OT Debate: Legalize or Prohibit MJ?

[Miklo]

So I watched a pretty good documentary this weekend, called "The Union: The Business Behind Getting High". It pressed the hot topic of whether marijuana should be legalized. This is a pretty big issue in some countries, and has a chance of eventually becoming part of some politicians' platforms (in fact, in the USA we had a candidate, Ron Paul, who ran for president this past election and supported the legalization of marijuana).

What are your thoughts? Basically there are different laws around the globe and it really boils down to whether marijuana should be prohibited (like in USA), just decriminalized (like Canada) or fully legalized (Amsterdam). Prohibited means the sale, possession or consumption is all illegal. Sale or even possession over a certain amount is often classified as a felony. Decriminalized can mean a lot of things, but it basically means there are still laws against marijuana. In many places this could mean that you are allowed to own and consume, but are not allowed to purchase or sell. Legalized means that all related acts are legal - BUT there is still the option of having regulations, such as a minimum age to purchase.

MODS, I looked through the TOS and don't think discussing this is a violation - but if it is please feel free to lock/delete.


My stance is this: I think that it should be legalized but regulated by age. I have three major reasons for taking this stance.

1) Marijuana is less harmful/dangerous to the body than alcohol or tobacco. It is also less physically addictive than alcohol or tobacco. Very recent studies have actually finally shown that marijuana does NOT cause cancer, while tobacco does. There are many deaths from alcohol or tobacco use annually, but NO recorded cases of death from marijuana over the last 20 years. Also, decision-making is not as impaired from consumption of marijuana as it is from alcohol.

2) Legalizing marijuana would present the opportunity to regulate the distribution, a regulation that cannot realistically be made in conjunction with prohibition. You can fight a war on drugs but the reality is that for teenagers, it is easier to get prohibited substances than legal regulated substances (ex. easier to get marijuana than alcohol). If you legalize marijuana, you can impose an age restriction - so that you can purchase it at stores but must present identification. This arguably eliminates the issue of marijuana possibly having cognitive development effects on young people.

3) Legalizing would also eliminate organized crime and dangerous situations that arise out of purchasing and distribution currently. If you legalize marijuana, all of a sudden dealers go out of business - and this is why regulating age limits works - because illegal distribution does not make economical sense anymore. As with any free market, the market price would plummet. Illegal dealers could not compete with government-imposed market restrictions - even if there was a pretty heavy tax on marijuana, it wouldn't come near the price that is currently paid underground. So this would eliminate all of the smuggling and dealer networks and would eliminate a lot of the actual crime that arises out of a prohibited marketplace.

Your thoughts?

[Frank Lee]

Write your congressman ( Have you ? ) Dont waste your time here. Debates and arguments amount to nothing unless your political representatives realize that their jobs could be in jeopardy if they do not support the will of the people.

Vote your conscious. Vote for candidates who truly represent you and your beliefs. I loathe the individuals who lectured me about wasting my vote because I voted for a candidate that had no chance to win. Kind of like being a Suns fan isnt it?

BTW, I agree with you, and all those who want my vote know that.

[Miklo]

Write your congressman ( Have you ? ) Dont waste your time here. Debates and arguments amount to nothing unless your political representatives realize that their jobs could be in jeopardy if they do not support the will of the people.

Vote your conscious. Vote for candidates who truly represent you and your beliefs. I loathe the individuals who lectured me about wasting my vote because I voted for a candidate that had no chance to win. Kind of like being a Suns fan isnt it?

BTW, I agree with you, and all those who want my vote know that.

I tend to be skeptical about our political system, so I haven't written my congressmen. I feel that with this issue, all parties go so far back with prohibition that they fear changing their stance, and also fear that taking this side makes them look like "drug supporters". I've written congressmen before on issues like immigration and I know I'm probably just a stubborn arse but I just don't feel like 1 or 100 people can make a difference. And yes, I still vote in elections, I'm not saying I'm against that.

To address the waste of time issue, I'd argue that many things here, such as "trade proposals" are a waste of time - I was more playing into the whole boredom thing and hoping that while I sit through a Monday at work, half-working, I may get some takers on a debate. But you are right; I can't exactly say that this is an efficient use of my time - or my company's

[Qwigglez]

I don't smoke so this doesn't effect me.

[Miklo]

I don't smoke so this doesn't effect me.

Fair enough, although I'm posing the question to anyone regardless of whether you smoke because some will still have a position on the issue - though if you don't smoke, I could see why you wouldn't really care. I will actually add a poll response for that.

[jolbin]

Fully legaluzed

[garrick]

I know potheads who just want to smoke pot and be bums, I guess alcoholics are the same thing so it's really tough for me to say if it should be legalized.

[rsavaj]

I don't smoke or drink, but if Alcohol and Tobacco are legalized, I don't see why marijuana isn't. Weird double standard going on....cigs completely eff you up(death) but they're still legal.

I also think that prostitution should be legalized. Safer for everyone involved and you get to regulate it.

[SideSwipe]

Should remain completely illegal. Find something better to do with your time than putting yourself and others at risk with marginal behavior. If we budge on MJ, Cocaine and EX and all sorts of other crap are sure to follow, slowly eroding the values that have made this country great and replacing them with people that are so bored with their lives they feel a need to fill their time with an artificial high, all while putting many other people at risk. Supporting MJ means supporting the violence that we see south of the border, and in countries around the world. The ills of drug addiction are well documented and far-reaching and often start with sotries of "I just wanted to experiement", or "I never thought I would become addicted" Educate yourselves and find a hobby and produce something of value that you can be proud of. That's my 2 cents.

[grumpysaddle]

I'm all for decriminalization. The prison system is overrun already with people that really deserve to be there. Marijuana is child's play. There's huge problems with complete legalization/government regulation, however. Think about pharmaceutical companies with the drugs they already have sole control over... With regulation, marijuana would also end up being controlled solely by one or more drug companies. Prices would inflate, it would be more difficult to get for everyone, including people that use it for medicinal purposes. As it is now, in a bunch of states, it is legal for certain people to grow their own plants, as long as it's only 2 plants (I believe). This doesn't produce enough to sell and make a bunch of money off of, but provides the patient with the marijuana they need for their illnesses for basically nothing. Also, people using marijuana for recreational purposes need to think before they start yelling out "legalize it". The legalization/regulation of marijuana would make recreational users even more 'criminal'. It becomes 'patient' vs. 'criminal'.

[Miklo]

This is good, we have one vote for each of the 5 so far

[GoSunsGo]

I agree with most of your points Miklo. I just believe it should be regulated to a degree with a minimum age requirement for example. I don't want like 12 year olds just blazing up, that's not really right. But like alcohol if you're a teenager/young adult and are curious, its a viable option with generally lower consequences. You smoke too much, you fall asleep and wake up hungry...not wake up hungover and spend half your day over a toilet vomiting from overindulgence. And im not saying ANYTHING should be abused, I mean used in a responsible manner. I'm not against drinking, im against morons getting too drunk, saying they're alright to go, then killing a family coming home from a vacation because they ran a red. If it were to be legalized I would expect laws similar to alcohol is what im saying...criminal charges for driving under the influence, etc.

It's not for everyone that's for sure, but neither is alcohol or tobacco as others have previously stated. Also, the normal sterotype of the lazy/don't do anything "pothead" isn't completely accurate. Some of those smokers do big things. I mean America's Declaration of Independence is written on hemp paper. Thomas Jefferson and George Washington grew it on their farms.

[Miklo]

^and that's the other ridiculous thing about the "prohibition" in America - hemp is prohibited too - even though industrial hemp can NOT be smoked so it should be separate - and lots of good, cheaper products can be made from it

[Sun Scorched]

My philosophy on all things contentious like this:

It's your own damn life and it should be your own damn decision.

BUT:

If your decision affects other people, then it becomes an issue.

READ:

If you want to smoke pot, fine. But it becomes an issue when (not if) people start doing it in public or around other people who have not made that same decision.

You want to drink? Fine. But it becomes and issue when it interferes with driving in a straight line or when you stop being the friend, wife/husband, or parent you need to be because of the addiction.

You want to kill someone? Fine. But it becomes an issue when someone else is involved... namely, the person you kill....

You get my point.

[aIvin adams]

one thign to consider is the use of marijuana as psychiatric 'self-medication.' a lot of habitual marijuana users consistently use the drug to regulate their moods and behavior.

i havent seen any studies, but anecdotally you see many cases where people quit smoking marijuana and have serious mental health issues immediately afterward (self-harm/suicide).

if there is a link like this, i would interpret it as a reason to support decriminalization. otherwise, too many people are 'off-the-grid' medicating themselves for serious problems. if marijuana were decriminalized, habitual users would have a greater opportunity to seek counseling or psychiatric support when they are trying to quit using it.


it's too easy to say that marijuana is 'not as harmful as alcohol.' i agree w the statement, but they are so different that it's like saying alcohol is less harmful than cigarettes, or vice versa. it's not a very informative statement

[Miklo]

one thign to consider is the use of marijuana as psychiatric 'self-medication.' a lot of habitual marijuana users consistently use the drug to regulate their moods and behavior.

i havent seen any studies, but anecdotally you see many cases where people quit smoking marijuana and have serious mental health issues immediately afterward (self-harm/suicide).

if there is a link like this, i would interpret it as a reason to support decriminalization. otherwise, too many people are 'off-the-grid' medicating themselves for serious problems. if marijuana were decriminalized, habitual users would have a greater opportunity to seek counseling or psychiatric support when they are trying to quit using it.

Very good point about psychiatric self-medication. I agree that quitting can cause psychological issues but I should be clear that beyond being irritable for a couple days, any other ongoing issues are issues that were already there exclusive of marijuana. I've known people who are diagnosed with issues like bipolar and use marijuana to stabilize their moods. These are the people who would have issues when they stop. It's tough to really use that fact to make a decision here though, because whether prohibited OR decriminalized/legalized, these people will get their hands on MJ. The same type of people turn to alcohol too. You can't really avoid that, just like you can't avoid the people who are schizophrenic or bipolar and refuse counseling and/or medication. I guess what I'm saying is you can't knock out self-medicators. More of them use alcohol than pot anyway. I do think that another option with legalization but regulation is perhaps to issue licenses for purchasing marijuana - and not give licenses to anyone diagnosed with a serious psychological issue, anyone who has gone to rehab for alcohol or drugs, etc.

it's too easy to say that marijuana is 'not as harmful as alcohol.' i agree w the statement, but they are so different that it's like saying alcohol is less harmful than cigarettes, or vice versa. it's not a very informative statement

I see your point but there are numbers to back it up. I do agree that you wouldn't really be able to say alcohol is worse than tobacco or vice versa because they are different. But I would argue that you could say that both MJ is better than tobacco and that MJ is better than alcohol, separately.

As far as tobacco goes, there have been studies that have finally come to fruition recently showing that tobacco does in fact lead to cancer, but marijuana use without the use of tobacco does NOT lead to cancer. There are a considerable amount of deaths due to cigarettes annually, but the number for marijuana is ZERO - also based on recent studies (I am getting these studies from the critically-acclaimed documentary I watched).

As for alcohol, the argument about number of deaths applies even more so here. There are a LOT of alcohol-related deaths - both from excessive consumption and from driving/doing other stupid crap under the influence. Alcohol also does damage to some internal organs - which MJ is proven not to do.

[RaisingArizona]

We would have a significantly higher state budget if they sold and regulated it. I think there are legit pros and cons to this argument but right now potheads are getting it through dealers; why not be supporting the state budget instead of drug dealers?

[Sun Scorched]

So i guess the big question is:

Would employers be able to deny jobs to those who do use marijuana?

You cannot discriminate on anything anymore, but if an employer does a drug screen and determines that between two employees one does marijuana and makes a decision accordingly... would that be discrimination?

[Kerrsed]

So far we are at 8 people pro MJ, 3 people anti MJ, and 2 that dont care.

Honestly, im a toker. I really dont think its as bad for your health as cigarettes, and doesnt leave you as impaired as alcohol.

The reason it will never be legalized (federally) is because the big pharmaceutical companys have bought too many people in the government and want to put a halt to it. MJ can help out people in so many different ways, and people would stop paying the outrageous prices that they currently are paying per month for their meds. Have problems sleeping?? Smoke a joint! stressed out???? Smoke a joint! migraine headaches???? Smoke a joint! MJ can aliveate so many of the problems that you see the pharmaceutical companys trying to do the same on all their commercials at 1/10 of the price.

Cali has the right idea and is now looking at ways for the state to tax MJ sales and if legalized, selling it only in Liquor stores unless you have a medical card then you can visit the dispensaries.

Our nation was built on MJ/Hemp. Where are the republicans that always bring up our forefathers when it comes to rights (bear arms/press/etc.)?? Many many MANY of our forefathers (including presidents) grew and smoked it.

[JohnVancouver]

I don't smoke so this doesn't effect me.

I haven't smoked marrijuana in 30 years - just never liked it. But I support it's legalization on grounds that it's a benign intoxicant and hardly needs to be outlawed.
In BC, my province, it's the largest industry and completely underground - stupid, stupid. All that taxable profit going uncollected