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Center: how big a need?

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Center: how big a need? 

Post#1 » by NashtyNas » Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:13 am

After the KT thread, it got me thinking, what exactly are we looking for in a Center for the Suns now and going into the future (as long as we have Amar'e)? We really haven't needed much from our centers in the SSOL era other than good defense and floor spacing. We need our center to be able to protect the rim, be a good shoot blocker, a smart defender, and good at defending the pick and roll/pop. We need him to be able to hit a shot past 12ft and stay out of STAT's way on offense, set good screens, and being quick up&down the floor is always a plus. Looking at all that, we don't need as much from our C's as other teams do, and therefore I think it will not be hard if we're willing to give up a few pieces here and there to get one.

Here is a list that's somewhat cheap and fits most of our needs, in no particular order:
a) Glen 'Big Baby' Davis

Positives: He can spread the floor real well, great strength, good man to man defense, and can defend the P&R/P&P and set good screens. He'd come pretty cheap, if we have about 3-4mil to spend.

Negatives: He's over weight and not the quickest horse, and he's a tweener. Also, I believe he's a RFA.

b) Jeff Foster

Positives: He's an above average defender, a veteran leader, ego-less, can defend man to man and is a good help defender as well. Solid shot blocker, and is quick enough to defend the P&R/P&P pretty well.

Negatives: He's getting up there in age, is already under contract (that goes on after 2010) and would probably require us giving up Barbosa or a few of our younglings.

c) Rasho Nesterovic

Positives: See Jeff Foster. In addition, he'd come cheap and is a FA.

Negatives: He's also getting old & is pretty slow.

d) Marcin Gortat

Positives: Young, athletic, good defender, quick, can defend, good shot blocker.

Negatives: Not a great shooter, contract isn't very like-able and we might regret it later, and we'd have to give up something of big value for him. Also,the BYC status makes a trade very difficult.

e) Kurt Thomas

Positives: Still is a good defender and shooter and fills most of our needs. Great leader, already familiar with the team and basics of the system.

Negatives: REALLY old, slower than before, already under contact but wouldn't require much to get him (Pavlovic would get it done).

f) Fabricio Oberto

Positives: See Nesterovic. He would also come cheap.

Negatives: Old, kind of slow, don't know if he'd come to Suns.

g) Joel Pryzbilla

Positives: Great defender, good IQ, strong, brings toughness & leadership.

Negatives: Not the quickest cat (lol), already under a contract that might require us giving up something worthwhile, and not at all good at spreading the floor (not a good jump shooter at all).


Implausible, but still a small possibility options:

Mehmet Okur

Positives: Great shooter, brings a good dimension to the scoring of this team (3pt shooting big), good IQ.

Negatives: Not the best defender, not very strong, old, just got a contract extension he may or may not have deserved.

Zydrunas Ilguaskas

Positives: See Memo minus the 3PT shooting.

Negatives: 1 year rental, horrible speed, don't know if he would play for us, and don't know how we could get him.


What do you guys think? The easiest would be to sign Big Baby, but my preferred is to sign Rasho/Oberto and give that a try. All that of course, if we can't get Kerr to become a genius and get Otis to agree to a Reddick/Johnson/Gortat for Richardson trade. :oops: But realistically speaking, they're old, but they won't have to play more than 25 minutes, which is great, and come playoff time, they'd be very very helpful. I'd love to burn the Spurs by getting one of them as well, because they're interested in getting them back. :lol:
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Re: Center: how big a need? 

Post#2 » by nevetsov » Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:20 am

I think you summed it up nicely :)
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Re: Center: how big a need? 

Post#3 » by nevetsov » Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:22 am

Rasheed Wallace would have been ideal I think, McDyess also would have been solid.

Can we bring back a prime Cliff Robinson or Sam Perkins?
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Re: Center: how big a need? 

Post#4 » by NashtyNas » Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:24 am

Seriously wouldn't mind a trade like Richardson for Anthony Johnson, JJ Reddick and Marcin Gortat and then we give them Dragic for part of the TPE. Save's money and gets us what we want/need. We'll cut Pavs and have a 13 man roster of this:

Nash/Johnson
Dudley/Barbosa/Reddick
Hill/Clark/Tucker
Amar'e/Frye/Amundson
Gortat/Lopez/Amundson

Orlando does this to become:

Nelson/Dragic
Richardson/Pietrus
Carter/Barnes
Lewis/Anderson
Howard/Bass

Holyyyyy.
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Re: Center: how big a need? 

Post#5 » by Nando88 » Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:39 am

oliver miller anyone? heard he's making a come back! lol

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Re: Center: how big a need? 

Post#6 » by CraigDeuce » Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:40 am

Jeff Foster would be amazing to have on the boards, offensive rebounds in particular..I've liked him as a possible acquisition for quite a while. He's not the most intimidating presence at the rim tho.
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Re: Center: how big a need? 

Post#7 » by NashtyNas » Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:50 am

Agreed CD, but he's not bad, and he can hold his own. He's quick enough to be a good defender for the P&R, which was our main weakness with Nash/Shaq. We're gonna have Nash for 3 more years, so we need to improve the C's P&R defense, and that should be our #1 priority.
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Re: Center: how big a need? 

Post#8 » by Frank Lee » Wed Jul 22, 2009 10:36 am

Milw has 4 centers on their roster. Thomas is the most attractive, but we give up CASH savings for him.... UNLIKELY with our new found 'Financial Flexibility'. Fransisco Elson could be had for our TE and/or may be work Tucker in.
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Re: Center: how big a need? 

Post#9 » by NashtyNas » Wed Jul 22, 2009 10:46 am

Pavs for Thomas works for both sides, its a matter of if we are even interested in acquiring him.
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Re: Center: how big a need? 

Post#10 » by lilfishi22 » Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:13 pm

I'd like Pavs for KT.

It really depends what our FO wants. If we want to do enough to be competitive and be exciting at the same time, buy out Pavs. If we wanna actually have chance to get past the first round, then we should look at a few KT or make that trade that JRich trade you proposed.
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Re: Center: how big a need? 

Post#11 » by BobbieL » Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:42 pm

lilfishi22 wrote:I'd like Pavs for KT.

It really depends what our FO wants. If we want to do enough to be competitive and be exciting at the same time, buy out Pavs. If we wanna actually have chance to get past the first round, then we should look at a few KT or make that trade that JRich trade you proposed.


You hit the nail right on the head. Were the cash savings for Shaq and Wallace part of the trade enough that they can now do a swap of a Pavlovic contract for a Kurt Thomas type deal (expiring contract, the other team gets the savings, the Suns get the one year player) - that will make the team better

There is a reason the team has not waived Sasha Pavlovic yet. I am hoping because late August, early September, the 60 day rule will be over for some players and the Suns can then swing the Sasha for Kurt and Salim deal - waive SAlim and see what happens. KT make like $3.8 so another couple hundred grand need to be thrown in. So, I think if Salim SToudemire is added, the dollars work after 60 days

And as was mentioned, I would take Elson for Tucker or the TE, too -- and if need be, they waive Sasha.

The team needs another body for rebounding and defense to help Lopez
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Re: Center: how big a need? 

Post#12 » by rsavaj » Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:20 pm

Pavs and Tucker for Elson, Thomas and Salim Stoudamire. Gives us two bigs and deadly homegrown shooter.
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Re: Center: how big a need? 

Post#13 » by BobbieL » Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:42 pm

rsavaj wrote:Pavs and Tucker for Elson, Thomas and Salim Stoudamire. Gives us two bigs and deadly homegrown shooter.


I like this trade but unless you could waive Salim, it would be more dollars to the bottom line. But, if the Suns wanted to save some cash -they could also send the $2m trade exception for Elson, waive Pavlovic. Net savings of $1.6m, doubled to $3.2m cash (Pavlovic waive savings of $3.3m less Elsons $1.7m) - and still get the big man they need who is better then Johan Petro
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Re: Center: how big a need? 

Post#14 » by rsavaj » Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:49 pm

BobbieL wrote:
rsavaj wrote:Pavs and Tucker for Elson, Thomas and Salim Stoudamire. Gives us two bigs and deadly homegrown shooter.


I like this trade but unless you could waive Salim, it would be more dollars to the bottom line. But, if the Suns wanted to save some cash -they could also send the $2m trade exception for Elson, waive Pavlovic. Net savings of $1.6m, doubled to $3.2m cash (Pavlovic waive savings of $3.3m less Elsons $1.7m) - and still get the big man they need who is better then Johan Petro


I think the trade still works w/o Salim in it(Pavs/Tucker for KT/Elson) but I've wanted Salim to be a Sun for a few years now lol
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Re: Center: how big a need? 

Post#15 » by realsunsfan » Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:12 pm

I know he has been mentioned on one of these threads before, but I think Fabricio Oberto would be a nice fit for us, high bbiq, great rebounder, good passer and most importantly good post defense and can somewhat run the floor. He will also not clog the paint like Shaq on offense. Money wise I think he is at about 3.5 mil ? Thoughts guys ????
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Re: Center: how big a need? 

Post#16 » by Qwigglez » Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:43 pm

I think if the Suns get most of those players listed it would take away from the SSOL theory. The only guy I would want is Kurt Thomas because he can still spread the floor with Amare out there. If we got anyone else it would be an easy double team on Amare because guys like Glen Davis, Oberto, Elson have no reliable jumpshot.
The Suns are probably looking to get Kurt Thomas, but will trade Sasha and Tucker for him, that way the Bucks get a young player and can still cut expenses.
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Re: Center: how big a need? 

Post#17 » by MaryvalesFinest » Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:48 pm

I don't know what Kerr is waiting for, both teams would probally jump at the chance to do a Pavlovic-Kurt Thomas swap. The Bucks save even more money and the Suns get back KT.
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Re: Center: how big a need? 

Post#18 » by Qwigglez » Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:57 pm

MaryvalesFinest wrote:I don't know what Kerr is waiting for, both teams would probally jump at the chance to do a Pavlovic-Kurt Thomas swap. The Bucks save even more money and the Suns get back KT.


I think the Suns want to include Tucker.
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Re: Center: how big a need? 

Post#19 » by BobbieL » Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:40 pm

MaryvalesFinest wrote:I don't know what Kerr is waiting for, both teams would probally jump at the chance to do a Pavlovic-Kurt Thomas swap. The Bucks save even more money and the Suns get back KT.


60 day trade rule is the holdup - or COULD be the holdup
Thomas for Sasha straight up doesn't work - Sasha makes about $250k too much or something like that
So have to add bodies to the deal - and that means Thomas will have to be a Buck for 60 days - and Elson too
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Re: Center: how big a need? 

Post#20 » by NashtyNas » Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:52 pm

If you think BBD doesn't have a reliable JS, I question your opinion. Glen Davis has a very reliable jump shot, with range out to 18ft. The problem is he's a tweener at PF, much less C, and is over weight, which would mean he would have problems keeping up with our up-tempo style; although, rumors say he's lost 25pounds this summer, which could make him a very intriguing option to start at PF along side Amar'e but guard C's.
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