UFC 105: Hendo Vs Nate, Free on Spike

[Cammo101]

Vera has no one to blame for the loss but himself. He just does not have that killer instinct and is too comfortable grappling in the clinch and bottom position doing nothing, not scoring any points. Its the same reason why he lost the Jardine fight. Vera had Couture rocked from his kicks, and did nothing but let him fall to the ground like an old man breaking his hip and then let him get back slowly up. How about some GNP? How about some Ju-Jitsu you are apparently a black belt of?

Don't try to act like this is some highway robbery. I could definitely have seen Vera getting the decision, but understand the argument for Couture in the third as well. Other then the second round, this was a very close fight. If it wasnt, then the ref wouldnt have tried to break it up so often.

LOL ar Vera not being the one with killer instinct. Vera was the one who floored Randy and Vera was the one who mounted Randy and was ground and pounding him. Vera had the same amount of takedowns as Randy and did A LOT more damage.

Randy did no damage and had one takedown. He was the one with no killer instinct. And that coming from a huge Randy fan. Vera got hosed.

[2009NBAChamps]

Vera has no one to blame for the loss but himself. He just does not have that killer instinct and is too comfortable grappling in the clinch and bottom position doing nothing, not scoring any points. Its the same reason why he lost the Jardine fight. Vera had Couture rocked from his kicks, and did nothing but let him fall to the ground like an old man breaking his hip and then let him get back slowly up. How about some GNP? How about some Ju-Jitsu you are apparently a black belt of?

Don't try to act like this is some highway robbery. I could definitely have seen Vera getting the decision, but understand the argument for Couture in the third as well. Other then the second round, this was a very close fight. If it wasnt, then the ref wouldnt have tried to break it up so often.

I don't get this at all. People always say the fighter has no one to blame but himself for not finishing but that is just (Please Use More Appropriate Word) logic. A win is a win no matter how you go about it and in any sport there are multiple ways of doing so. Winning a decision is just as valid as a tko or sub.

Vera by our definitions as to what qualifies for the point system by all means won the 2nd and 3rd rounds decisively. And he shouldn't definitely not be blamed. No doubt Randy dictated his pace for the fight, but that was the only thing he scored points on. Damage, takedowns, striking and aggressiveness (this one is a mild win for Vera) were in Brandon's favour.

Either the judges need to come out with an explanation of how they themselves are scoring fights, or the system altogether has to be changed.

In fact I think this should be made more public, and the UFC should do this to alleviate any mysteries fans may have over the scoring system, so that we can all without a doubt say whether the judges made a good or bad call.

Regardless, the fact remains that all 3 judges scoring the 3rd round in favour of Couture is ridiculous. And this coupled with the Machida/Shogun fiasco is taking away so much credibility for the sport and UFC combined.

[Cammo101]

Randy did zero to win this fight. You can not win a fight by simply pressing a guy into a cage, especially if the other guy knocks you down and mounts you in different rounds.

[Spartan13]

Allow me to clarify:

Vera had no killer instinct BECAUSE he floored Randy, but did basically nothing after that and simply let him up. He is just a passive fighter, kind of like Anderson Silva minus the killer instinct.

Vera has no one to blame but himself BECAUSE he lost the decision. If you leave it in the hands of the judges, you fall at the mercy of their decision. You may disagree with the decision and think it was unfair, but that doesn't change what the decision was. If your NBA team loses a game, blaming it on a bad call late in the game does nothing to change the outcome, but maybe working on winning by more then 2 points, does. It is kind of a dumb saying, but it's about accountability, your job is to either KO Randy, submit Randy, or convince the judges that you beat Randy. Vera did none of those things, even though I personally think he had the opportunity to do so several times in the fight but wasn't aggressive enough, so the loss is nobodies fault but his own.

But I do agree that they should present what the judges are looking for more clearly, because there are too many differing opinions from fans for what are unanimous decisions by the judges. The reason I thought Randy would win is because I thought the fight would go exactly how it did, and that would give Randy the decision. This is because, contrary to what Cammo thinks should win a fight (and I personally agree with him), the history of decisions has gone many times in the past to the guy who just put their weight on their opponent but did no real damage. Just ask Jake Shields, hes basically made a career out of it.

[Cammo101]

Shields has made a career of out wrestling and subbing guys. What Randy did was spend most of each round being unable to take someone down. Apples and oranges.

[Spartan13]

Most of Shields biggest wins have come from decisions as well. Maybe Randy didn't take Vera down as often as Shields takes guys down in his BS decision victories...MAYBE. But in all honesty how different is sitting on a guy from top position and doing nothing vs pushing a guy against the cage in a clinch and doing nothing? This isnt a wrestling match, why is that take down so much more valuable in MMA vs controlling a clinch against the cage?

All I'm saying is guys winning fights from pushing their weight on someone is nothing new, only commentators bitching about them in the post-fight interviews are.

Everything you've said here tells me you would disagree with the decision in this fight as well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZ6YNAUgZeE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQm5Q5hk ... re=related

[Cammo101]

Spartan, I get your point. Vera knocked Randy down and took him down and mounted him. If neither did anything and Randy just clinched better, I would get him winning. But, Vera clearly did enough to win both the 2nd and 3rd rounds. Vera may not have been able to finish him, but it was because he wanted to fight and Randy wanted to stall.

[Shaazzam]

Yeah it was on the ESPN live feed aswell over here in the UK.

I have to say I was shocked by it, it does need to be said, but that's got to have some kind of ramifications surely? Maybe not in public but I expect Rogan to get a stern sit down with Dana White.

Maybe White will want to have a stern sit down with the Athletic commissions and talk to them about not ruining the credibility of his sport.

[Cammo101]

This is the 3rd terrible decision in the last month or so. Shogun, Hioki, and now Vera have all been jobbed.

[76ers76ers]

they have fights on spike???

[damo[23]]

they have fights on spike???

Free cards and recently the prelims on the PPV events are on spike.

[Spartan13]

If there is three things I have picked up on judges in MMA its:

1) They value combinations over one powerful strike. Probably because combinations usually finish fights more often with TKO's.

2) The higher the strike is on the body, the more they value it. Probably because knocking a guy on the chin finishes fights way more often then a low kick, unless you are Bas Rutten or Mirko Cro cop.

3) If neither fighter looks like they are doing any significant in striking, then they usually give it to the guy who won the wrestling. This is because while I think they hate to judge grappling and clinching (which is why the refs usually break it up), if no fighter does any significant GNP or striking, at least they can say well that fighter wins the "ring control" argument.

Ultimately for the Couture fight, the judges just decided that Vera did not win the striking significantly enough to make up for Randy bullying him against the cage. If it went the other way, I would understand that as well. But Randy also got some shots in the 3rd, and controlled the majority of that round, so even though Vera did more damage in it, the judges just thought it wasn't significant enough.

Again I don't wanna bring up the Machida fight, but Machida landed more combinations to the head of Rua, and in a really close match that was the difference in the first few rounds.

Im just saying this isnt some conspiracy of recent bad judging, fights have been scored like this in the past all the time. Even look at the ultimate fighter, Wes Shivers scored how many knockdowns? But that wasn't enough to even give him one round, and you are complaining about Vera not winning from knockdowns when he got what, 1 or 2? I don't necessarily agree with the way fights are judged, and recently there have been a lot of fights that look bad because one guy scored more damage but still losses, i'm just saying this is nothing new, the Shields-Okami fight was just one example, and that was how many years ago?

The only thing they should do is clarify the judging method with the fans so they understand it more and make the refs more universal in their judging, and also maybe try to tweak 10 point must system so they could give ties to rounds and maybe make the last round worth 2 points or something to that effect.

[fedorwho]

I did not see it as a close fight in round 2 or 3. In round 2, Vera dropped Randy while all Randy did was lean on Vera and not be able to take him down. In round 3, Vera took down and mounted Randy, while all Randy could do was lean on him and not take him down.

I am a huge Randy fan and could care less about Vera, but those last 2 rounds really were not that close.

ring control is worth too much on the cards, that is clear... they have to remember that this is an mma fight, not a greco roman wrestling match!

gsp vs penn 1
is a good example

[cowboyronnie]

worst main event ever? worse than even Silva vs Leites. I don't see the robbery, FWIW, but wasn't paying that close of attention.

Hardy vs Swick was awesome. But how Dan gets GSP, I'm not sure. It's such a cut and dry GSP victory. Hardy vs Alves is a **** fight.