BJ wants GSP again, Rampage wants to box Dana White...

Nemesis21 · Post #1 » by **Nemesis21** » Sat Dec 19, 2009 7:49 pm

http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles/7/ ... c-18-21659

I don't think BJ should fight GSP again, BJ's conditioning at 170 is not good at all. I'd watch Rampage and Dana box.

Cammo101 · Post #2 » by **Cammo101** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 8:12 am

Just say no to both these ideas.

Post #3 » by **damo[23]** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 8:41 am

Is it me but Rampage becoming like a mini-Tito quite quickly?

I am not sure about BJ vs GSP 3. Since his loss he has instigated his big training regime, so I don't think its fair to say he has no gas tank at 170, I do think he'll be a bit better off now with the new S&Conditioning coaching he gets.

But that said, he still would be a WW coming in under weight, which these days really is just not doable, back in the day when he was the champ, people weren't cutting these huge numbers to get into the division.

Also, he's had 1 championship fight off the back of no WW fight's, to do it again I don't think is really fair to the WW division, despite how it is struggling for contenders right now for GSP. BJ vs GSP 3 would be the largest WW Championship fight they could do right now, but it just isn't the right one.

I'd like to see BJ Penn get to the stage the likes of GSP and Silva are at right now, which is a ton of defenses and cleaning out the division, before he talks of moving up weight again. He needs zero challenge in the LW division, while they aren't exactly stellar contenders, there are the likes of Edgar, Maynard and Griffon to talk about fighting before he should think about ditching the LW division again for the WW division (like how he made Ken Flo wait an eternity after winning his shot).

/ramble over.

SpReEfOrAlL · Post #4 » by **SpReEfOrAlL** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 7:59 pm

I want BJ to stay at LW. But seriously. Who is the guy gonna fight? No matter how much the UFC hypes these fighters up, no one is convincing me that said fighters have anything for BJ. Just silly.

cowboyronnie · Post #5 » by **cowboyronnie** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:41 am

Absolutely no one currently in the UFC deserves BJ at LW. And very few people outside of it. Diego was top 3-4 in the world, if not #2, and got destroyed.

Gray Maynard with a title shot is ridiculous. A UD of Jim Miller does not get you BJ.

I really want to see Penn's skills a third time against GSP. Best test for either fighter, IMO.

That's a lot of talk of "getting BJ".

Cammo101 · Post #6 » by **Cammo101** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:45 am

cowboyronnie wrote:Absolutely no one currently in the UFC deserves BJ at LW. And very few people outside of it. Diego was top 3-4 in the world, if not #2, and got destroyed.

Gray Maynard with a title shot is ridiculous. A UD of Jim Miller does not get you BJ.

I really want to see Penn's skills a third time against GSP. Best test for either fighter, IMO.

That's a lot of talk of "getting BJ".

I think Maynard has done enough to deserve a title shot. He is 6-0 in the UFC with wins over Huerta, Miller, Clementi, and Frank Edgar. That is a lot more than Diego had done at 155.

I don't think Gray will win, but I think he has earned a shot. And, in theory, he has a way to beat BJ because of his elite wrestling.

Test of Wills · Post #7 » by **Test of Wills** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 5:26 am

I actually want to see BJ vs. Rush III ...

Penn is another level. No matter how much guys like Maynard, Miller, Frankie are hyped up by the UFC none of them will give Penn any fits IMHO. He is just that damn good. He made Ken-Flo look real bad, he demolished Diego. Those are 2 of the better LW's to look weak in the ring with BJ.

Who's next?

Cammo101 · Post #8 » by **Cammo101** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 5:50 am

I love BJ Penn, but what makes anyone think a BJ vs. GSP fight now would be any different from the last? GSP is simply too big and too good a wrestler.

jTF2 · Post #9 » by **jTF2** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:54 pm

I hope Dana doesn't YET AGAIN sign a blank check for BJ. He got rushed past good WWs on his way to defeats at the hands of Hughes and GSP. Both losses via conditioning and superiority respectively. Obviously BJ is a different fighter now and imo would handle Hughes with ease. But I highly doubt he can handle the likes of Kos, Alves as he does LWs.

If BJ is to get another crack at GSP, it HAS to be through a systematic series of wins over top WWs before he gets GSP.

IMO, a pure dominance win over alves/kos/fitch/Johnson or 2 'wins' over top WWs should get him a crack at GSP. Nothing more, nothing less.

Post #10 » by **Shaazzam** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:17 pm

jTF2 wrote:I hope Dana doesn't YET AGAIN sign a blank check for BJ. He got rushed past good WWs on his way to defeats at the hands of Hughes and GSP. Both losses via conditioning and superiority respectively. Obviously BJ is a different fighter now and imo would handle Hughes with ease. But I highly doubt he can handle the likes of Kos, Alves as he does LWs.

If BJ is to get another crack at GSP, it HAS to be through a systematic series of wins over top WWs before he gets GSP.

IMO, a pure dominance win over alves/kos/fitch/Johnson or 2 'wins' over top WWs should get him a crack at GSP. Nothing more, nothing less.

I agree with this. And my reasoning is because if he fights GSP right away and loses again, we are back to "What now?" for BJ.

By having him fight a couple guys in that weight class it prolongs the interest. Because I, like others, don't see him getting touched at 155 by anyone.

cowboyronnie · Post #11 » by **cowboyronnie** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:34 pm

jTF2 wrote:
IMO, a pure dominance win over alves/kos/fitch/Johnson or 2 'wins' over top WWs should get him a crack at GSP. Nothing more, nothing less.

fair enough

El Hardee · Post #12 » by **El Hardee** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 6:04 pm

I like the sound of BJ/GSP 3 aswell, I think BJ would come into the fight bigger and stronger the next time around. He seems really dedicated to his conditioning these days. Maynard does not belong in the cage with BJ, but I believe BJ's camp brought in Maynard to help train BJ for his last fight with Matt Hughes a few years ago so Maynard have a little edge there, but not enough to beat BJ.

funkatron101 · Post #13 » by **funkatron101** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 7:13 pm

Have BJ fight Koscheck first.

The Flying Gent · Post #14 » by **The Flying Gent** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:52 pm

Cammo101 wrote:I love BJ Penn, but what makes anyone think a BJ vs. GSP fight now would be any different from the last? GSP is simply too big and too good a wrestler.

Now that's an argument i have problems with personally. BJ has fought way above WW against an elite opponent and was relativity successful. I mean, we're talking about a guy who successfully took down the friggen' UFC LHW champion, who weighted at least 220 during their fight. I doubt a 190 pound guy is simply too much for him.

And since GSP's size advantage in mostly in thickness (GSP is only an inch taller), it's not like it played a huge role in the stand up aspect of the match up either, which is an area GSP won in both fights as well.

I honestly do not think size is any sort of determining factor in this match up.

jTF2 · Post #15 » by **jTF2** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 1:22 am

^GSP lost the standup in their first fight.

The Flying Gent · Post #16 » by **The Flying Gent** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 5:59 am

jTF2 wrote:^GSP lost the standup in their first fight.

Not according to fight metric.

http://www.fightmetric.com/fights/GSP-Penn.html

jTF2 · Post #17 » by **jTF2** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 3:13 pm

Penn landed more damaging shots while GSP went for more jabs and leg kicks. He still won the striking in my books, stats or no stats.

The Flying Gent · Post #18 » by **The Flying Gent** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:47 pm

Fair enough. I'd like to watch the fight again to reform my opinion on more solid ground anyway.

At any rate, it was very close in the striking department (probably a blow out if you count ground striking), and we'd probably be able to agree that GSP is a more effective striker nowadays (if only because he's managed to integrate it more seamlessly into MMA, but i think his base striking has improved as well) then he was during the first fight, so it's almost a moot point i think. Meaning that my original point that size and wrestling are not the sole factors that allow GSP to dominate Penn still stands.

He's just the better, more complete fighter imo.

Cammo101 · Post #19 » by **Cammo101** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 5:37 pm

The Flying Gent wrote:Fair enough. I'd like to watch the fight again to reform my opinion on more solid ground anyway.

At any rate, it was very close in the striking department (probably a blow out if you count ground striking), and we'd probably be able to agree that GSP is a more effective striker nowadays (if only because he's managed to integrate it more seamlessly into MMA, but i think his base striking has improved as well) then he was during the first fight, so it's almost a moot point i think. Meaning that my original point that size and wrestling are not the sole factors that allow GSP to dominate Penn still stands.

He's just the better, more complete fighter imo.

I completely disagree. Penn is a more complete, well rounded fighter than GSP. He has better striking, better subs and an out of this world takedown defense.

GSP is great not because he is well rounded, but because his combination of size and wrestling makes him a mini Lesnar.

GSP's size and wrestling is the reason BJ can't beat him, not his well roundedness.

cowboyronnie · Post #20 » by **cowboyronnie** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:46 pm

Nah, man, it's his fluidity and ability to change levels. Dudes say it time after time that it's the transition between striking and takedowns that leave GSP ahead of the rest. He's not bullrushing anyone ala Lesnar. And he dances around guys on the ground. He doesn't just hold them in place.