Pacquiao-Hatton set for May 2nd

[Blame Rasho]

Possibly 2 million buys.
That's not far off Mayweather-De La Hoya territory.

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/SPORT/05/04/manny.money/

Woah... that is more than I ever expected. I said maybe 850,000K at the most...

[WashWiz54]

Rich Rane - I'm boxing-ignorant, for the most part, so tell me: how likely is it that they meet a weight between 140 and 147?

It's an issue. It's not THE issue. Pacquiao looked good against DLH at welterweight (147 lbs) and I highly doubt Roach will let Arum let Pacquiao go above welterweight. However, Jr is a true welterweight and probably would not mind moving the fight up to junior middleweight at 154, but he probably won't got to Jr. welterweight at 140. The last time he did that was in 2005 either against Sharmba Mitchell or Arturo Gatti. The middle ground is 147, but Roach will probably only let that fight if he feels Pacquiao will bring his entire game to 147, which is a good chance. If he feels that he can't though, for Mayweather to come into a fight with possibly his biggest purse to date, he might have to meet Pacquiao halfway. THE issue is what KNICKS1970 said, which is the purse. There's background to it and the sides will probably begin at two sides of the planet on purse shares. There's egos to be in check. There's both boxers' legacies to be respected.

There could be one thing cemented though...with Mayweather just unretiring and if he doesn't have a convincing win against Marquez, Pacquiao's camp has more leverage on calling the shots on both weight and purse.

I understand what you're saying, but I disagree. Mayweather is going to call the shots or he isn't going to fight, or at least that is how I see it. He doesn't need the fight as much as Pacman does. As long as Mayweather wins against Marquwz (which he will) he will be seen as the top dog. So it isn't like he needs it for his legacy where Pacman will (and should) be seen as #2 until he beats Pretty Boy (which won't happen.)

And Floyd doesn't need the money like Tyson did. So I see Floyd having all the power and if Pacman and co. don't give it to him, he'll walk away, happily.

Long live Pretty Boy Floyd!

[Rich Rane]

I understand what you're saying, but I disagree. Mayweather is going to call the shots or he isn't going to fight, or at least that is how I see it. He doesn't need the fight as much as Pacman does. As long as Mayweather wins against Marquwz (which he will) he will be seen as the top dog. So it isn't like he needs it for his legacy where Pacman will (and should) be seen as #2 until he beats Pretty Boy (which won't happen.)

And Floyd doesn't need the money like Tyson did. So I see Floyd having all the power and if Pacman and co. don't give it to him, he'll walk away, happily.

Long live Pretty Boy Floyd!

Mayweather Jr.'s sole purpose of coming out of retirement was to gain back his pound-for-pound rankings (or so he says even though some reports having him lose millions of dollars to the IRS Joe Louis style). Pacquiao right now is at the top of the world on many boxing analysts' lists after giving De La Hoya a TKO and KOing Hatton in 2 rounds, much shorter than Mayweather Jr.'s stands. Even if Mayweather defeats Marquez, he will not be automatically ranked Number 2 on the pound-for-pound rankings, which is set up by The Ring. Mayweather comes in as an unranked boxer after his 17 month layoff and will not be given a free pass to the top 5, but should he beat Marquez, I could definitely see him in the 6-10 region. That's how The Ring works. You're ranking the best boxers of the sport without taking into account any opinions, but rather logic and fairness alone.

It's much different from their champions/contenders list for each division. If you beat a champion of a division, you're the champion, as Pacquiao displayed by taking Hatton's Jr. Welterweight title, despite fighting for the 1st time in that division. If you beat a contender, you usually take the higher contender's spot or possibly move up in the ranking if the you beat a lower contender.

Pacquiao is Number 1 on the pound-for-pound rankings and will continue to be Number 1 until he loses. He doesn't HAVE to fight Mayweather, but only to further guild his legacy. Mayweather, although very talented, right now is being criticized by some boxing analysts for "ducking" opponents and that the retirement was for contenders to age (Mosley), lose (Cotto and Margarito), or move up in weight (Paul Williams). Could he have beaten those guys? Sure, but those guys are much better than some of the guys in his resume. In addition, he's already getting flack for asking a fighter, although a highly skilled Juan Manuel Marquez, to move up a weight class and a half, who I feel would be killed after watching his last exciting match against Juan Diaz.

So let's summarize...Mayweather Jr. needs the fight to regain his pound-for-pound ranking. All Pacquiao gains from the fight is further upping his resume and legacy. He could retire without a fight with Mayweather and be considered in great company right now, better than Jr.'s company in history. And as far as money goes, Mayweather Jr. needs an opponent to sell PPVs. Pacquiao could sell 500,000 without breaking a sweat fighting Cotto or Mosley. Pacquiao's fight with DLH sold considerably lesser than DLH-Mayweather as many before the fight still proclaimed the match a joke.

[WashWiz54]

Sorry Rich Rane, I wasn't talking in the technical sense, but in the "barber-shop" sense. Right now I'd say most people have Mayweather as the better boxer and in a higher "legacy" class than Pacquiao. Thus bringing me to the conclusion that Pacquiao needs the fight more than Pretty Boy. Even though as your post describes (good post BTW) Pacquiao is ranked higher right now, he isn't seen as better.

Because of all this, I see Pacquiao needing it more if he wants to go down as an elite fighter. I'd say Pretty Boy Floyd is already in great company and with or without a fight against Pacman, while Pacman needs to beat Floyd (which won't happen) in order to go down as an elite.

And also a factor that I didn't include- Floyd has too much pride. He'll never accept a lesser purse against a lesser fighter. So I see Floyd walking away way before he gets punked by Pacman and co.

[tigerman]

http://fighthype.com/pages/content4875.html

Regardless of the feud or misunderstanding that Floyd Mayweather Jr. and his father, Floyd Mayweather Sr., may have, they seem pretty united on their stand against a man named Manny Pacquiao. The Mayweathers have repeatedly belittled the accomplishments of the boxing phenomenon from the Philippines. Mayweather Sr., who trained Pacquiao's most recent opponent Ricky Hatton, described Manny's boxing skills as "amateur" at best. In fact, he went so far as predicting a beating for Pacquiao at the hands of his fighter. Likewise, prior to his announced comeback to the ring scheduled for July, Floyd Jr. has time and time again stated that Pacquiao is nowhere close to his level as a boxer and is not worthy to be called the "Pound for Pound" best fighter in the world.

Pacquiao, a man of few words, responded last Saturday with his fists. By virtue of demolishing Ricky Hatton, who was the undisputed champion and undefeated in the 140 lb. division, Pacquiao again bested Mayweather Jr. inside the ring. Floyd faced the same Ricky Hatton at 147 lbs. in December of 2007 and won via TKO in the 10th round. Pacquiao, on the other hand, knocked Hatton out in just 2 rounds at Ricky's more natural weight of 140 lbs. Furthermore, in December of 2008, Manny Pacquiao soundly dominated and defeated Oscar De la Hoya via 9th round TKO despite having to jump three weight classes in order to face the Mexican-American legend. Floyd Jr., who previously faced De La Hoya in 2007, barely defeated the Golden Boy via split decision.

To say that Pacquiao will defeat Floyd Jr. based on those facts alone is ignorant. The point I am trying to make, however, is that if Floyd Jr. truly wants the world to believe that he, not Pacquiao, is the best in his class, then why has he ducked the best fighters in his division? Mayweather Jr. could do his reputation some service by actually emulating what Pacquiao has done throughout his career: face the biggest and best names possible. Pacquiao swept the legends of his former divisions and has continued to move up to find better competition. Floyd, on the other hand, has done more talking about his greatness than actually proving himself inside the ring.

Explain to me why Floyd Jr. has yet to face the likes of Miguel Cotto, Shane Mosley, Paul "The Punisher" Williams or even Antonio Margarito? Who has Floyd Jr. really beaten? And now he expects us all to be wowed by a comeback attempt against a much smaller man in Juan Manuel Marquez? Give me a break! For whatever reason Floyd Jr. is coming back to the ring (and we all know it's about the money), it's definitely not because he's been missed. During the time he's been away from the sport, Manny Pacquiao has given fans three spectacular victories. Not only that, but attention was justly given to other premier boxers in and around Mayweather's division, including Paul Williams and Shane Mosley.

For all the pageantry and hype that Floyd Jr. surrounds himself in, it's Pacquiao that has got the world buzzing about boxing once again. Just today, on ESPN's 1st and 10 show, the resident analysts talked about how Manny Pacquiao would defeat Floyd Jr. if they do indeed tangle in the boxing ring. To feature a boxer like Manny Pacquiao on that show is high praise considering that they primarily cover mainstream sporting events such as NBA, NFL and college basketball and football. On fight night itself, A-list celebrities such as Denzel Washington, P. Diddy, Mariah Carey and Jack Nicholson all came out to watch him. Jay-Z even requested access to be in the ring with Pacquiao's team. On top of that, former President Bill Clinton wished him luck before his fight. All of that because of a man who can barely speak English.

If anything, last Saturday told me why Manny Pacquiao is truly the best boxer on the planet. He reminded my why I first became a fan of the sport back when I was still a little kid. Outside the hype and all the shady sides of boxing, at the end of the day, it's all about what goes down in the ring. He may not be a great interview and he may lack the verbal promotional skills of an Ali or Roy Jones Jr., but his fists more than make up for that. Every time this guy fights, he provides action, drama and excitement. With that said, the Mayweathers can keep on disrespecting the little Filipino all they want, but "real recognize real!" Manny Pacquiao is the real deal!

[KNICKS1970]

Sorry Rich Rane, I wasn't talking in the technical sense, but in the "barber-shop" sense. Right now I'd say most people have Mayweather as the better boxer and in a higher "legacy" class than Pacquiao. Thus bringing me to the conclusion that Pacquiao needs the fight more than Pretty Boy. Even though as your post describes (good post BTW) Pacquiao is ranked higher right now, he isn't seen as better.

Because of all this, I see Pacquiao needing it more if he wants to go down as an elite fighter. I'd say Pretty Boy Floyd is already in great company and with or without a fight against Pacman, while Pacman needs to beat Floyd (which won't happen) in order to go down as an elite.

And also a factor that I didn't include- Floyd has too much pride. He'll never accept a lesser purse against a lesser fighter. So I see Floyd walking away way before he gets punked by Pacman and co.

It's actually the opposite. Mayweather may be considered the better boxer technically, it's Pacquiao that has the greater legacy. Pacquiao has 4 lineal world titles (he beat the man who beat the man who beat the man, etc.) and titles in six weight divisions. Mayweather has 3 lineal world titles and titles in five weight divisions. Pacquiao has the much better resume, going 5-1-1 against future Hall of Famers in his division (Barrera, Morales, Marquez) and moving up in weight to more impressive victories over De La Hoya and Hatton than Mayweathers.

Mayweather is undefeated with sublime skills, but he hasn't tested himself and come through the way Pacquiao has. Floyd, fairly or unfairly, has the reputation in boxing as a guy who cherry picks his opponents and ducks tougher competition. If he walks away from a Pacquiao fight, which could potentially be the biggest PPV fight ever, it WILL be seen as Mayweather ducking yet another top-tier opponent and will ruin his legacy.

[Rich Rane]

Sorry Rich Rane, I wasn't talking in the technical sense, but in the "barber-shop" sense. Right now I'd say most people have Mayweather as the better boxer and in a higher "legacy" class than Pacquiao. Thus bringing me to the conclusion that Pacquiao needs the fight more than Pretty Boy. Even though as your post describes (good post BTW) Pacquiao is ranked higher right now, he isn't seen as better.

Because of all this, I see Pacquiao needing it more if he wants to go down as an elite fighter. I'd say Pretty Boy Floyd is already in great company and with or without a fight against Pacman, while Pacman needs to beat Floyd (which won't happen) in order to go down as an elite.

I'm sorry, I don't mean to flat out just to tell you this, but this is just wrong. Pacquiao through his rise in weights has beaten several future Hall of Famers. Marco Antonio Barrera, Erik Morales, Juan Manuel Marquez, Oscar De La Hoya, and should he make it, Ricky Hatton. The guy went 7-1-1 5KO against them (8 Wins if you take one of the judge's scorecard mistake in the first Marquez fight) with avenging the one loss with two KO wins. He's more internationally known (especially now in Mexico and England), has captured a record-tying 6 titles in 6 divisions, and a record 4 linear titles (flyweight, featherweight, super featherweight, jr. welterweight).

Floyd's got his undefeated record. He's got De La Hoya, possibly Ricky Hatton, and Castillo in his resume when again he could've fought Mosley, Cotto, Paul Williams, or Margarito.

This is sort of like a Rocky Marciano to Muhammad Ali/Joe Louis argument. I'm not saying Pacquiao and Mayweather are in this company, but Rocky had the undefeated record, but as far as competition goes Ali and Louis have much better resumes.

Going back to "barbershop sense", you have the last opponent argument. Pacquiao KOed a guy in two rounds where it took Mayweather 10. You have Mayweather fighting Marquez, although a formidable opponent against Pacquiao back at 125 and 130, in a fight he can't win. Beat up Marquez, which I think will happen, the media will say Marquez had to move up a weight class and a half at 35 even though Mayweather took a 17-month layoff. He loses to Marquez...well, look at DLH now.

And also a factor that I didn't include- Floyd has too much pride. He'll never accept a lesser purse against a lesser fighter. So I see Floyd walking away way before he gets punked by Pacman and co.

With my last two posts, I think I've stated Mayweather needs Pacquiao more than he needs Mayweather now. I also stated before that this is a roadblock. Mayweather's camp will argue that he was the number 1 pound-for-pound fighter when he retired and beat up Marquez. Pacquiao's camp will argue that he's taken over as the face of boxing with him gone, is the current pound-for-pound king, and beat up Hatton. Sure, it would be easy if the purse was right down the middle, but like you said, Floyd's pride probably can't take it and Arum probably won't let that happen. In terms of money, neither will find anyone else even close to this bout. However, a Pacquiao PPV will sell more buys than a Mayweather PPV would.

[Ong_dynasty]

What do you guys think the contingency plans are for Pacquiao and Mayweather if a fight does not happen??!!?

Mayweather has all the usual suspects in Mosley, Cotto, Williams, etc...

who does Pacquiao have?!?!
Do you think he can actually go up and take on the likes of Cotto?!?! they seem to be too big for him??(Granted he did take on DLH)

[Rich Rane]

I don't think Mayweather has Williams anymore unless he goes up to 154. Then again, Williams is getting desperate looking for an opponent. Mayweather has his usual suspects as you stated above.

I think Pacquiao could max out at 147. Although he only fought De La Hoya, his skills looked fine. I think he has the same amount of contingency plans Mayweather has at Jr. Welterweight and Welterweight. However, I don't think Arum lets Pacquiao fight Margarito unless he really has become just a very strong chin with legal handwraps. I think he could take on Mosley. He's also got Nate Campbell and Edwin Valero should he decide to move up in weight. Arum also is talking about Cotto fighting Pacquiao at MSG at a similar catchweight to Mayweather-Marquez. Then there's the off chance Marquez beats Mayweather...

[WashWiz54]

Re: Rich Rane and KNICKS1970- Honestly, I'm new to boxing. I just really got into it about a year ago (give or take) so I'm obviously not as knowledgeable as you guys. Thanks for taking me down without KO'ing me . Personally, I still hold Mayweather is a higher regard than Pacman, and if they both called it quits right now- Mayweather is higher on my all-time list.

I don't know if it's demographics or what, but to the boys I talk boxing with, Mayweather is still king of the ring. I guess we're in the minority when I thought we were the majority, ah well. I still say Mayweather is the better fighter and if/when they meet he'll prove me right.

However Rich Rane, you brought up the time of fight for the Hatton beat down. Yes, Manny did do it in a much quicker fashion BUT you also have to look at fighting styles. Floyd isn't the type to come in with the one hitter quitter. He beats you down and finds the perfect opportunity to attack. He plays defense while Pacman goes all out on the attack. I think it is unfair to compare how quick they beat Hatton because of that fact.

[Rich Rane]

Re: Rich Rane and KNICKS1970- Honestly, I'm new to boxing. I just really got into it about a year ago (give or take) so I'm obviously not as knowledgeable as you guys. Thanks for taking me down without KO'ing me . Personally, I still hold Mayweather is a higher regard than Pacman, and if they both called it quits right now- Mayweather is higher on my all-time list.

I don't know if it's demographics or what, but to the boys I talk boxing with, Mayweather is still king of the ring. I guess we're in the minority when I thought we were the majority, ah well. I still say Mayweather is the better fighter and if/when they meet he'll prove me right.

It's cool man. I'm just stating my opinion and you stated yours. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. As long as everyone's willing to learn, everything will go on smoothly. It's not as if you're the only one who believes Mayweather is still the greatest fighter right now (and vice versa).

However Rich Rane, you brought up the time of fight for the Hatton beat down. Yes, Manny did do it in a much quicker fashion BUT you also have to look at fighting styles. Floyd isn't the type to come in with the one hitter quitter. He beats you down and finds the perfect opportunity to attack. He plays defense while Pacman goes all out on the attack. I think it is unfair to compare how quick they beat Hatton because of that fact.

Hey, you're absolutely right. I'm just bringing up that argument from something a casual boxing fan would think and say.

In the sweet science, styles do make fights. However, I don't think Pacquiao goes all out on the attack anymore. He hasn't since Marquez. Like Mayweather, Pacquiao's beginning to break his opponent down and decides whether to unleash in the early or later rounds. He's shown his knowledge of learning to read an opponent inside the ring.

All I know is that if these two men decide to battle, it's going to be a sight to see.

[Nemesis21]

there is a lot of people I'd like to see Mayweather fight, Cotto, Clottey, Berto or Pacquiao. I doubt he considers Mosley or Williams.

[Dieselbound&Down]

I completely agree that Mayweather needs Pac more than Pac needs Mayweather. Mayweather's resume just looks light considering the number of years he's been in the game and opportunities he surely had for top opponents. He likes to hype but he just hasn't seemingly been in many blockbuster fights or battles. DLH gave him a really good fight and the cards showed it. Part of me thinks Mayweather took that fight thinking DLH was really sliding and he new he could get a big payday and fight someone who hasn't been overly dangerous for several years. Pac just always seems to fight the biggest names and fights available when the first come available so I give him all the credit in the world.