Pat Burke & Channing Frye

impulsenine · Post #1 » by **impulsenine** » Sun Dec 6, 2009 5:42 pm

No, this isn't a "Let's get Shirley/Burke/KJ back" thread. It IS a "what-if" thread, though.

I just read :07 or Less. Yes, I took my time. I had to heal, damn it. And the few parts of the book about Burke the rest of the bench got me thinking about a few things.

First, and foremost, it makes me very happy to have Gentry as head coach because he is playing the bench. I also appreciate all the bio background I have on him, as the author talked about him almost as much as he talked about D'Antoni.

I also got to thinking about Pat Burke as a player, and what his role on that team could have been, because while reading the book, I've also been watching Channing Frye very closely. And I can't help but notice some things:

They're both three-point-shooting centers. They're both pretty quick (Burke could run pretty well for a center; his movement problems were mostly with sideways motion and such). And both of them play(ed) on a team without a "real" center. So it makes me wonder if, back when Amare was injured, they could have used him in a role much like Frye is occupying now, although not as a starter.

I'm not saying there weren't some differences, of course. Burke was about twice Frye's weight, was more foul-prone (although I think the refs had more to do with this than anything else; I'd never seen anyone get the shaft as bad as him), and generally less talented. But he could do a p'n'r, shoot a three, get some rebounds and if they'd let him, he could guard low-tier centers. And let's face it, we don't really put Channing onto superstar centers expecting much better results.

Just some brain-tickling for Sunday morning.

As an aside, can someone remind me what we got for Kurt Thomas' departure?

Post #2 » by **rsavaj** » Sun Dec 6, 2009 5:54 pm

impulsenine wrote:No, this isn't a "Let's get Shirley/Burke/KJ back" thread. It IS a "what-if" thread, though.

I just read :07 or Less. Yes, I took my time. I had to heal, damn it. And the few parts of the book about Burke the rest of the bench got me thinking about a few things.

First, and foremost, it makes me very happy to have Gentry as head coach because he is playing the bench. I also appreciate all the bio background I have on him, as the author talked about him almost as much as he talked about D'Antoni.

I also got to thinking about Pat Burke as a player, and what his role on that team could have been, because while reading the book, I've also been watching Channing Frye very closely. And I can't help but notice some things:

They're both three-point-shooting centers. They're both pretty quick (Burke could run pretty well for a center; his movement problems were mostly with sideways motion and such). And both of them play(ed) on a team without a "real" center. So it makes me wonder if, back when Amare was injured, they could have used him in a role much like Frye is occupying now, although not as a starter.

I'm not saying there weren't some differences, of course. Burke was about twice Frye's weight, was more foul-prone (although I think the refs had more to do with this than anything else; I'd never seen anyone get the shaft as bad as him), and generally less talented. But he could do a p'n'r, shoot a three, get some rebounds and if they'd let him, he could guard low-tier centers. And let's face it, we don't really put Channing onto superstar centers expecting much better results.

Just some brain-tickling for Sunday morning.

As an aside, can someone remind me what we got for Kurt Thomas' departure?

We got a conditional second round pick from Seattle for KT. CONDITIONAL.(I think.)

Two first rounders. Your best defensive post player.

One 2nd round pick.

WTF?!

Anyways, I agree with your thesis re: Burke/Frye. I always thought he was underused, and I never understood why we didn't use him to spread the floor. From what I remember of the book, sounds like injuries kind of limited his chances, and then Mike really never gave him a shot. The part where Burke was uber ticked about how we gave him standing Os for his threes, indicating that he had just become a sideshow attraction, made me kind of sad.

doc shivers · Post #3 » by **doc shivers** » Sun Dec 6, 2009 6:28 pm

well, the reason is because paddy burke's defense was absolutely horrid. plus we had boris at the time and he was killing it. then we got tim thomas and there was no chance for burke after that.

JohnVancouver · Post #4 » by **JohnVancouver** » Sun Dec 6, 2009 6:36 pm

Since it came up, where do you all think the KT deal sits in a list of Worst Deals Ever - disregarding the reasons for it, just in terms of this-for-that.

Has to be near the top.
That "conditional 2nd rounder" is like being beaten up, ass-raped and then having them steal your shoes on the way out.

BurningHeart · Post #5 » by **BurningHeart** » Sun Dec 6, 2009 6:52 pm

JohnVancouver wrote:Since it came up, where do you all think the KT deal sits in a list of Worst Deals Ever - disregarding the reasons for it, just in terms of this-for-that.

Has to be near the top.
That "conditional 2nd rounder" is like being beaten up, ass-raped and then having them steal your shoes on the way out.

That deal was the absolute beginning of the end.

Post #6 » by **ATTL** » Sun Dec 6, 2009 9:05 pm

It's comparable to the Gugliotta trade to the Jazz. KT was much better than Tom at the time of the trades, but we gave up the pick that is this year's Knicks pick along with the #16 in 2004(could have been Josh Smith).

We've had to endure some absolutely atrocious trades this past decade in the name of saving money.

Post #7 » by **TASTIC** » Mon Dec 7, 2009 12:49 am

I hated Burke

Post #8 » by **Miklo** » Mon Dec 7, 2009 12:53 am

Amaretotheline wrote:It's comparable to the Gugliotta trade to the Jazz. KT was much better than Tom at the time of the trades, but we gave up the pick that is this year's Knicks pick along with the #16 in 2004(could have been Josh Smith).

We've had to endure some absolutely atrocious trades this past decade in the name of saving money.

I almost forgot about that trade. WOW. Keon Clark was in some drugs and weapons crap already and would never see the court in the NBA again. That other guy was like autistic or some crap. And we had to give them picks AND googs for nothing

Post #9 » by **Miklo** » Mon Dec 7, 2009 12:55 am

TASTIC wrote:I hated Burke

Yeah me too. Skill wise Burke couldn't hold a candle to Frye..at all. I don't see it; Burke was a 12th man/injured list player who chucked up many more 3's than he made. TERRIBLE B-ball IQ on offense AND defense. I bet Chris Mihm could burn past him, and on offense he would take a 3 with 2 hands in his face.

Frank Lee · Post #10 » by **Frank Lee** » Mon Dec 7, 2009 1:06 am

TASTIC wrote:I hated Burke

amen, he was worthless.... and to think, they had a press conference to blow both he and B Grant up our skirts....

Both signings of no impact, (and actually, Grant was detrimental in the end) yet they were pawned off as significant contributors.... not unlike the 'surprising' Sean Marks. Gawd the syrup was thick.

Why are we talking about this ????? :upset:

whambamslam · Post #11 » by **whambamslam** » Mon Dec 7, 2009 5:15 am

Hmm I might dust off my copy of 7 seconds or less. I wonder how it will be now that only Nash and barbosa are left from that team. I just saw a commercial for Al McCoy came out with a book called "The real McCoy" Definetly going to pick me up a copy of that book.