UFC 112 *SPOILER* THREAD (real time, Abu Dhabi time)

[CPT]

BJ landed 63 strikes to Edgar's 58 according to FightMetric. Considering he spent 90% of his time standing there trying to counter punch, I have no problem with Edgar getting the decision.. also the fact that he took him down and was clearly the more aggressive of the two. Edgar had no intention of standing in the middle of the cage so BJ wasn't really controlling the octagon, if anything Edgar had him where he wanted him. Edgar attempted 13 takedowns, BJ 0.

Regardless of the decision, no one is to blame for the loss but BJ. He stood basically still all fight and threw nothing but counter punches the entire time and didn't even bother trying to take him down or clinch. He deserved to lose imo, more should be expected of someone that talented.

Edit: Lol apparently Silva landed 62 strikes in his fight, BJ 63 in his. Silva's the one being chewed up and spat out, maybe he should've paced himself while boring everyone to death like BJ did.

You're bringing up the FightMetric stats to support the decision for Edgar? Really?

For starters, it's completely disingenous to give the total strikes for the fight (which Penn still had more of), when the fight is scored round by round. If the fight was scored as a whole, I would probably agree that Edgar won, because the round he won was more decisive than the ones Penn won, and if the fight were to keep going, it looked like Edgar would have either finished him or won every round from then on out. However, that's not the way it was scored, and under the 10 point must system, BJ Penn should have won a close fight (or at worst lost a 48-47 decision).

Round 1:
Penn: 18
Edgar: 10
Penn was also much more accurate. 10-9 Penn, easily.

Round 2:
Penn: 17
Edgar: 6
Again, Penn was more accurate. 10-9 Penn, again.

Round 3:
Penn: 11
Edgar: 10
This was probably the swing round, or at least it should have been, since it was so close. The two judges that had it 50-45 and 49-46 were out to lunch. FightMetric scored it 10-9 Penn, but I could see someone giving it to Edgar.

Round 4:
Penn: 13
Edgar: 14
If judges had balls, this (and possibly round 3) would have been 10-10. They don't, and Edgar probably looked better, so I don't have much problem with giving the round to him.

Round 5:
Penn: 13
Edgar: 23
This was the only round where Edgar clearly outstruck Penn, and this was the only round he had a real takedown (he didn't really complete the first one), so this was obviously 10-9 Edgar. I think, similar to the Machida-Shogun fight, this round being last left the impression that Edgar was doing better throughout the fight than he really was.

[blkout]

You're bringing up the FightMetric stats to support the decision for Edgar? Really?

I'm just bringing it up to show that it wasn't the BJ Penn domination some people have made it out to be.

Round 1:
Penn: 18
Edgar: 10
Penn was also much more accurate. 10-9 Penn, easily.

Round 2:
Penn: 17
Edgar: 6
Again, Penn was more accurate. 10-9 Penn, again.

Round 3:
Penn: 11
Edgar: 10
This was probably the swing round, or at least it should have been, since it was so close. The two judges that had it 50-45 and 49-46 were out to lunch. FightMetric scored it 10-9 Penn, but I could see someone giving it to Edgar.

Round 4:
Penn: 13
Edgar: 14
If judges had balls, this (and possibly round 3) would have been 10-10. They don't, and Edgar probably looked better, so I don't have much problem with giving the round to him.

Round 5:
Penn: 13
Edgar: 23
This was the only round where Edgar clearly outstruck Penn, and this was the only round he had a real takedown (he didn't really complete the first one), so this was obviously 10-9 Edgar. I think, similar to the Machida-Shogun fight, this round being last left the impression that Edgar was doing better throughout the fight than he really was.

... so you don't disagree with the decision?

[funkatron101]

I want to see all this supposed **** talk that Maia was dishing out. The guy is a straight up class act and the only crap that they spew out is for the fight promos, which they are forced to do. MANY fighters have admitted that they were influenced and nudged to speak violently for the sake of advertising.

This isn't Mir stalking Brock crazy talk here. Maia has a reputation for being quite respectful.

He said something towards the end of the countdown show about breaking Silva's arm. It wasn't disrespectful or anything, it was sort of a "if I catch it I might break it" sort of comment. Have no idea how Silva went from bowing and carrying on to saying he had disrespected him.

Besides, wouldn't the best way to get him back be to either knock him out quickly or try to beat him at his own game? Silva's camp were raving about what a great black belt he is.

Yeah, that's standard fight hype. I'm a Silva fan, but he is full of crap. He got mad because Maia wasn't fighting his type of fight. Certainly not as bad as the stuff Silva was saying to Maia during the fight.

It certainly makes for a boring fight, but I can understand the reasoning behind Maia and Leites trying to force Silva to engage first. You are right, if Silva was that mad, he should have ended it in brutal fashion, but he can't unless his opponent strikes first.

Even look at his fight with Chonan. Ryo would jab then step away before Silva could react. Chonan rarely threw any combos and it was pissing Silva off. Silva didn't know what to do. Even without that sub, Chonan wins because he nullified Silva's game pretty effectively.

Lol, found this on Sherdog

[Cammo101]

CPT, you are conviently leaving out the fact that Edgar scored takedowns in 2 of those rounds.

[High 5]

CPT, you are conviently leaving out the fact that Edgar scored takedowns in 2 of those rounds.

You can't score a takedown when Penn was on the ground for maybe an entire second.

[Cammo101]

CPT, you are conviently leaving out the fact that Edgar scored takedowns in 2 of those rounds.

You can't score a takedown when Penn was on the ground for maybe an entire second.

I agree with you in theory, but the general rule of thumb in MMA is that all takedowns count. I guarantee those judges scored them. If for no other reason than shock value.

I agree that takedowns should not score as much as they do without follow up, but in todays MMA they clearly do.

[CPT]

CPT, you are conviently leaving out the fact that Edgar scored takedowns in 2 of those rounds.

What? I'm really not. Read it again.

I mentioned the one takedown he did score, and that was in the round he would have won on strikes anyway. Should he win some other rounds for that?

If you're talking about the "takedown" in round 2, where he didn't even get dominant position, let alone keep it...come on. That's supposed to swing a round in which Penn oustruck him 17-6?

BLKOUT, I haven't seen anyone, anywhere, claim BJ Penn dominated the fight. Some people have claimed that about Edgar, saying things like "he completely outworked Penn" and "he picked BJ apart." Two judges obviously felt that way, as they scored it 50-45, and 49-46, which is completely ridiculous. Most people feel it should have been a close decision either way (48-47), and a lot of people feel like it should have gone to Penn, since he won two decisive rounds to Edgar's one. Too many people were fooled by Edgar's bouncing around and looking busy, while BJ Penn was doing more actual fighting.

[Cammo101]

IMO Edgar won the fight slightly. I was a little surprised he won the fight on the judges cards, because it looked like a textbook example of a fighter not doing enough to dethrone the champ.

I also think it appeared Edgar was doing better than the numbers show, mainly because he was moving circles around BJ.

[REDDzone]

BLKOUT, I haven't seen anyone, anywhere, claim BJ Penn dominated the fight.

Ditto.

[El Hardee]

Concerning the takedown argument if you go by BJJ and SG rules a takedown is not awarded till the guy attempting the TD acheives some top control, even if it means falling into someones gaurd which is different than pulling. If a TD was attempted and a scramble insued and they both end up standing a TD should not be granted. I would only award Edgar 1 TD if I was judging. I wish MMA would adopt some BJJ rules, then we wouldnt see so much emphasis on the "guy on top is winning" rule.

[Cammo101]

Concerning the takedown argument if you go by BJJ and SG rules a takedown is not awarded till the guy attempting the TD acheives some top control, even if it means falling into someones gaurd which is different than pulling. If a TD was attempted and a scramble insued and they both end up standing a TD should not be granted. I would only award Edgar 1 TD if I was judging. I wish MMA would adopt some BJJ rules, then we wouldnt see so much emphasis on the "guy on top is winning" rule.

Again, I agree with this in theory, but we all know that most MMA judges are scoring takedowns the minute they hit the ground. I personally would not really score the takedowns for much, but most MMA judges will.

I also think the takedowns helped Edgar score points because the judges were likely as surprised as we were at how easy he took BJ down.

[CPT]

Concerning the takedown argument if you go by BJJ and SG rules a takedown is not awarded till the guy attempting the TD acheives some top control, even if it means falling into someones gaurd which is different than pulling. If a TD was attempted and a scramble insued and they both end up standing a TD should not be granted. I would only award Edgar 1 TD if I was judging. I wish MMA would adopt some BJJ rules, then we wouldnt see so much emphasis on the "guy on top is winning" rule.

Again, I agree with this in theory, but we all know that most MMA judges are scoring takedowns the minute they hit the ground. I personally would not really score the takedowns for much, but most MMA judges will.

I also think the takedowns helped Edgar score points because the judges were likely as surprised as we were at how easy he took BJ down.

One takedown (in the 5th round) in thirteen attempts = easily taking BJ down?

[cowboyronnie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J08zroW9d0U

BJ believes there will be a re-match - immediately, I assume?
sup sup

I think an immediate re-match is good. **** Grey Maynard.

I don't know if Grey would want to face anyone other than BJ for the title anyways.

[Posey H8er]

Gray should fight Florian and the winner of that fight gets a titleshot.

[cowboyronnie]

agreed. absolutely.

[CPT]

I'd be happy with either of the following scenarios.

Penn vs. Edgar rematch, Florian vs. Maynard #1 contender

Edgar vs. Florian, BJ vs. Maynard #1 contender

Nobody really wants to see Edgar vs. Maynard. Maynard has no momentum, having not fought since the Diaz fight, in which a win actually moved him down in title contention. A defined #1 contender fight is the best he should get right now.

I think it would make sense to do Edgar vs. Florian in Boston, and then maybe give Penn his title shot in Hawaii (Florian could easily have the title by then). But that could be paying too much attention to geography.

[funkatron101]

I'd be happy with either of the following scenarios.

Penn vs. Edgar rematch, Florian vs. Maynard #1 contender

Edgar vs. Florian, BJ vs. Maynard #1 contender

Nobody really wants to see Edgar vs. Maynard. Maynard has no momentum, having not fought since the Diaz fight, in which a win actually moved him down in title contention. A defined #1 contender fight is the best he should get right now.

I think it would make sense to do Edgar vs. Florian in Boston, and then maybe give Penn his title shot in Hawaii (Florian could easily have the title by then). But that could be paying too much attention to geography.

I prefer the second option. Florian deserves another shot, and this creates two fights that haven't been seen before.