UFC not likely for Fedor

[USA]

I read that a big reason why this fight might not happen is because if Fedor wins, Dana is demanding he stays in the UFC until he loses the belt. Dana doesn't want him to come, take the belt, then leave to create another interm belt situation.

[funkatron101]

I read that a big reason why this fight might not happen is because if Fedor wins, Dana is demanding he stays in the UFC until he loses the belt. Dana doesn't want him to come, take the belt, then leave to create another interm belt situation.

I can see why Fedor would refuse that, however the UFC is just protecting its brand. There should be a limit placed in the event that a fighter does win the belt. If nothing else, to use it as a bargaining tool to renegotiate a fighter's contract.

Say he has a 6 fight contract. In the event of becoming Champion, He will either need to successfully defend the belt at least three times, or if the original contract is fullfilled and he loses the belt, then a fighter can choose not to renew.

There really needs to be a fighter's union.

[CPT]

I doubt the UFC budges on their champions clause, and nor should they. I don't want to sound like a mini-Dana White, but what he says is true. If this contract is good enough for the likes of Chuck Liddell, GSP, Anderson Silva, Brock Lesnar, etc, etc, etc, Fedor shouldn't get special treatment.

Now if they can do a modified one where his pay kicks up significantly with every championship defense, that makes a little more sense. I wouldn't be surprised if they already do that anyway.

And I'm not too sure Fedor competes for the challenge. He does Sambo because he likes to represent his country in its national combat sport. Was he fighting Matt Lindland and Hong-Man Choi for a challenge when there were all of these other fights out there?

[Cammo101]

I doubt the UFC budges on their champions clause, and nor should they. I don't want to sound like a mini-Dana White, but what he says is true. If this contract is good enough for the likes of Chuck Liddell, GSP, Anderson Silva, Brock Lesnar, etc, etc, etc, Fedor shouldn't get special treatment.

Now if they can do a modified one where his pay kicks up significantly with every championship defense, that makes a little more sense. I wouldn't be surprised if they already do that anyway.

And I'm not too sure Fedor competes for the challenge. He does Sambo because he likes to represent his country in its national combat sport. Was he fighting Matt Lindland and Hong-Man Choi for a challenge when there were all of these other fights out there?

Exactly. I do not know what Fedor fights for, but it sure is not a challenge. He has fought more cans in the last 5 years than any other elite fighter in MMA.

[funkatron101]

But on the flip side, if Affliction had the same clause (as they declared him the champ) then Fedor would HAVE to fight until he lost, even if all of the best competition were all in the UFC. Basically there would be no chance to see him fight the UFC elite. Surely the fans would be up in arms about that, right?

Lindland and Choi were unorthodox challenges. At the time Lindland was on a decent hot streak, had a split decision loss to Rampage, which could have gone either way. I forget what he weighed, but it seemed pretty close to Fedor. Keep in mind, if Fedor was as diligent in his diet and weight cutting as most other MMA fighters, he would be a light-heavyweight, or hell, even middleweight. I didn't give Lindland much of a chance, but I thought he could surprise us all.

Choi, was a challenge merely for his size.

But your point does make me revise what I said earlier. He does fight for the fans. The ones in Japan. That's why this fight, and his exhibition fight with Aoki happened.

[Cammo101]

But on the flip side, if Affliction had the same clause (as they declared him the champ) then Fedor would HAVE to fight until he lost, even if all of the best competition were all in the UFC. Basically there would be no chance to see him fight the UFC elite. Surely the fans would be up in arms about that, right?

Lindland and Choi were unorthodox challenges. At the time Lindland was on a decent hot streak, had a split decision loss to Rampage, which could have gone either way. I forget what he weighed, but it seemed pretty close to Fedor. Keep in mind, if Fedor was as diligent in his diet and weight cutting as most other MMA fighters, he would be a light-heavyweight, or hell, even middleweight. I didn't give Lindland much of a chance, but I thought he could surprise us all.

Choi, was a challenge merely for his size.

But your point does make me revise what I said earlier. He does fight for the fans. The ones in Japan. That's why this fight, and his exhibition fight with Aoki happened.

He is not the Affliction champ, he is the crappy WAMMA champ. Affliction will be bankrupt long before they have real champions. The UFC has always been committed to continuing to bring in challenges for their fighters. They always found guys to fight Hughes and Liddell when they were on big time runs.

Choi was a complete can. Lindland was a decent 185 pounder. To call either of those fights a challenge is laughable.

I think Fedor is an absolute stud, but he and the UFC together just makes a ton of sense.

[funkatron101]

I would argue that Riggs and Royce weren't really challenges to Hughes.

Affliction's longevity doesn't really matter to my point. They were just an example. It could be Dream, K-1, Strikeforce. If any one of those organizations signed Fedor and wouldn't release him until he lost, the fans would be livid.

I'm curious as to what Anderson Silva will do once his contract expires. He says he is going to retire. If he retires as champ, then comes back 1 year later for another organization, I would assume it would be a breech of contract.

[CPT]

I would argue that Riggs and Royce weren't really challenges to Hughes.

Affliction's longevity doesn't really matter to my point. They were just an example. It could be Dream, K-1, Strikeforce. If any one of those organizations signed Fedor and wouldn't release him until he lost, the fans would be livid.

I'm curious as to what Anderson Silva will do once his contract expires. He says he is going to retire. If he retires as champ, then comes back 1 year later for another organization, I would assume it would be a breech of contract.

Don't know how Hughes came into this, but I don't remember who was out there at WW at the time. It wasn't really like this situation.

And yeah, fans would be upset because a B-level org signed the best fighter in the world to an exclusive contract. Dream and Strikeforce have HW divisions that are 2-3 fighters deep without much possibility of adding more. Most of the top fighters in the world want to be in the UFC, especially if Fedor is there. I have more faith in the UFC bringing in new challengers than Strikeforce, and especially Dream, whose idea of a new challenge would probably be Jose Canseco or Bob Sapp.

The Anderson Silva thing confuses me. They keep talking like his contract is going to expire, but as long as he is the MW champ, I don't think it will. However, if he retires, I think he can sit out a year and do whatever he wants, but really, is that a realistic scenario? Give up a year of fighting at the tail end of your prime in the UFC to sign with Strikeforce? This is only happening if he really wants to try out boxing.

[Cammo101]

The UFC went out and got Royce Gracie and Frank Trigg to fight Hughes when he was buzz-sawing his division. Two of the biggest fights possible in the division at the time.

You can say in retrospect that Gracie had no chance, but people did not think that at the time. Comparing Gracie vs. Hughes to Fedor and a freak show or a guy half his weight is a joke. Gracie vs. Hughes was a HUGE fight at the time.

[IronChef]

And I'm not too sure Fedor competes for the challenge. He does Sambo because he likes to represent his country in its national combat sport. Was he fighting Matt Lindland and Hong-Man Choi for a challenge when there were all of these other fights out there?

What are all the other fights that were out there?

[CPT]

And I'm not too sure Fedor competes for the challenge. He does Sambo because he likes to represent his country in its national combat sport. Was he fighting Matt Lindland and Hong-Man Choi for a challenge when there were all of these other fights out there?

What are all the other fights that were out there?

The fights he's had since (Sylvia, Arlovski, Barnett), the fight with Randy, a fight with Werdum when his stock was a bit higher, and some fights that would have seemed more interesting back then, like Gonzaga and Kongo. The last two guys are pretty weak I know, but they pose more of a threat than Matt Lindland and HMC (though I actually think Kongo might lose to HMC).

Now he's done those 3 fights, but there are plenty more that have popped up, and mostly in the UFC. Brock Lesnar is the obvious one, but now there's also Carwin, Velasquez, and Mir, while Randy is still around, and I'm sure Cro Cop and Nog would be down for rematches.

Now obviously Fedor would be the huge favourite in all of these fights, and would probably win them all. But you only get credit for actually doing it.

[IronChef]

He fought Sylvia, and Arlovski when they left the UFC. Barnett is the biggest challenge of anyone and he's fighting him now, outside the UFC. When Fedor fought Lindland, Lindland was on a 9-1 streak with the 1 loss being a split decision to Rampage Jackson, he most certainly wasn't a can.

The only ones he hasn't done is Randy, and fights that have popped up in the last year (Brock, Carwin, Velasquez).

If you look at Fedor's fight record since 2002-

Zuluzinho- Undefeated when he fought Fedor, atleast 15-0.
Nog- 3 times
Cro Cop
Coleman- twice
Randleman
Fujita
Goodridge
Nagata
Hunt
Lindland
Choi
Arlovski
Sylvia
Ogawa- undefeated when he fought Fedor 7-0
Kohsaka- Owner of the one 'victory' over Fedor
Herring

Really, not a whole lot of 'cans' there.

[CPT]

He fought Sylvia, and Arlovski when they left the UFC. Barnett is the biggest challenge of anyone and he's fighting him now, outside the UFC. When Fedor fought Lindland, Lindland was on a 9-1 streak with the 1 loss being a split decision to Rampage Jackson, he most certainly wasn't a can.

The only ones he hasn't done is Randy, and fights that have popped up in the last year (Brock, Carwin, Velasquez).

If you look at Fedor's fight record since 2002-

Zuluzinho- Undefeated when he fought Fedor, atleast 15-0.
Nog- 3 times
Cro Cop
Coleman- twice
Randleman
Fujita
Goodridge
Nagata
Hunt
Lindland
Choi
Arlovski
Sylvia
Ogawa- undefeated when he fought Fedor 7-0
Kohsaka- Owner of the one 'victory' over Fedor
Herring

Really, not a whole lot of 'cans' there.

I don't have much problem with Fedor's fight record in Pride, that's not the issue. Pride made him what he is, and he helped make Pride what it was.

If you think a decent MW is a credible opponent for the top HW in the world, that's your call. I personally don't.

HMC is a can. A big can, but a can nonetheless.

Affliction came along and got Fedor some great fights. I definitely have no problem with his level of competition there. But if they go away, where does he go next? His track record as a free agent isn't too good.

If he can keep getting top fights outside of the UFC, good for him.

If he stays out of the UFC and goes back to Japan to fight god knows who, then I think it will be clear how much he cares about the challenge.

[funkatron101]

The overall point I was trying to make is that I do think there is enough competition outside of the UFC to sustain him until he retires. He fights about 2 times a year. I can easily see him retiring in two to three years.

Fedor's only true incentive to fight in the UFC is to face Brock. I don't think one big fight is enough for him to compromise.

[IronChef]

The overall point I was trying to make is that I do think there is enough competition outside of the UFC to sustain him until he retires. He fights about 2 times a year. I can easily see him retiring in two to three years.

Fedor's only true incentive to fight in the UFC is to face Brock. I don't think one big fight is enough for him to compromise.

Bingo.

I don't get the sentiment that Fedor doesn't care about challenging himself unless he leaves his current organization, quits Sambo, and joins the UFC to fight Lesnar. If it was a one fight deal, Fedor probably signs. But, if he beats Brock, he has to stay in the UFC until he loses or retires. Just because that contract is fine for Liddell and Brock, has nothing to do with whether Fedor should sign. Not to mention that none of these people had Fedor's stature when they joined the UFC.

[Shaazzam]

The UFC went out and got Royce Gracie and Frank Trigg to fight Hughes when he was buzz-sawing his division. Two of the biggest fights possible in the division at the time.

You can say in retrospect that Gracie had no chance, but people did not think that at the time. Comparing Gracie vs. Hughes to Fedor and a freak show or a guy half his weight is a joke. Gracie vs. Hughes was a HUGE fight at the time.

Really? I find that shocking. I'm not sure how anyone thought Gracie had a chance in that one. And I have mad love for Royce, but he had no shot.

[funkatron101]

The UFC went out and got Royce Gracie and Frank Trigg to fight Hughes when he was buzz-sawing his division. Two of the biggest fights possible in the division at the time.

You can say in retrospect that Gracie had no chance, but people did not think that at the time. Comparing Gracie vs. Hughes to Fedor and a freak show or a guy half his weight is a joke. Gracie vs. Hughes was a HUGE fight at the time.

Really? I find that shocking. I'm not sure how anyone thought Gracie had a chance in that one. And I have mad love for Royce, but he had no shot.

Anyone who did think Royce was going to win, either got caught up in the UFC hype machine, or failed to realize that in the UFC, Royce fought against one-dimensional fighters who had no clue how to defend BJJ.

The UFC did a great job of hyping that fight, but it was an enormous mismatch from the moment it was announced.

[Cammo101]

The UFC went out and got Royce Gracie and Frank Trigg to fight Hughes when he was buzz-sawing his division. Two of the biggest fights possible in the division at the time.

You can say in retrospect that Gracie had no chance, but people did not think that at the time. Comparing Gracie vs. Hughes to Fedor and a freak show or a guy half his weight is a joke. Gracie vs. Hughes was a HUGE fight at the time.

Really? I find that shocking. I'm not sure how anyone thought Gracie had a chance in that one. And I have mad love for Royce, but he had no shot.

In retrospect, it seems dumb to have ever looked past Hughes like that. But, at the time it was considered a tough fight to gauge. Keep in mind Royce had never really lost a fight in the UFC and his mystique was crazy.

I won a decent amount of money betting on Hughes that night, but a lot of people didn't.

[CPT]

The overall point I was trying to make is that I do think there is enough competition outside of the UFC to sustain him until he retires. He fights about 2 times a year. I can easily see him retiring in two to three years.

Fedor's only true incentive to fight in the UFC is to face Brock. I don't think one big fight is enough for him to compromise.

Bingo.

I don't get the sentiment that Fedor doesn't care about challenging himself unless he leaves his current organization, quits Sambo, and joins the UFC to fight Lesnar. If it was a one fight deal, Fedor probably signs. But, if he beats Brock, he has to stay in the UFC until he loses or retires. Just because that contract is fine for Liddell and Brock, has nothing to do with whether Fedor should sign. Not to mention that none of these people had Fedor's stature when they joined the UFC.

I think his current deal is up after Affliction 3, unless you are talking about his deal with M-1.

Lorenzo Fertitta has recently said that they could be more flexible about the sambo competitions, but not about the exclusivity of the contract.

Something I've failed to mention is that a huge part of this problem is Fedor's management. I mean Fedor has to take some responsibility for the people who represent him, but when you hear things like how he's never met with Dana White or the Fertittas, something is up.

The UFC definitely isn't without blame here either, but I understand their position more than Fedor's. I think they should be extra motivated to get Fedor though, if only to get the monkey off their back, so to speak.