Statistics don't support giving Amare the rock in the clutch

enigmatics · Post #1 » by **enigmatics** » Wed May 14, 2008 9:50 pm

Some interesting numbers on Amare's performances in "the clutch" were discussed over on the ESPN board.

http://www.82games.com/CSORT6.HTM

WiseOldSun.XX wrote:Note the FG%'s for Diaw, Marion and Nash. Notice the stability in Nash's FG% and 3P% while creating his own shot over 83% of the time.

Notice how Stoudemire takes the most FGA attempts and his FG% drops almost 10 percentage points to 4th behind Marion, Diaw and Nash. Seems like a "go to guy" to me. LOL

Someone remind which game Stoudemire didn't give away in the last series against the Spurs?

walkingart · Post #2 » by **walkingart** » Wed May 14, 2008 10:12 pm

Interesting, while Nash seems to stay the course while increasing his FGA's; he turns the ball over excessively, worse than everybody except Rudy Gay. Amare who I often think of as being turnover prone, averages one third of the TO's as Nash and negates it with the number of steals he averages. He also improves his rebounding as well.

Numbers can misleading, especially when you don't look at them all.

b-ball forever · Post #3 » by **b-ball forever** » Wed May 14, 2008 10:15 pm

He's def had a few choke moments this season and playoffs for some reason.
Both at scoring from the field and on free throws.

It's prolly cuz everybody got it figured that we'll always go to either Amare or Nash in clutch time, which makes the final plays drawn for STAT predictable and easier to defend.
He also had his overall scoring load go up quite a bit this year.

Of course he also made quite a few clutch buckets as well, but we shud def try thinking of also running some final minute plays for peeps not named Nash or Amare at times, to make us less predictable.
Still keep the Amare-Nash PnR as our primary weapon, but don't use ONLY that in clutch time or u got a big disadvantage in the coaching game

-SDU- · Post #4 » by **-SDU-** » Wed May 14, 2008 10:56 pm

so explain to me why we were 1 and 16 in games decided by 3 points or less the year amare was injured and 16 and 6 the year he came back?

amare nash pick and roll is our go to move in the clutch and its been proven time and time again

does he make mistakes? sure, but that article suggests marion and diaw are better? sure their %'s might be better, because the only shots they take in the clutch are gimme's because the plays arent being run for them. Run the same plays for marion and diaw that you run for amare in the clutch and youll see they will shoot an even worse % than amare

nash then amare are our 2 best clutch options for creating on their own or with each other, the rest is a crapshoot

b-ball forever · Post #5 » by **b-ball forever** » Wed May 14, 2008 11:18 pm

Exactly, the reason Amare's clutch stats are lower then most the rest of the team is cuz we always run plays for him and Nash only in the final minutes.

It makes us become predictable in clutch time and makes Amare's crunch time numbers take a hit since the opponments' defenders and coach already know in advance what is gonna happen.
Amare and Nash are our 2 best options in crunch time, but that doesn't mean we shud ONLY run plays for them, else we become too one-dimensional, predictable, and easier to stop.

scootfu602 · Post #6 » by **scootfu602** » Wed May 14, 2008 11:39 pm

STATistics prove the he is our franchise player. Amare haters will eat there words

Nuff said

albasuna · Post #7 » by **albasuna** » Thu May 15, 2008 12:06 am

Id rather Nash have the ball and create then just dumping it to Amare and expecting him to create.

toucansma · Post #8 » by **toucansma** » Thu May 15, 2008 1:58 am

walkingart wrote:Interesting, while Nash seems to stay the course while increasing his FGA's; he turns the ball over excessively, worse than everybody except Rudy Gay. Amare who I often think of as being turnover prone, averages one third of the TO's as Nash and negates it with the number of steals he averages. He also improves his rebounding as well.

Numbers can misleading, especially when you don't look at them all.

I agree that Nash has been turning the ball over more in the clutch, but thats because he is often trying to force something to make a plan. Think of Peyton Manning throwing Ints when he is really trying to needle it in. Its not the only reason, but I think that is part of it, plus the spacing being so hectic at the end (as expected).

I still trust Nash with the ball in the clutch, he has come through so many times. He is a warrior.

Sun Scorched · Post #9 » by **Sun Scorched** » Thu May 15, 2008 4:04 am

I couldn't care less about Amare in the clutch.

What pisses me off is when we go into the half with Amare shooting 9-11 Then we come out of the half and Amare doesn't get a touch in the third, then we dump it into Amare in the fourth and go "save us" then after he doesn't pull out the W, "why didn't you save us?"

That's BS and I have screamed more at my TV because of that than anything else the Suns do combined.

scootfu602 · Post #10 » by **scootfu602** » Thu May 15, 2008 10:54 am

Sun Scorched wrote:I couldn't care less about Amare in the clutch.

What pisses me off is when we go into the half with Amare shooting 9-11 Then we come out of the half and Amare doesn't get a touch in the third, then we dump it into Amare in the fourth and go "save us" then after he doesn't pull out the W, "why didn't you save us?"

That's BS and I have screamed more at my TV because of that than anything else the Suns do combined.

YES
+1

Frank Lee · Post #11 » by **Frank Lee** » Thu May 15, 2008 11:49 am

Amare seems anxious when he doesn't get consistant touches and is more inclined to force things.

Face it, our late game and quarter breakdowns are what has cost this team...Nash and Amare both. An observation made recently by someone here was the bread/butter pick and roll between the two was starting about 5 ft further out. I do not get it why Stat jumps all the way out there to set his pick. It is almost like thinks that is the only way he'll get the ball. Poor coaching or poor playing ?

b-ball forever · Post #12 » by **b-ball forever** » Thu May 15, 2008 12:31 pm

LMAO, just noticed

Dirk : 42.2 FG% :lol:

nanoclarkology · Post #13 » by **nanoclarkology** » Thu May 15, 2008 5:18 pm

scootfu602 wrote:
Sun Scorched wrote:I couldn't care less about Amare in the clutch.

What pisses me off is when we go into the half with Amare shooting 9-11 Then we come out of the half and Amare doesn't get a touch in the third, then we dump it into Amare in the fourth and go "save us" then after he doesn't pull out the W, "why didn't you save us?"

That's BS and I have screamed more at my TV because of that than anything else the Suns do combined.

YES
+1

I can add my amen and +2 to that.

What they need to do is do th PnR all the time. Or every other time. Vary it throw to Shaq have him create. Then when the starters are out have a Barbosa/Diaw PnR. I don't know it sounds so easy. But the flow of the game really dictates how the players play.