RealGM

The past couple of days , we have been experiencing that age old piece of advise...
' Be careful what you wish for' . It is apparent, as a result of the past yrs of questionable dealings, our Front Orfice has painted themselves into a corner, requiring an adjustment to the once sound and promising 'Core' of this franchise.

Their ineptitude and cost vrs contribution theories have left us in shambles, and several contemplating dastardly schemes of revenge (speaking for myself) . We have a team and coach incapable of playing together with any consistancy... This... unfortunately is our bed... and no one wants to lie in it anymore.

I have seen countless trade proposals (created a few myself), but very few offer any improvement for this yr, partially because I don't think we will be able to gel as a unit in time for the play offs....not with this coach and/or remaining personel. And no trade vaults us into true contender status anyway.

Very few of these deals actually make us better next yr. Player for player, it is hard to match STAT talentwise. but, we are seeking a salary dump which will allow a FA signing, and perhaps a good draft pick or two.... so it is very hard to judge if we will actually be 'better' in the long run. I do think the flexibilty will be good, for as it stands, we can do nothing in the FA dept if we adhere to the fiscal constraints estalished.

Now it seems that Kerr-nel Klink has made it clear he is willing to trade anyone. Trying not to sound desparate, I imagine he has made and received a few calls. Honestly, the only untouchables on my list are Barbososo and Lou A


Why do we think by moving STAT we will be significantly better ?
Or trading SHAQ will suddenly free up the 'Old Suns'.
Can NASH be effective under this system ? For this Coach and General Mismanager ? He is counting the days till his departure IMO.
Do you really think HILL will stick around for this circus next yr ?
WHO on EARTH would want to sign here as a FA ?




This is not a one player fix.


I think it is time to clean house. If it means TANKING, I am all for it. GD, atleast we'd have something to look forward to (ie...the lotto) If we short sale some talent, so what ? Cut payroll and get picks. Wouldn'tbe a blessing in disguise if we never had to make another deal to F-n SAVE money... and have multiple draft picks to boot ?

Tell me why I am wrong. Do you REALLY think one deal will make us a contender ?

If a chance to trade NASH, HILL, SHAQ presented itself...as well as STAT.... well.... WHY NOT ?



and now, I will quote the Sage of Rage, The Tweaker of the House, The TruthFairyV from MaryV,

'DISCUSS'

I completely agree. Although I think its time to re-build and really test the fans and see if the Valley is still a Suns town.

the main problem is, even if you tank for the rest of the season and lose all games, you'll probably end with a pick around 8-10...

then we'll obviously stink next year, but guess what, mr. genius handed that pick to Oklahoma City with Kurt Thomas.

so breaking everything up before 2010 is a bad option. it's too late for that now.

amitg wrote:the main problem is, even if you tank for the rest of the season and lose all games, you'll probably end with a pick around 8-10...

True.... good point... but is that a bad thing ? As it is now, we will be lucky to be in the post season, then saddled with a pick in the high teens....

amitg wrote:then we'll obviously stink next year, but guess what, mr. genius handed that pick to Oklahoma City with Kurt Thomas.

Nothing will change that anyways....Can you see us , adding another yr with Father Time, being a contender next yr ? This is a gut shot wound, and we are just bleeding out in pain.

amitg wrote:so breaking everything up before 2010 is a bad option. it's too late for that now.

Like 2010 will be anything special for us ? Nash wil be gone, Shaq and Hill too, and from the looks of things STAT will bolt unless he is catered to... Our pockets may grab us a FA or 2... but I can't imagine any of the Marquis players coming here, especially with the rest of the league gearing up for the Free Agent extravaganza as well.

How are we going to stop Planet Orange from careening into the SUN ?

A record of 27-21, 2 games out of being the #4 Seed in the West, a starting 5 that has not played 26 games together and the front office should blow it up???????????????

Why would anyone want to just give up?

One would think a lineup of Nash-Richardson-Hill-Amare-Shaq could do some damage. I don't know what the remedy is for Steve Nash getting abused by Tony Parker in the playoffs but it seems like this Suns team could beat anyone on a given night, surprising to see this organization and its fans talk of just surrendering.

^^ that´s why we suck on defense. we have no one who can shut someone down. we all thought that ama´re would develope his defense and his rebounding abilities. he has been a dissapointment for all of us. he didn´t show heart and had no fighting spirit. there where high expactations on him - especially after putting up huge numbers beside shaq last year. - and he failed.
so everyone thinks that it could be the best by getting rid of amare and it would be the best to install a defensive minded mufo like bowen ( example )...

and i also think that we need someone to lead the defense. someone who shows nuts every game and is a hard nosed mofu. and the next problem on our roster is the thin back up line. we failed for years to add a solid back up to nash and we failed to get a veteran back up for shaq and amare.

so the frustration leads me to the point that we should break it up. build around j-rich, barbosa and ?

My blow it up scenario, hear me out on this...

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/t ... &te=&cash=

Please note: In this deal, Philly and New York each give us a first round choice.

This of course will NEVER happen because no one in the NBA has the cajones to admit they are wrong and shake things up, but this is why I would do it.

Philly- They lose a talented big man, a young stud, and a veteran PG, but gain Amare, Barbosa, and Vujacic. An Amare/Brand frontcourt, along with A.I. at the 3 and Barbosa at the 2 makes this team VERY dangerous in the East

L.A.- They get Shaq back, who has said recently he has no problem with Kobe or Phil, and fill the void left by Bynum. They lose Odom, a versatile forward (who has been playing off the bench), Vujacic, and Yue (a filler)

New York- Nash and Hill are sent to a reunion with Mike D (which is only fair after what they have done for Phoenix) and get another chance at the Run'n'Gun offense. The Knicks essentially send out expiring contracts and a first round pick, although Nate Robinson may be worth re-signing.

Phoenix- WOW. By my estimation, PHX acquires $40 million worth of expiring contracts, and some fairly talented pieces and picks.

The plan for next season-
Phoenix would then possess 3 first round picks, ranging from 10-20, a hefty amount of cap space, and some young pieces to build around. I will not get into the draft side of it, but people are overlooking NEXT year's free agent class. Here is a short list of just the unrestricted FA's: Mike Bibby, Drew Gooden, Ben Gordon, Andersen Varejao, Allen Iverson, Rasheed Wallace, Ron Artest, Shawn Marion, Stromile Swift, Chris Wilcox, Jermaine O'Neal, Carlos Boozer. With the Suns money, they should resign Odom, and target Boozer as a priority. Essentially leaving them with a starting line-up of...

PG- Robinson/Draft choice
SG- J Rich/Tucker
SF- Odom/Barnes
PF- Boozer/Draft choice
C- Dalembert/Draft choice

Just a dream? I think not. YES WE CAN

The cliche's in this thread are GETTING OUT OF HAND.

Question, how would you suns fans feel if you guys did the following trade:

Stephon Marbury, David Lee, Wilson Chandler

for

Amare Stoudamire, Jared Dudley, 2nd round pick (since sarver ends up trading them every year anyways).

^Not good. I'd do that for Shaq + Barbosa though...If Marbury's going to play that is

Ideally, blowing this team up needs to have hope for the future with draft picks, cap relief. and a young player or two....but including Marblurry in a deal is a certain step to that. I saw a Shaq trade to Cleveland that could make sense to the Cavs, but I don't know if they want him.

Riled Up wrote:A record of 27-21, 2 games out of being the #4 Seed in the West, a starting 5 that has not played 26 games together and the front office should blow it up???????????????

Why would anyone want to just give up?

One would think a lineup of Nash-Richardson-Hill-Amare-Shaq could do some damage. I don't know what the remedy is for Steve Nash getting abused by Tony Parker in the playoffs but it seems like this Suns team could beat anyone on a given night, surprising to see this organization and its fans talk of just surrendering.

Your sentiments are common. But is this a championship team ? You say this line up should do some damage It is what we all thought when first viewed...on paper. But our record against top teams is pitiful. Lately, anyone can beat us down. And now, more change is coming?

I suppose one trade will put us back on top ??? ..... One trade will make this a competitive squad next yr ? Take a look at the FAs open to bidding next yr. A yr when many teams are holding out cap space for 2010. If we had 30 mill to 40 million to shop among that lot... well, I think you could assemble an equally impressive crew, that are not past their prime.

Furthermore, one thing to think about......if there is one player to build a new team around, who would that be ? Shaq ? Nash ? or STAT ?


And as far as giving up ? Haha... I've been a fan for far too long to give up on the Suns...I just can't stand it when they give up on me. I can easily justify dismantling this line up in order to be better next yr or soon after. I guess I am just more and more inclined to stop the bleeding and start over. There is no bandaid deal that will put us any closer to a championship, IMO.

Nah you're right. It's understandable if we can't beat the top teams because of the gelling issues, but if we can't put away bottom feeders and non-playoff teams, it just shows that either the coaching needs a change or the roster needs a change. As of now, Kerr has decided Porter is our guy and he will overhaul the whole roster just so Porter's "system" would work and he wouldn't look like the idiot who screwed up this team.

Any trade right now would do jack for us as long as we have a coach who can't differentiate between a a go-to scorer and a role-player. And especially if he thinks the only scorer on this team is Shaq.

I highly doubt the Cavs would want Shaq....but if you guys really wanted blow blow it up...I'd imagine that a deal like

J-Rich
for
Wally, Pick,Cash

could be worked out.

to be honest i cant actualy beleive ur team is not top 3 in the league... on paper u guys r not missing anything...

Suns247 wrote:My blow it up scenario, hear me out on this...

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/t ... &te=&cash=

Please note: In this deal, Philly and New York each give us a first round choice.


Phoenix- WOW. By my estimation, PHX acquires $40 million worth of expiring contracts, and some fairly talented pieces and picks.

Wow lol, thats definitely a blow-up worthy scenario.

I'm not against blowing it up. But emotionally, I feel bad for Nash and Hill because I think they deserve better than this. I think we're f**ked either way though. We still have Sarver, Kerr and Porter managing and coaching this team, it's a faulty foundation. We have an owner who's making $$$ is his first and second priority and seems to have no knowledge whatsoever in owning a sport franchise. We also have a GM who's clueless in how to build a team the right way. He doesn't even have the two most basic skills needed in a GM - negotiation and talent evaluation. And there's Porter, who's just dumb.

You want to think long term, fire Porter first. That should be the first step, not trading away whoever. Then if Sarver isn't going to go bankrupt or fire Kerr, let's hope they can learn from all the mistakes they've made the past few years.

I honestly think, this team CAN compete, but it seems like they just don't want to play for Porter or even buy into his philosophies. A new coach would do wonders...But, I also haven't seen Shaq support Amare half as much as he pimped him out last year - which means he's seen first hand that Amare is in fact a wannabe Superstar

Is there anything Phoenix would want from the Celtics for Grant Hill? We have a few young players with potential that we could give you. I think the Celtics would be willing to give up almost any young player, except Perkins and Rondo. Eddie House is also not on the table.

Gabe Pruitt, 2 guard that can play some point. Very good defender and shooter, but not much of a playmaker and not ready to contribute to a contender.
Tony Allen - our best perimeter defender (would only give him up if we got Hill)
Leon Powe - our best low post player, but undersized (would prefer to keep him)
J.R. Giddens - rookie - excellent defender and rebounder for his size
Patrick O'Bryant - 7 footer with nice shooting touch, not much defense though
Glen "Big Baby" Davis - undersized power forward - needs time to develop

I said this when we made the trade last year, Marion was the wrong player to let go. I am fine with dumping the ball into shaq, but we are lacking what marion did year in and year out.

He was not the cancer, amare has proven that. trading marion away was supposed to help chemistry but it has gotten worse. trading amare would have probably netted us their #1 and we would have got beasley or rose.

My frustration with amare grows daily. he seems to have regressed defensively. and while he is a better player than marion, marion never coasted. if his offense wasnt there he did everything else to help the team.

i don't have a solution for these problems, but i can say they seem to center around amare, porter, and kerr. so i say get rid of all three. can't get rid of the owner, he owns the team.

I really like Allen and Powe - they play the game the right way. But Hill has been amazing this year

Barnes, you can have for a cactus