Start Dudley?

[sunsfever68]

What do you guys think about the possibility of starting Dudley?

Grant HIll is the superior player but Dudley might be that spark to get Amare going on D and channing going. He seems to just play harder than everyone else. I love him off the bench too but I'm wondering if this might balance the lineups out a little more. Dudley obviously isn't going to score as much but I trust him as a good defender out there who gets steals gets in passing lanes and will get better over the season too.

Off the bench we'd be better offensively led by Barbosa and Hill. That might help Dragic and Amundsen and Clark too having a vet like Hill play with them.

so what do you think?

[A roc 23]

Nah I don't think so. If you all remember Hill always plays best in the first quarter, when he's fresh. He's been a monster in many first quarters since he's been here by running the floor with Nash. I don't think the Suns should take away any of Nash and Hill's time on the court together because they have great chemistry. Hill is still a formidable scorer and defender, and fits best in with the starting lineup. Dudley can come in protect the lead with his rebounding and defense. Plus he can play the 3 or 4 off the bench.

Also don't forget Hill is the Suns best perimeter defender. Dudley is just more intense with his energy, but he still can't cover the fast SG/SF consistently like Hill.

[sunsfever68]

that's true about the fast shooting guard or small forward. Honestly J rich should be able to do that. He's quick as all can be but he needs to get back to his michigan state days on defense. Dont know where those went he used to be a force on that side of the ball. I think Hill is a guy who can get it going by himself though but does better with Nash in the lineup. Everyone does better with Nash in the lineup Steve makes the game so much easier for everyone else. Just a thought. Might be worth a shot in a couple easy games like against the Kings, Grizzlies etc.

[lilfishi22]

If Hill didn't play so much better as a starter I would consider it. Hill in the 2nd unit would make our players off the bench much better because of his ability to handle to ball and run an offense. Dudley is also a great glue guy who would look very good in our starting line up. He'll play the kinda role Ariza did for the Lakers, not necessarily a vital part of the offense but there to shoot corner threes, spread the floor, play D and give 100% energy and hustle. But it must be said, Hill is still the superior defender and JDud's defense is more based on his intensity and energy rather than footwork and actual technique.

[JohnVancouver]

that's true about the fast shooting guard or small forward. Honestly J rich should be able to do that. He's quick as all can be but he needs to get back to his michigan state days on defense. Dont know where those went he used to be a force on that side of the ball. ....

He went to play for Don Nelson

[nashrambler13]

I dont know- Hill SUCKS off the bench.

[TheMan44]

Starting Dudley at small forward is a fantastic idea. Can't believe this wasn't mentioned before.

1. Dudley is actually one of those guys waiting for break lose and become very very good. He's like a Trevor Ariza waiting to happen - went from a nobody playing for the Knicks/Magic to a Los Angeles Lakers championship superstar starting at small forward. Likewise, Dudley is one of those guys who you KNOW will end up being really good once he starts for another team - such as the Lakers.

2. Suns bench is extremely thin and has no scoring whatsoever besides Barbosa. Having Grant Hill as the 7th man after Barbosa ensures balanced scoring since the starters already have 4 guys who can shoot and don't need Grant Hill to start and score.

Heck, I'm going to change my signature about this subject...

[A roc 23]

He's like a Trevor Ariza waiting to happen - went from a nobody playing for the Knicks/Magic to a Los Angeles Lakers championship superstar starting at small forward.

And we all saw what happened to Hill when he was put on the bench before. He was awful.

Dudley is perfect right where he is. A tough role player who can come in as a combo forward. Hill starts the game so well with the starting unit. He looks like he's still a star in most first quarters and the Hill-leak-out-pass-from-Nash is a deadly weapon because of Hill's super long and quick strides to the basket.

Plus Hill is old. He gets stiff sitting on the bench, thus is lowered performance after he sits for too long. He needs to start playing right from warm up. It's been proven.

I say just increase Dudley's minutes, including his minutes with the starters. Maybe take Hill out first and let Dudley have a go with the starting lineup for a bit.

[sunsfever68]

stat wise Ariza and Dudley may be similar but Ariza is more talented than Dudley so let's not say Dudley is Ariza. Every one of us would rather have Ariza than Dudley he's a better player.

Regardless Dudley is a quality bench guy who gives it all and that in a way is better than having the athlete who's been blessed with every physical attribute but doesn't apply himself to their full abilities (Amare on defense and rebounding...nice game tonight though keep it up). He's endearing and lovable and he might be ok as a starter. If we don't want to move Hill to the bench we could consider moving J rich to the bench but you can't really have Dragic Barbosa and J rich on the floor together we'd be really small out there and that's a point guard and 2 shooting guards.

I do remember Hill being bad off the bench so I guess it's fine he start but it's something to consider because if he could excel off the bench it'd be worth it to balance the team.

[WTFsunsFTW]

Severe cases of short term memory loss...

Grant is a starter. You put your best 5 on the floor to start the game. End of discussion.

[nashrambler13]

He's like a Trevor Ariza waiting to happen - went from a nobody playing for the Knicks/Magic to a Los Angeles Lakers championship superstar starting at small forward.

yeh, trevor ariza is WAY overrated.

[nashrambler13]

Severe cases of short term memory loss...

Grant is a starter. You put your best 5 on the floor to start the game. End of discussion.

thats debatable- was barbosa not better than old raja bell?

[TheMan44]

Severe cases of short term memory loss...

Grant is a starter. You put your best 5 on the floor to start the game. End of discussion.

Uh, NO. You're wrong. Way too wrong.

Everybody knows that a strong bench - in particular having a stronger backup compared to your starter - is a wise strategic move demonstrated by some of the best coaches in the NBA.

Why? Because this strategy wins championships. You always put your less talented (offensively) inferior player ahead of the better offensive talent because you want to spark up the bench while providing key defense with the starters. Examples include Bruce Bowen (over Finley and Manu), Trevor Ariza (over Lamar Odom last year), Ronnie Brewer/CJ Miles (over Andre Kirilenko), and Rodney Stuckey (over Allen Iverson last year).

There are countless other examples from decades of championship winning teams who have followed this winning formula. Just look at history as evidence.

If Phil Jackson or the great Greg Pop were coaching this club, DUDLEY would be a starter and Grant Hill would definitely come off the bench - allowing this club to win more than you could imagine.

Dudley needs to start and Grant needs to be 7th man. End of discussion.

[rsavaj]

He's like a Trevor Ariza waiting to happen - went from a nobody playing for the Knicks/Magic to a Los Angeles Lakers championship superstar starting at small forward.

And we all saw what happened to Hill when he was put on the bench before. He was awful.

Dudley is perfect right where he is. A tough role player who can come in as a combo forward. Hill starts the game so well with the starting unit. He looks like he's still a star in most first quarters and the Hill-leak-out-pass-from-Nash is a deadly weapon because of Hill's super long and quick strides to the basket.

Plus Hill is old. He gets stiff sitting on the bench, thus is lowered performance after he sits for too long. He needs to start playing right from warm up. It's been proven.

I say just increase Dudley's minutes, including his minutes with the starters. Maybe take Hill out first and let Dudley have a go with the starting lineup for a bit.

My thoughts exactly.

[A roc 23]

Uh, NO. You're wrong. Way too wrong.

Everybody knows that a strong bench - in particular having a stronger backup compared to your starter - is a wise strategic move demonstrated by some of the best coaches in the NBA.

Why? Because this strategy wins championships. You always put your less talented (offensively) inferior player ahead of the better offensive talent because you want to spark up the bench while providing key defense with the starters. Examples include Bruce Bowen (over Finley and Manu), Trevor Ariza (over Lamar Odom last year), Ronnie Brewer/CJ Miles (over Andre Kirilenko), and Rodney Stuckey (over Allen Iverson last year).

There are countless other examples from decades of championship winning teams who have followed this winning formula. Just look at history as evidence.

If Phil Jackson or the great Greg Pop were coaching this club, DUDLEY would be a starter and Grant Hill would definitely come off the bench - allowing this club to win more than you could imagine.

Dudley needs to start and Grant needs to be 7th man. End of discussion.

Umm, no, not end of discussion. What is your reasoning here?

While obviously you'd don't always start all your best players, you should always start your best line up. Hill has proven that he belongs in the starting line up. All your examples have been proven to work (not really the AI one) and that's why they are used. It has been PROVEN that Hill plays on another level when starting, thus it has been concluded that Hill will start. Dudley is not so talented that he is worth minimalizing our best perimeter defender.

Most of us thought it was a great idea to have Hill come off the bench for Matt Barnes, so he could handle the ball more and let Barbosa focus more on scoring. BUT IT DID NOT WORK. Hill was not good coming off the bench, his numbers dropped considerably and his impact was not what most people thought it would be. Subsequently it has been shown that Hill is not as effective when he sits for a long period of time because he is an older player, while it appears Dudley can come in at any time and have the same impact.

Why would the Suns put Hill, the captain of the team who is the Sun's best defender, who has shown that he is not effective off the bench and has great chemistry with the starting line up, right back in a situation that proved to be a bad idea?

[Never Fear 33 Is Here]

[quote=""A roc 23]Why would the Suns put Hill, the captain of the team who is the Sun's best defender, who has shown that he is not effective off the bench and has great chemistry with the starting line up, right back in a situation that proved to be a bad idea?[/quote]

Possibly the smartest thing that has been said in this thread.

[nashrambler13]

Severe cases of short term memory loss...

Grant is a starter. You put your best 5 on the floor to start the game. End of discussion.

Uh, NO. You're wrong. Way too wrong.

Everybody knows that a strong bench - in particular having a stronger backup compared to your starter - is a wise strategic move demonstrated by some of the best coaches in the NBA.

Why? Because this strategy wins championships. You always put your less talented (offensively) inferior player ahead of the better offensive talent because you want to spark up the bench while providing key defense with the starters. Examples include Bruce Bowen (over Finley and Manu), Trevor Ariza (over Lamar Odom last year), Ronnie Brewer/CJ Miles (over Andre Kirilenko), and Rodney Stuckey (over Allen Iverson last year).

There are countless other examples from decades of championship winning teams who have followed this winning formula. Just look at history as evidence.

If Phil Jackson or the great Greg Pop were coaching this club, DUDLEY would be a starter and Grant Hill would definitely come off the bench - allowing this club to win more than you could imagine.

Dudley needs to start and Grant needs to be 7th man. End of discussion.

Umm, no, not end of discussion. What is your reasoning here?

While obviously you'd don't always start all your best players, you should always start your best line up. Hill has proven that he belongs in the starting line up. All your examples have been proven to work (not really the AI one) and that's why they are used. It has been PROVEN that Hill plays on another level when starting, thus it has been concluded that Hill will start. Dudley is not so talented that he is worth minimalizing our best perimeter defender.

Most of us thought it was a great idea to have Hill come off the bench for Matt Barnes, so he could handle the ball more and let Barbosa focus more on scoring. BUT IT DID NOT WORK. Hill was not good coming off the bench, his numbers dropped considerably and his impact was not what most people thought it would be. Subsequently it has been shown that Hill is not as effective when he sits for a long period of time because he is an older player, while it appears Dudley can come in at any time and have the same impact.

Why would the Suns put Hill, the captain of the team who is the Sun's best defender, who has shown that he is not effective off the bench and has great chemistry with the starting line up, right back in a situation that proved to be a bad idea?

First off, let me start out by saying this: A_Roc_23 is dead on with his points on GHill starting- it didnt work, best perimiter defender, etc. i'm not arguing that at ALL.

although, sunsman (while being wrong about dudley) is right about contradicting WTF's: "You put your best 5 on the floor to start the game" statement. most of his examples are true, but AGAIN (restating A_Roc):

Why would the Suns put Hill, the captain of the team who is the Sun's best defender, who has shown that he is not effective off the bench and has great chemistry with the starting line up, right back in a situation that proved to be a bad idea?

You always put your less talented (offensively) inferior player ahead of the better offensive talent because you want to spark up the bench while providing key defense with the starters.

lol, sorry: so should we start amundson over Amare Stoudemire?

[TheMan44]

lol, sorry: so should we start amundson over Amare Stoudemire?

Hey, not a bad idea. The way Amare rebounds, I think he is bench material.

[aIvin adams]

lol, sorry: so should we start amundson over Amare Stoudemire?

Hey, not a bad idea. The way Amare rebounds, I think he is bench material.

thats a joke i hope..

this isnt even close to happening. im sure thats why they started carlos powell the other night, so that dudley could stay in his role coming off the bench.

[nashrambler13]

lol, sorry: so should we start amundson over Amare Stoudemire?

Hey, not a bad idea. The way Amare rebounds, I think he is bench material.

thats a joke i hope..

AA, thats what i was thinking.