skflives wrote:
Then your problem is your definition of beast because someone who fights like a beast isn't getting dropped 2x in his fights. If it weren't for the fact that we now know Margarito was cheating he fights like a beast. He walked through all of Cotto best shots and kept on coming and eventually beat Cotto into submission. He left Sebastian Lujan with his ear dangling by a piece of skin. That's a beast. Mike Tyson in his prime so scared the F out his opponents that they had already lost b4 they entered the ring. He fought like a beast. Ortiz did not fight like a beast. He fought hard and in my opinion fought stupid.
Berto hasn't fought much in the way of quality opposition and that is part of why he's an underachiever. He's being babied and has struggled against opposition. It was time for him to sink or swim against a higher caliber of welterweight but instead he was given his 3rd junior welterweight in his past 6 fights (the other two being Steve Forbes and Juan Urango). Now that he lost to this former Junior Welterweight in a bout where he got dropped twice to go along with a controversial win against Luis Collazo that he didn't rematch and a couple of uninspired performances his career is stuck in limbo. He's got talent and potential but he's no draw and he doesn't have a belt to use as a negotiating point. His only hope to quickly get back in the picture was to get a rematch with Ortiz but with Ortiz taking the big money against Floyd he's going to have to go back to either beat up a bunch of stiffs to look intimidating or he's going to have to face really tough opponents with no name recognition and for less money to try to get hardcore fans behind him. The first way is basically what he has been doing for much of his career and so it won't help him grow as a fighter and I don't realistically know how well he'd do with the second option.
He got dropped twice. If even one of those shots landed more solid than it did we wouldn't even be talking about Ortiz.
A stupid plan is a stupid plan but only looks brilliant if it works. Ortiz got dropped twice. Twice. That's not brilliant. That's risky and it almost bit him on the a$$ twice.
then according to your definition there are hardly any beasts in boxing. is maidana a beast? nope he got knocked down 3 times in a fight even though he got up each time and kept fighting. tim bradley? nope, kendall holt put him on his ass even though he got back up both times and won the fight.
prime morales wasnt a beast. neither was duran.
sht, even your own examples contradict your own definition. margarito's been KTFO. what kind of beast gets KTFO in one of his fights? tyson got KTFO in his prime, some beast huh?
are we really arguing the beastliness of a fighter?? what kind of fckery is this?
how else was ortiz supposed to fight berto? fight a technical boxing match like he did vs peterson and campbell? he looked awful in those fights. that is not his game. he's a much better fighter when fighting aggressively. he took the fight to berto and made him work every single minute of each round. that's what you're supposed to vs fighters with stamina problems, not dance around and pot shot from the outside while minimizing action. not everyone can fight like floyd, nor should they try to. you fight long enough and you face power punchers, chances are you will get knocked down or hurt multiple times. a stupid plan would be to try to do something that he's not good at. victor is good at coming forward and setting up his power shots with his feet. that's exactly what he did and he ended up taking the fight out of berto.
as for berto, like i said, how could he be an underachiever prior to the ortiz fight if he didnt even fight anybody? his biggest mistake was winning that interim belt against that nobody. winning that belt (unjustifiably) propelled him to the top of the division despite not earning that status. because he was an HBO fighter and was supposedly at the top of his division, he thought that he was in line for a big money fight vs one of the big 2, but obviously that was not the case. no money fighter wanted to fight him (except for mosley, but that fell through cuz of the earthquakes) because he was dangerous, but is/was a terrible draw. the only fighters who were willing to fight him were bad draws themselves, fighters who HBO would not accept or who berto's camp did not want (like mike jones and selcuk aydin for example). he was a victim of his own quick "success"...which really wasnt success in the first place. an underachiever is someone who fails along the way. berto had not failed until the ortiz fight. he was unchallenged, but not an underachiever.
