Bellator 145: Pitbull/Straus 3, Brooks/Held, Nov. 6

[REDDzone]

I honestly have no idea but I think he was doing Kimbo stuff when Kimbo was doing elitexc stuff lol.

[Jasen777]

I just wonder what the over/under will be on Gracie's T/E level.

[Jasen777]

[ShowtimeFan]

What a joke of a card:

The winner of the Kimba vs Dada should fight Mr. T
The winner of the Sham-rock vs Gracie should fight Dan Severin
And the winner of the two female impersonators should fight Rupaul!

[Cammo101]

Shamrock vs Gracie. lmfaoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

With Kimbo as co-main.

You know you're watching.

I did winch in embarrassment a little though.

Just a little? Kurt Angle? Royce in a gi. Shamrock in general lol.

The most embarrassing part though is that despite the fact that those four fighters have a combined age of like 220 years old, none of them would be the most shot fighter on the card tonight (looking at you James Thompson).

edit: meh maybe that's unfair, didn't realize he had won a few in a row. I feel like everytime I see him fight he is getting KOed by a jab.

Thompson also hurt his leg on that take down apparently. He's a novelty at this point, but not on the Dada 5000 level.

[Cammo101]

Is he seriously holding a sledgehammer? Oh Bellator. They use a great card filled with quality fighters to announce this debacle. What a mess.

[SDM]

I'm all in on that card. I love what Bellator's doing and the niche they're trying to find.

I think there are 32-year-olds in the UFC who shouldn't be fighting either... it is what it is, promoters are going to be able to get around commissions.

[Cammo101]

I'm all in on that card. I love what Bellator's doing and the niche they're trying to find.

I think there are 32-year-olds in the UFC who shouldn't be fighting either... it is what it is, promoters are going to be able to get around commissions.

I respect that they just keep outdoing their last ridiculous thing, I just wish they didn't do these things at the expense of the very talented fighters within their own org. If you want to be a sideshow, that is fine, but there are really talented fighters in Bellator who didn't sign up to be part of a laughing stock.

[SDM]

I'm all in on that card. I love what Bellator's doing and the niche they're trying to find.

I think there are 32-year-olds in the UFC who shouldn't be fighting either... it is what it is, promoters are going to be able to get around commissions.

I respect that they just keep outdoing their last ridiculous thing, I just wish they didn't do these things at the expense of the very talented fighters within their own org. If you want to be a sideshow, that is fine, but there are really talented fighters in Bellator who didn't sign up to be part of a laughing stock.

I didn't see the announcement as taking away from the fights this weekend. Bellator has quality fights and fighters and a bunch of mass appeal crap. I think it's a more refreshing approach than UFCs... who do the exact same thing-- Vitor/Hendo this week, Struve returning, James Toney-- but phrase it as a relevant fight with future implications and the pinnacle of MMA competition. In reality, it was an old guy on gas versus an older guy on gas intentionally held in a jurisdiction that wouldn't question it if the dollar amount was right. Bellator's just following the industry leader.

Also, fighters have to know that none of the main orgs operate as a true merit-based sporting body, so I would guess the tolerance for ancillary shenanigans has been built up for some time. We talk non-stop about the WWEification of MMA, but it's always been a shady business with an eye towards theatrics, going back to UFC 1 and Pride, IFL too, Strikeforce, most definitely Affliction, etc. If anything, going to a true merit-based sports model would be unusual for MMA.

[REDDzone]

I didn't see the announcement as taking away from the fights this weekend. Bellator has quality fights and fighters and a bunch of mass appeal crap. I think it's a more refreshing approach than UFCs... who do the exact same thing-- Vitor/Hendo this week, Struve returning, James Toney-- but phrase it as a relevant fight with future implications and the pinnacle of MMA competition. In reality, it was an old guy on gas versus an older guy on gas intentionally held in a jurisdiction that wouldn't question it if the dollar amount was right. Bellator's just following the industry leader.

I know you were just rattling off examples here but I'm disappointed in you for not mentioning CM Punk. The UFC has literally resorted to signing actors who play wrestlers on TV with no combat experience.

Also, fighters have to know that none of the main orgs operate as a true merit-based sporting body, so I would guess the tolerance for ancillary shenanigans has been built up for some time. We talk non-stop about the WWEification of MMA, but it's always been a shady business with an eye towards theatrics, going back to UFC 1 and Pride, IFL too, Strikeforce, most definitely Affliction, etc. If anything, going to a true merit-based sports model would be unusual for MMA.

Yep. Its almost like if there was a big player with money behind them that truly did merit-based MMA, they could be successful because that is so rare at this point. I think most fighters would prefer it and a good deal of fans as well. Bjorn's bellator was somewhat like this but they were rigid and still kind of cooked the books with their tourney matchups, etc.

[SDM]

I didn't see the announcement as taking away from the fights this weekend. Bellator has quality fights and fighters and a bunch of mass appeal crap. I think it's a more refreshing approach than UFCs... who do the exact same thing-- Vitor/Hendo this week, Struve returning, James Toney-- but phrase it as a relevant fight with future implications and the pinnacle of MMA competition. In reality, it was an old guy on gas versus an older guy on gas intentionally held in a jurisdiction that wouldn't question it if the dollar amount was right. Bellator's just following the industry leader.

I know you were just rattling off examples here but I'm disappointed in you for not mentioning CM Punk. The UFC has literally resorted to signing actors who play wrestlers on TV with no combat experience.

Also, fighters have to know that none of the main orgs operate as a true merit-based sporting body, so I would guess the tolerance for ancillary shenanigans has been built up for some time. We talk non-stop about the WWEification of MMA, but it's always been a shady business with an eye towards theatrics, going back to UFC 1 and Pride, IFL too, Strikeforce, most definitely Affliction, etc. If anything, going to a true merit-based sports model would be unusual for MMA.

Yep. Its almost like if there was a big player with money behind them that truly did merit-based MMA, they could be successful because that is so rare at this point. I think most fighters would prefer it and a good deal of fans as well. Bjorn's bellator was somewhat like this but they were rigid and still kind of cooked the books with their tourney matchups, etc.

I was gonna go back and edit it to add him in, but I already edited a couple times and didn't want to go back in case someone was responding.

[Cammo101]

I'm all in on that card. I love what Bellator's doing and the niche they're trying to find.

I think there are 32-year-olds in the UFC who shouldn't be fighting either... it is what it is, promoters are going to be able to get around commissions.

I respect that they just keep outdoing their last ridiculous thing, I just wish they didn't do these things at the expense of the very talented fighters within their own org. If you want to be a sideshow, that is fine, but there are really talented fighters in Bellator who didn't sign up to be part of a laughing stock.

I didn't see the announcement as taking away from the fights this weekend. Bellator has quality fights and fighters and a bunch of mass appeal crap. I think it's a more refreshing approach than UFCs... who do the exact same thing-- Vitor/Hendo this week, Struve returning, James Toney-- but phrase it as a relevant fight with future implications and the pinnacle of MMA competition. In reality, it was an old guy on gas versus an older guy on gas intentionally held in a jurisdiction that wouldn't question it if the dollar amount was right. Bellator's just following the industry leader.

Also, fighters have to know that none of the main orgs operate as a true merit-based sporting body, so I would guess the tolerance for ancillary shenanigans has been built up for some time. We talk non-stop about the WWEification of MMA, but it's always been a shady business with an eye towards theatrics, going back to UFC 1 and Pride, IFL too, Strikeforce, most definitely Affliction, etc. If anything, going to a true merit-based sports model would be unusual for MMA.

I didn't mean it took away from this card that happened, more that they feature sideshow fighters are the expensive of featuring their real talent on these flagship events. James Toney and CM Punk are the only things that are in a similar vein to what Bellator is doing, but the UFC doesn't bury their best fighters to do these very rare things. Vitor and Hendo is nothing like Kimbo vs. Shamrock. Vitor is a freaking title contender still.

I understand that MMA is never totally merit based, but we aren't seeing the UFC put title fights in the middle of cards so they can spotlight guys like Kimbo Slice. If I'm a guy like Will Brooks or Liam McGeary, I want out of Bellator ASAP.

[SDM]

That's the thing though, Cammo. MMA's modern presentation is all about entertainment and not about the sport. Kimbo, Shamrock, et all, aren't the talent in the sporting sense, but they're the talent in terms of everything else. They move the needle, while Brooks and McGeary have trouble selling tickets to their own families. And it would be the same thing in the UFC, with only a handful of guys who do any measurable business, and most of those guys being shot or on drugs (like Vitor, who is only a title contender because he's gassed to the gills, has only won once outside of bribe-y, notoriously corrupt Brazil in five years... that's a contender*, not a contender).

Why would you want to leave? The MMA purist audience isn't getting bigger and there's no market for it or DC/Gus wouldn't have done 250K buys and Mighty Mouse wouldn't average 300K. If these guys truly felt unappreciated and wanted out of Bellator... the easiest way to do that is to make the non Bellator-watching public care about you by fighting on a card that is going to get new eyeballs and showing some kind of personality. Being good isn't enough now... Mighty Mouse might be the most dominant fighter of all time and no one cares that he's technically brilliant in the same way Hawking or Bruce Springsteen is. It is entirely up to them to market themselves and make themselves more valuable to Bellator and they have tools like management and sponsors that are being restricted in UFC. If either guy wants to get all principled and flirt with UFC, they'd better be champ material right out of the gate or it would be a horrible decision.

Me? Knowing John Alessio drives an Uber in Las Vegas after spending 20 years at a reasonably high level in the sport, I'd market myself long before I angle for championship or headlining fights and thank my lucky stars that I'm young and a sports executive is in charge of the org I fight in, it's owned by a billion-dollar company, and we have a stable presence on TV.

[Cammo101]

That's the thing though, Cammo. MMA's modern presentation is all about entertainment and not about the sport. Kimbo, Shamrock, et all, aren't the talent in the sporting sense, but they're the talent in terms of everything else. They move the needle, while Brooks and McGeary have trouble selling tickets to their own families. And it would be the same thing in the UFC, with only a handful of guys who do any measurable business, and most of those guys being shot or on drugs (like Vitor, who is only a title contender because he's gassed to the gills, has only won once outside of bribe-y, notoriously corrupt Brazil in five years... that's a contender*, not a contender).

Why would you want to leave? The MMA purist audience isn't getting bigger and there's no market for it or DC/Gus wouldn't have done 250K buys and Mighty Mouse wouldn't average 300K. If these guys truly felt unappreciated and wanted out of Bellator... the easiest way to do that is to make the non Bellator-watching public care about you by fighting on a card that is going to get new eyeballs and showing some kind of personality. Being good isn't enough now... Mighty Mouse might be the most dominant fighter of all time and no one cares that he's technically brilliant in the same way Hawking or Bruce Springsteen is. It is entirely up to them to market themselves and make themselves more valuable to Bellator and they have tools like management and sponsors that are being restricted in UFC. If either guy wants to get all principled and flirt with UFC, they'd better be champ material right out of the gate or it would be a horrible decision.

Me? Knowing John Alessio drives an Uber in Las Vegas after spending 20 years at a reasonably high level in the sport, I'd market myself long before I angle for championship or headlining fights and thank my lucky stars that I'm young and a sports executive is in charge of the org I fight in, it's owned by a billion-dollar company, and we have a stable presence on TV.

This is a self fulfilling prophecy though. Those guys will never have a chance to move the needle if they are buried below Dada 5000 on cards. The UFC does all they can to build needle movers (sometimes they aren't effective, but they do it).

[SDM]

That's the thing though, Cammo. MMA's modern presentation is all about entertainment and not about the sport. Kimbo, Shamrock, et all, aren't the talent in the sporting sense, but they're the talent in terms of everything else. They move the needle, while Brooks and McGeary have trouble selling tickets to their own families. And it would be the same thing in the UFC, with only a handful of guys who do any measurable business, and most of those guys being shot or on drugs (like Vitor, who is only a title contender because he's gassed to the gills, has only won once outside of bribe-y, notoriously corrupt Brazil in five years... that's a contender*, not a contender).

Why would you want to leave? The MMA purist audience isn't getting bigger and there's no market for it or DC/Gus wouldn't have done 250K buys and Mighty Mouse wouldn't average 300K. If these guys truly felt unappreciated and wanted out of Bellator... the easiest way to do that is to make the non Bellator-watching public care about you by fighting on a card that is going to get new eyeballs and showing some kind of personality. Being good isn't enough now... Mighty Mouse might be the most dominant fighter of all time and no one cares that he's technically brilliant in the same way Hawking or Bruce Springsteen is. It is entirely up to them to market themselves and make themselves more valuable to Bellator and they have tools like management and sponsors that are being restricted in UFC. If either guy wants to get all principled and flirt with UFC, they'd better be champ material right out of the gate or it would be a horrible decision.

Me? Knowing John Alessio drives an Uber in Las Vegas after spending 20 years at a reasonably high level in the sport, I'd market myself long before I angle for championship or headlining fights and thank my lucky stars that I'm young and a sports executive is in charge of the org I fight in, it's owned by a billion-dollar company, and we have a stable presence on TV.

This is a self fulfilling prophecy though. Those guys will never have a chance to move the needle if they are buried below Dada 5000 on cards. The UFC does all they can to build needle movers (sometimes they aren't effective, but they do it).

Well, they're buried behind Kimbo more so than Dada... you're right about UFC, that is something they do consistently. Almeida's going to get a rocket up his ass and we'll see how that turns out.

Where would Kimbo be placed on a card if he was in UFC now? He'd probably headline those international cards, was 2nd main card fight when he fought Mitrione.

[Cammo101]

That's the thing though, Cammo. MMA's modern presentation is all about entertainment and not about the sport. Kimbo, Shamrock, et all, aren't the talent in the sporting sense, but they're the talent in terms of everything else. They move the needle, while Brooks and McGeary have trouble selling tickets to their own families. And it would be the same thing in the UFC, with only a handful of guys who do any measurable business, and most of those guys being shot or on drugs (like Vitor, who is only a title contender because he's gassed to the gills, has only won once outside of bribe-y, notoriously corrupt Brazil in five years... that's a contender*, not a contender).

Why would you want to leave? The MMA purist audience isn't getting bigger and there's no market for it or DC/Gus wouldn't have done 250K buys and Mighty Mouse wouldn't average 300K. If these guys truly felt unappreciated and wanted out of Bellator... the easiest way to do that is to make the non Bellator-watching public care about you by fighting on a card that is going to get new eyeballs and showing some kind of personality. Being good isn't enough now... Mighty Mouse might be the most dominant fighter of all time and no one cares that he's technically brilliant in the same way Hawking or Bruce Springsteen is. It is entirely up to them to market themselves and make themselves more valuable to Bellator and they have tools like management and sponsors that are being restricted in UFC. If either guy wants to get all principled and flirt with UFC, they'd better be champ material right out of the gate or it would be a horrible decision.

Me? Knowing John Alessio drives an Uber in Las Vegas after spending 20 years at a reasonably high level in the sport, I'd market myself long before I angle for championship or headlining fights and thank my lucky stars that I'm young and a sports executive is in charge of the org I fight in, it's owned by a billion-dollar company, and we have a stable presence on TV.

This is a self fulfilling prophecy though. Those guys will never have a chance to move the needle if they are buried below Dada 5000 on cards. The UFC does all they can to build needle movers (sometimes they aren't effective, but they do it).

Well, they're buried behind Kimbo more so than Dada... you're right about UFC, that is something they do consistently. Almeida's going to get a rocket up his ass and we'll see how that turns out.

Where would Kimbo be placed on a card if he was in UFC now? He'd probably headline those international cards, was 2nd main card fight when he fought Mitrione.

Well, the UFC cut him on account that it was clear they would have to bring in guys like Dada 5000 to make him look like a real UFC caliber fighter. I'd imagine if Kimbo was in the UFC they would find him a spot on PPVs. If you have him, you may as well let his name value drive some dollars your way. I'd imagine they will handle CM Punk the same way.

[SDM]

This did quite well.

Bellator averaged 814,000 viewers for a show that featured two championship fights and a number of surprise announcements.

UFC, going against tougher sports competition, but on a more familiar Saturday night, did 757,000 viewers for its main card headlined by the third meeting between Vitor Belfort and Dan Henderson. Even though Belfort and Henderson are well known names with nearly two decades of star power in the sport, for whatever reason, the match-up has not drawn well. The previous fight between the two, on November 9, 2013, also from Brazil, did 722,000 viewers.

Spike is in 8M more households than Fox Sports, so UFC would be slightly ahead in terms of %s.

Nonetheless, fantastic news for the sport, IMO. Friday is a bitch to get viewers and they actually peaked with Lashley's fight, which drew over 1M viewers. I suppose that means pro wrestling fans/casual MMA fans are tuning in specifically to Bellator to watch Lashley... Bellator's got another star.

Lashley/Brock PLZ.