move...but at least we got bigger.

D'Antoni wanted him so stop soley scapegoating Kerr.

I don't think MikeD wanted the Shaq trade, regardless of what Kerr said during the press conference. It goes against everything MikeD has been about since he took over the coaching reigns. This trade probably is the cause of ruining the working relationship between the two.

mkot wrote: Like it or not, the Shaq trade DID cost us a few games because of the transition period. Regardless...I've said many times before and I'll say it again: the pre-Shaq squad were done. We were done the moment we dumped KT - the soft Suns got softer. You could argue about winning more garbage games in the regular season with Shawn and get an easier matchup, but we were not beating the Lakers and Spurs...we weren't beating the Hornets and Jazz either. I love Shawn, but with our soft post D I just don't see us go deep anyway.

1) KT deal - dumb and horrible, which led us to

2) Shaq deal - the result shows this is a lateral move...but at least we got bigger.

I'm with you on this. We took a chance and rolled the dice knowing that we weren't winning anything with Marion.

mkot wrote:-= original quote snipped =


Like it or not, the Shaq trade DID cost us a few games because of the transition period. Regardless...I've said many times before and I'll say it again: the pre-Shaq squad were done. We were done the moment we dumped KT - the soft Suns got softer. You could argue about winning more garbage games in the regular season with Shawn and get an easier matchup, but we were not beating the Lakers and Spurs...we weren't beating the Hornets and Jazz either. I love Shawn, but with our soft post D I just don't see us go deep anyway.

I agree with everthing here, but even if we prolly weren't gonna win the c-ship with Marion we still wuda been a better team then we are now, both short term and long term

Short term at worst we wuda lost in the 2nd round with a better seeding and first round matchup, which is still >>>> first round exit in 5 games no matter what.
Long term we'd also be in a better position to make decent offseason moves with Marion and his contract then with Shaq and his contract.

1) KT deal - dumb and horrible, which led us to

Yup, giving up draft picks with along an expiring bigman that can still play basketball and defend the post is just flat out (Please Use More Appropriate Word).

2) Shaq deal - the result shows this is a lateral move...

The result clearly shows it was a massive failure, not a lateral move.

When the trade got pulled off I said I didn't like it, but was gonna wait till the end of the playoffs before dishin out the final verdict.

Well now the playoffs have come and gone...
Result? ---->>> Skydive drop from 1st seed in the west to 6th seed in the west, and a first round exit in 5 games.

And don't forget that the guy who Marion was supposed to be guarding in the Spurs series ripped us apart bigtime during the entire series and averaged 30 pts on 52% FG shooting
Meantime Shaq looked like clown at a party on the court when the Spurs completely exposed his terrible pick n roll defense and FT shooting the whole fuggin series long.

That wasn't a lateral move, it was a missionary position from the vagi POV move

but at least we got bigger.

Bigger, and worse. It's not the size that counts, it's how you use it.

I don't think MikeD wanted the Shaq trade, regardless of what Kerr said during the press conference. It goes against everything MikeD has been about since he took over the coaching reigns. This trade probably is the cause of ruining the working relationship between the two.

Mos def

enigmatics wrote:I'm with you on this. We took a chance and rolled the dice knowing that we weren't winning anything with Marion.

That wasn't rollin the dice.

Trading Marion for a guy like Camby wuda been rolling the dice.

Trading Marion for Shaq was like goin to play strip poker dressed up like this :

hahahhaha