Dwindling Interest

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Re: Dwindling Interest 

Post#21 » by SDM » Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:12 pm

REDDzone wrote:
SDM wrote:I used to rip on boxing here, but only because it's fun to troll people and my RealGM shtick is half troll/half serious. I'd like it more if it didn't suffer from the same sports entertainment BS that's starting to plague MMA. Maybe now that I'm training UFC I'll have a better understanding of all the unique disciplines.


Are you really traning ufc brah, or is that statement coming from the troll half of your persona? :)


I've been training PRIDE for a while, but UFC seemed to have more gyms.
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Re: Dwindling Interest 

Post#22 » by REDDzone » Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:20 pm

You should start training WSOF if that doesn't work out for you.
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Re: Dwindling Interest 

Post#23 » by Bernman » Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:31 pm

I can understand people who just follow UFC having their interest dwindle at this point. Zuffa has a virtual monopoly when it comes to attention and to some degree have the strong majority of established talent to warrant that. That's led them to stop driving to appease fans. Their motivations are making money and world domination. They feel like they've achieved those things through the names they've put on their tombstone and having no rivaling competition anymore to cut significantly into their market share. That means they feel they can now serve the fans and fighters just about anything and they have to accept it because there is little for alternatives.

For fighters, they receive long, incentive-laden, low base salary entry level deals until they've established themselves as a draw for quite a while (my favorite fighter, Anthony Pettis, still only gets 10/10). Also, they get a huge cut taken out of their individual sponsorship revenue (aren't they and their managers working to make those deals themselves and don't they own their own bodies?).

For the fans, we receive diluted cards carried by one fight, and a mockery is made of titles, but when we complain about it, instead of catering to the consumers they lash out at them because they feel like they have leverage ala against the fighters, and their rise up against foes has made them delusional egomaniacs.

This is where Bellator comes in for me. I can personally enjoy Bellator right now because I like where their going and have always been able to enjoy prospects in sports. I like seeing athletes and human beings realize their potential, as well as seeing them when they are young, hungry, and at their physical peaks. I don't need them to have fully proven they are elite already, or be told they are by an aggressive salesman, to care.

If you're the type of fan who needs to have more assurance that you are watching the best athletes going in to get invested, I don't view that as a negative. How much time and money you want to or have to spend on entertainment is a personal thing, as well as how much variety you require.

Regardless if you are the type of fan mentioned above, that's where I think the #2 promotion, Bellator, making a move to Spike in a couple months, will probably be huge for the overall interest in MMA. If nothing else having a competing organization will drive the UFC to be better and make decisions to appease fans. While for others it will increase the amount of interesting match-ups available to us. And there is the outside chance at least that Bellator could overtake Zuffa, and if they do, be more considerate of fans and fighters when they do. We do know what the current #1 organization is providing to the sport of MMA when they have the power.

Note: Quickly responding to those who take umbrage with fans only following MMA and not other combat sports.... I used to watch boxing semi regularly from about the late 90's to early 00's until I discovered MMA. Well, I was aware of it before, but not exposed to much, and what little I was I didn't understand. Once I started understanding MMA, boxing lost all appeal to me. I haven't watched a single boxing match since 2004 when Casamayor got robbed against Corrales (one of the many times Casamayor got robbed in his prime). It wasn't so much that at that point I thought boxing was corrupt (although many people in it are), but it only took one moment of disgust to exhaust my interest from the little I had at that point. From that point on my response was always why doesn't the guy just take him down and work for subs if he's losing on the feet, or throw some kicks, knees, and elbows in for variety. There are many more facets to MMA. And I don't at heart like guys beating each other's brains in. The extent to which it happens in MMA is a means to an end for me and that's why I'm a big advocate of earlier than later stoppages.
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Re: Dwindling Interest 

Post#24 » by Shaazzam » Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:45 pm

My only issue with Bellator and other non-UFC things is that I usually watch it on PVR. And my ADD usually rears it's ugly head and I forward through a lot of the fluff, and even things like the fighter intros, and when fights get a little dull. Which is weird, because when watching a live card, I eat that **** up. But I guess I do the same thing with hoops too.

So it's all on me for being a spaz.
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Re: Dwindling Interest 

Post#25 » by Gold Chain » Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:47 pm

REDDzone wrote:You should start training WSOF if that doesn't work out for you.


or, you know, you can always train Invicta. :kiss
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Re: Dwindling Interest 

Post#26 » by Bernman » Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:54 pm

Shaazzam wrote:My only issue with Bellator and other non-UFC things is that I usually watch it on PVR. And my ADD usually rears it's ugly head and I forward through a lot of the fluff, and even things like the fighter intros, and when fights get a little dull. Which is weird, because when watching a live card, I eat that **** up. But I guess I do the same thing with hoops too.

So it's all on me for being a spaz.


I do that when I watch it live even, and certainly when accessing it later. That's one thing I like about the Bellator prelims. Usually it's just wall-to-wall fights, with some interesting prospects, and the occasional barnburner. I'm an MMA fan. I don't need a background on a fighter outside the cage/ring, or production value, to get me more hyped. I'm hyped enough for the fights going in. So the rest just bores me. If I enjoyed watching a fighter I can find out a little about his personality from the internet later on to increase my investment.
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Re: Dwindling Interest 

Post#27 » by SDM » Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:54 pm

Gold Chain wrote:
REDDzone wrote:You should start training WSOF if that doesn't work out for you.


or, you know, you can always train Invicta. :kiss


Tried it once, got slaughtered by a 95lb Korean girl, it was emasculating.
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Re: Dwindling Interest 

Post#28 » by Shaazzam » Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:08 pm

Bernman wrote:
Shaazzam wrote:My only issue with Bellator and other non-UFC things is that I usually watch it on PVR. And my ADD usually rears it's ugly head and I forward through a lot of the fluff, and even things like the fighter intros, and when fights get a little dull. Which is weird, because when watching a live card, I eat that **** up. But I guess I do the same thing with hoops too.

So it's all on me for being a spaz.


I do that when I watch it live even, and certainly when accessing it later. That's one thing I like about the Bellator prelims. Usually it's just wall-to-wall fights, with some interesting prospects, and the occasional barnburner. I'm an MMA fan. I don't need a background on a fighter outside the cage/ring, or production value, to get me more hyped. I'm hyped enough for the fights going in. So the rest just bores me. If I enjoyed watching a fighter I can find out a little about his personality from the internet later on to increase my investment.

LOL yeah, but you have the ability to remember who the hell it was you watched fight. I not so smrt. They just become nameless fighters for me I guess. :(

Although the funny things is, compared to this board I have zero memory for fighters, but when chatting with my buddies who dig MMA, I'm a freaking dictionary.
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Re: Dwindling Interest 

Post#29 » by SDM » Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:09 pm

Bernman wrote:
Shaazzam wrote:My only issue with Bellator and other non-UFC things is that I usually watch it on PVR. And my ADD usually rears it's ugly head and I forward through a lot of the fluff, and even things like the fighter intros, and when fights get a little dull. Which is weird, because when watching a live card, I eat that **** up. But I guess I do the same thing with hoops too.

So it's all on me for being a spaz.


I do that when I watch it live even, and certainly when accessing it later. That's one thing I like about the Bellator prelims. Usually it's just wall-to-wall fights, with some interesting prospects, and the occasional barnburner. I'm an MMA fan. I don't need a background on a fighter outside the cage/ring, or production value, to get me more hyped. I'm hyped enough for the fights going in. So the rest just bores me. If I enjoyed watching a fighter I can find out a little about his personality from the internet later on to increase my investment.


Yeah, I love a lot of things about Bellator... especially their prelims. I do think the move to Spike would help, but what I think would help most is dropping the tourney format. There's too much inactivity for the champs and you need to get them fights to keep busy, resulting in paper champion syndrome which seriously erodes interest in them, at least for me. Like, CMP fought four times in 2011 during the tourney + his fight against Wiuff. Nothing in the past 13 months as he waited for the season to play out, plus the fight with Vegh still isn't announced. I find it hard to get excited about champs that lose in other organizations. So, while I'd seriously love for them to present themselves as viable competition to UFC, they seem to be mucking up the basics.
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Re: Dwindling Interest 

Post#30 » by REDDzone » Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:18 pm

Yea, that's mostly my issue with bellator, they gotta figure out something to get their champs fights. I feel like I see Eric Prindle and the black guy from Indiana (blanking) every other card, but never see Chandler or Askren or Conrad.
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Re: Dwindling Interest 

Post#31 » by Bernman » Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:35 pm

The black guy from Indiana? lol I don't even know who you are talking about. You mean Rogers or Straus? They're from Ohio.

SDM wrote:but what I think would help most is dropping the tourney format. There's too much inactivity for the champs and you need to get them fights to keep busy, resulting in paper champion syndrome which seriously erodes interest in them, at least for me. Like, CMP fought four times in 2011 during the tourney + his fight against Wiuff. Nothing in the past 13 months as he waited for the season to play out, plus the fight with Vegh still isn't announced. I find it hard to get excited about champs that lose in other organizations. So, while I'd seriously love for them to present themselves as viable competition to UFC, they seem to be mucking up the basics.


I think of that as a detail, because championship matches comprise a small percent of cards regardless, but maybe that's just me projecting what's important onto others.

I don't think they need to drop the tourney format. In fact now Zuffa is making them a stronger case for it with their ridiculous match-making for title fights recently like Sonnen-Jones, Belfort-Jones, and Bonnar-Andy. They are trying to contrive hype and interest. Bellator's model at least vastly increases the chances you've earned the opportunity, relative to organization. I know the Prindle-Konrad match-up was a farce, but that was for arguably their worst division, and one which they had a lot of bad luck in for that tourney, losing out on Santos and Ivanov out of the cage.

They need to start making necessary serious tweaks to make it work. And I think they must realize this given the sense they show in other areas. They could just be so stubborn at this point because of their philosophy that they won't spend money until they make it, and it's tough to get a return investment on big fights right now. Eddie made 100K base for beating Aoki, which was almost a dollar per person who watched on MTV2. They scored 103K viewers. A degree of that was a mix-up in the guide, and their choice to simulcast on other networks, but I still don't see how they near got their money's worth from that fight or card (they stacked it w/ tourney fights too). Once they get on Spike maybe they loosen the butt cheeks and let rematch exception spill out, make sure they run a tourney per weight class per season, and start working out a co-pro with another major organization like OneFC if they get a little bigger. If a Bellator champ occasionally lost to a OneFC champ, would he lose much luster to you? Chuck lost to Rampage in Pride and remained a big draw as UFC champ. Man City is about to be bounced from the Champions' League group stage and they are still going to be held in high regard as reigning champ of arguably the biggest league in the world.
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Re: Dwindling Interest 

Post#32 » by REDDzone » Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:43 pm

Straus sounds right...Indiana, Ohio...lol Midwest.
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Re: Dwindling Interest 

Post#33 » by NZB2323 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 7:13 pm

How excited are you guys for WSOF? I'm very excited, but Torres is my favorite BW, and my last boss used to represent Andrei Arlovski for endorsements.
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Re: Dwindling Interest 

Post#34 » by High 5 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:38 pm

The first fight I followed as a casual MMA fan was Chuck/Rampage II and my interest rose steadily from there. Like a lot of people my interest peaked around 2009/2010. Now there are just too many events featuring too many boring/inconsequential fights, while a lot of my favorites spend too much time sidelined for one reason or another. Sonnen getting the most undeserved title shot ever and talks of a female division are the most recent steps in the wrong direction.

I still enjoy the sport and many of the fighters, but I'm a lot more selective about the fights I watch.
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Re: Dwindling Interest 

Post#35 » by REDDzone » Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:49 pm

High 5 wrote:I still enjoy the sport and many of the fighters, but I'm a lot more selective about the fights I watch.


I feel like its impossible not to be these days.
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Re: Dwindling Interest 

Post#36 » by SDM » Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:57 pm

I still watch about 85% of UFC fights, 60% of Bellator fights, plus parts of the odd Sherdog-streamed regional/Asian MMA.

With the bigger names WYSIWYG, plus dominant champs have made divisions stale and the challengers retread-ish, but thankfully, there's always a good fight or two on every undercard and I don't want to miss them. I'm more likely to miss a Jon Jones fight than a Nick Denis fight. Girlfriends pose problems, however. For Saturday UFC cards that I've really been looking forward to, I'll make a huge meal usually during the prelims, with my girlfriend helping me so we can spend time together and I'm not glued to the TV. Then, we'll eat and she'll go on the laptop or out with friends or whatever for the maincard, and there's no drama.
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Re: Dwindling Interest 

Post#37 » by High 5 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:02 pm

REDDzone wrote:
High 5 wrote:I still enjoy the sport and many of the fighters, but I'm a lot more selective about the fights I watch.


I feel like its impossible not to be these days.


Well I'm talking about even some of the events I'm able to watch I choose to watch other things and maybe just catch the main event. College football > MMA.
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Re: Dwindling Interest 

Post#38 » by REDDzone » Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:26 pm

I watch almost every fight on the ufc ppv quality events. If I watch at the bar I miss the first one or two fights on fx because it takes time to drive there. I don't usually bother too much with fx or fuel or tuf prelims, don't recognize a lot of names anymore, although I usually try to catch the top fight or three at least. The facebook ones I'll watch, but don't have fuel and they aren't usually worth streaming. The gf usually doesn't give me issues. We go out to eat once a week regardless, so if there is a ppv we usually just make it that night, she doesn't mind sitting and chatting and watching fights, I'm lucky there.

I watch all the good bellator events, although the Friday thing hinders it. I would watch at least some of every event if not for that. Hopefully the spike moves brings about a more favorable night. I definitely watch much less regional stuff than I used to. If the timing is perfect I'll watch some, maybe a tachi palace fight or something.
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Re: Dwindling Interest 

Post#39 » by SDM » Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:36 pm

REDDzone wrote:I'm lucky there.


No kidding.
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Re: Dwindling Interest 

Post#40 » by CPT » Thu Nov 1, 2012 2:22 am

Oversaturation leading to watered down cards that turn to **** with an injury or two is the biggest problem for me.

I'm no less interested in MMA (I spend a lot of time on this and other sites) and I still enjoy watching the fights when they are on, but the enjoyment I get from anticipating a big fight or big event is all but gone at this point. And that's always been one of my favourite things about being an MMA fan. I'm still scared to get too excited about GSP/Condit because of this feeling hanging over the event that it's going to fall apart any minute.

I haven't watched an episode of the latest season of TUF, and until recently I was one of the people who was still really into the show. Probably has more to do with the Friday timeslot than anything else, but I found time to watch the Cruz/Faber series, so I don't know.

The demise of MMA in Japan has probably hurt my interest in non-UFC MMA. I should probably fill that void with Bellator, which I know is a better product, but I just find it hard to get excited for an event every week. The scheduling is not great either. And it's not even really a Friday night thing. I'd be perfectly happy to watch Friday night, but with the time difference I have to find time Saturday to watch it before I find out the results, which just doesn't happen. A mid-week timeslot would help out a lot.

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