Suns shouldve kept Shaq

statisback · Post #1 » by **statisback** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:02 pm

they would be very competitive in the west. Aside from Spurs and Lakers who are clearly above the rest, they were right there with Mavs, Blazers, Nuggets.

Now they are basically right with Clippers, Jazz, and Rockets battling for the 8th spot.

Last season was not a good representation.

1. Porter coached the first half of the season.
2. Gentry comes in and they are basically back to D'Antoni style ball EXCEPT no Amare.

This season they wouldve really tested it out with a very talented healthy team of Nash, JRich, Shaq, Amare, Hill/Dudley and the additions of Channing, Clark and development of Dragic along with Barbosa.

And they would be playing under Gentry. Its a shame that Sarver is such a penny pinching fool that he dealt Shaq for cap space instead of trying to be competitive this upcoming season.

Fo-Real · Post #2 » by **Fo-Real** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:43 pm

NO!!! Shaq isnt a good fit for anything we do, from the time of the trade, he was a mismatch. 7 seconds or Shaq is stupid and disrespectful to Steve, Amare, and the pick and roll. Shaq dosnt work in our system, and mutes the pieces that actually do fit, like Steve, Amare, Grant, and J Rich. I couldnt watch another season of him getting torched at both man on defense and the pick and roll with Steve. He had a good fg percentage but not when he was given the ball in the post to go one on one, at that he was marginal, he was no longer a go to guy in the post when you needed a sure bucket to secure the win and you could count on atleast 2 charging fouls per game from him. Changing our ofense back to run and gun, would have exposed him even further this year, he would be a 20 million dollar fast break starter, no thanks. Our defense will be better this year simply because Fry has quicker feet to get in the lane, and atleast show on the pick and roll/pop. Last year, even when we won a few games to start the season, i remember thinking this is friggin boaring, no dunks, no fast breaks, no half court lobs, there was no excitement, it sucked REALLY!!!

Post #3 » by **rsavaj** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:07 pm

I actually really liked 7 Seconds or Shaq. 117.7 ppg over 31 games....are you serious? That's mindblowing.

Post #4 » by **Miklo** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:08 pm

Yeah Shaq just doesn't fit with a team who is hoping to average 110+ PPG. I know he did last year but that's not sustainable. Of course, we should have actually gotten value BACK from trading him, but you kind of have to go one way or another with run n' gun so he had to go.

sunsfever68 · Post #5 » by **sunsfever68** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:19 pm

Honestly the biggest things shaq did to hurt the team were his pick and roll defense, or lack thereof, he clogged up the lane on offense, and his salary was huge.

That being said he averaged 17 and 9. That's great numbers for a center.

Easy buckets are a necessity for nba teams. Shaq was NOT the problem. We couldn't stop anybody on defense. I don't think 117 ppg is not enough to beat teams it was our defense. Now the pick and roll was the most used play against us on D and it caused our D to collapse and then the ball would kick to the corner and they'd get open 3's.

But to those who blame Shaq I don't think really understand how the game works. The game was always been won with dominant big men. Shaq didn't kill our chances of success. The coaching change was hard to deal with Porter sucked then it was a different and better style with Gentry but Shaq just never clicked in the locker room and that was big the franchise player Nash who wanted him out.

Shaq had his limitations just like every player was but at times we was our most consistent weapon. I don't know about ya'll but I LOVED it when they would dump into Shaq and he'd go to work and drop a nifty spin move on duncan and make it in. I know it slows the game down but playoff basketball isn't the same as regular season ball as we've all had the pleasant experience of finding out these last 5 years.

Post #6 » by **lilfishi22** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:23 pm

Even if Amare hadn't gotten injured and played in a SSOS system, Shaq is still going to be in the lane blocking Amare's way. SSOS was basically Porter's system with a quicker pace and more reliance on 3pt shooters, Shaq's still gotta be in the lane to be effective. Probably only D'Antoni could've worked Shaq into a proper SSOL system without marginalizing Nash or Amare.

The only thing i didn't like about the Shaq trade (To Cavs) is that we didn't get anything back. Hickson would've been a real nice piece and as another poster said, including him in the deal shouldn't have been a deal breaker.

aIvin adams · Post #7 » by **aIvin adams** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:48 pm

1. defense
- suns might actually be better w stat and frye than with shaq and stat. i'd rather have frye guarding a C and have stat w weakside help if nash/barbs/jrich are guarding the perimeter. its close bc shaq did some very positive things in post defense but i think this is an improvement.

2. $
- i dont hate on sarver for trying not to bleed money. there are a handful of owners who dont mind swimming in the red to compete. im not going to complain that sarver isnt one of them. the shaq trade didnt have an immediate return in spending-- unless you count frye, hill, and nash-- but the money saved is a definite plus.

3. chemistry
- shaq is something of a personality load. i dont think anyone doubts that he ripped steve nash off with his 'shaq vs' show. i dont think shaq has the worst personality in the league in terms of team-building, but he's definitely on the wrong side of the bell-curve.

i like shaq more now than i did before he was a sun but im happy about that trade. ~120 ppg is amazing, but we dont have anything to compare it to until this season's suns do their thing.

Post #8 » by **Miklo** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:54 pm

sunsfever68 wrote:Honestly the biggest things shaq did to hurt the team were his pick and roll defense, or lack thereof, he clogged up the lane on offense, and his salary was huge.

That being said he averaged 17 and 9. That's great numbers for a center.

Easy buckets are a necessity for nba teams. Shaq was NOT the problem. We couldn't stop anybody on defense. I don't think 117 ppg is not enough to beat teams it was our defense. Now the pick and roll was the most used play against us on D and it caused our D to collapse and then the ball would kick to the corner and they'd get open 3's.

But to those who blame Shaq I don't think really understand how the game works. The game was always been won with dominant big men. Shaq didn't kill our chances of success. The coaching change was hard to deal with Porter sucked then it was a different and better style with Gentry but Shaq just never clicked in the locker room and that was big the franchise player Nash who wanted him out.

Shaq had his limitations just like every player was but at times we was our most consistent weapon. I don't know about ya'll but I LOVED it when they would dump into Shaq and he'd go to work and drop a nifty spin move on duncan and make it in. I know it slows the game down but playoff basketball isn't the same as regular season ball as we've all had the pleasant experience of finding out these last 5 years.

I have to disagree. Shaq had great averages, sure. But to say that he wasn't the problem, defense was the problem - I take issue with that because we brought him in specifically FOR defense. If he's not gonna bolster that enough, then all we have is a 350 pound weight being dragged down the court on the break.

Also to those who are saying he did not hold back our scoring average - the reason he can't effectively fit into a run n' gun system is that if your rebounders aren't down the court in time on the break, you don't have a shot at grabbing the offensive board after you chuck up a quick shot in under 7 seconds.

So with Shaq's role being defense and rebounding, his rebounding is not as effective when it doesn't feed or work with the break - even if he gets a defensive board to initiate the break that means he will be last up the court by far. And his defense, well as fishi mentioned the main person he would block would be our very own Amar'e.

Post #9 » by **rsavaj** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 5:05 pm

But he provided the best post defense we had since Kurt Thomas, and he drastically improved our rebounding differential. I admit, the way Porter used Shaq absolutely suffocated the rest of our team, but the D'Antoni/Gentry Suns w/ Shaq were dangerous. I just regret we didn't get to see SSOS with Amare and Barbosa last season.

Post #10 » by **Miklo** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 5:11 pm

rsavaj wrote:But he provided the best post defense we had since Kurt Thomas, and he drastically improved our rebounding differential. I admit, the way Porter used Shaq absolutely suffocated the rest of our team, but the D'Antoni/Gentry Suns w/ Shaq were dangerous. I just regret we didn't get to see SSOS with Amare and Barbosa last season.

Completely agree, and it is definitely regrettable we don't get to see Shaq/Amar'e/Barbs for a season but it definitely would have been an experiment. I'm all for going with what we know, the straight up run n' gun, knowing that we have to use our time with Nash/Hill still of age before the window closes.

Post #11 » by **TASTIC** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 5:17 pm

I honestly think Nash would have walked/asked for a trade if Shaq was around for another year

Fo-Real · Post #12 » by **Fo-Real** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 5:48 pm

TASTIC wrote:I honestly think Nash would have walked/asked for a trade if Shaq was around for another year

YEP!!!, So witch would you rather have Steve and Amare, or Amare and Shaq.

grumpysaddle · Post #13 » by **grumpysaddle** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:53 pm

which.

i'd much rather see Nash and Amare. who would facilitate the offense without Nash? would Dragic become the starting PG? that's lol-worthy... or the Suns would get some half-assed PG out of his prime and nowhere near the level of Nash, even at his age.

I say good riddance to Shaq. I guarantee the Cavs fans will start disliking him in a few weeks.

balleramil · Post #14 » by **balleramil** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 7:03 pm

Thank you Phoenix for bringing the Cavs a championship

Fo-Real · Post #15 » by **Fo-Real** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 7:35 pm

Dont count your chickens before your eggs hatch baller, the east is stacked with Boston and Orlando, and you cant forget the Lakers, i dont think Cle. has it this year. But if so, atleast dumping Shaq means we keep our sanity.

statisback · Post #16 » by **statisback** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 7:51 pm

You think Shaq was traded because Nash asked for it? I dont understand why Nash has so much say in what the team should do and shouldnt do. Also, that just doesnt seem right. Nash and Shaq seemed to always get along last year. If anything it was more of an issue between Nash and Amare.

statisback · Post #17 » by **statisback** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 7:54 pm

Miklo wrote:Yeah Shaq just doesn't fit with a team who is hoping to average 110+ PPG. I know he did last year but that's not sustainable. Of course, we should have actually gotten value BACK from trading him, but you kind of have to go one way or another with run n' gun so he had to go.

Like someone already said, with Gentry it was back to SSOL or Shaq and that worked perfect. Despite not having your leading scorer (Amare), they still avg 117 ppg. Imagine what the ppg would be with a healthy Amare along with the same team from last year under Gentry.

Post #18 » by **Miklo** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:08 pm

balleramil wrote:Thank you Phoenix for bringing the Cavs a championship

If you think backing up LeBron with an aging, out of shape Shaq who hasn't even bothered to learn your plays yet means championship, you just might be disappointed when you face a Boston and Orlando team in the east who have added actual players to rosters that were already stronger than yours.

Fo-Real · Post #19 » by **Fo-Real** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:14 pm

Miklo wrote:
balleramil wrote:Thank you Phoenix for bringing the Cavs a championship

If you think backing up LeBron with an aging, out of shape Shaq who hasn't even bothered to learn your plays yet means championship, you just might be disappointed when you face a Boston and Orlando team in the east who have added actual players to rosters that were already stronger than yours.

Yeah... thats what Phoenix had in mind when we saw him up in that damn sky box, pointing at his big fat sausage finger (championship), and look how that turned out. The chemistry fit was just bad for us, we looked old and boaring last year. We tipically have outrun and outscored people (shootouts), with Shaq, that didnt happen.

YouTube · Post #20 » by **Kerrsed** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:39 pm

Fo-Real wrote:
Miklo wrote:
balleramil wrote:Thank you Phoenix for bringing the Cavs a championship

If you think backing up LeBron with an aging, out of shape Shaq who hasn't even bothered to learn your plays yet means championship, you just might be disappointed when you face a Boston and Orlando team in the east who have added actual players to rosters that were already stronger than yours.

Yeah... thats what Phoenix had in mind when we saw him up in that damn sky box, pointing at his big fat sausage finger (championship), and look how that turned out. The chemistry fit was just bad for us, we looked old and boaring last year. We tipically have outrun and outscored people (shootouts), with Porter, that didnt happen.

Fixed it for you!