UFC 218: Holloway vs Aldo II (12/2)

[Bernman]

Do we add Aldo to the things that make you go hmmmm post USADA list?
25-1 before, 1-3 after.

No, we shouldn't just off that.

Firstly, they were to Conor and Max, a higher class of opponent than he had been fighting. He looked good against Frankie a year and a half ago, better than the first time he faced him.

Secondly, while I am of the mind he does look somewhat a shell of himself now, this is an overly simplistic way of determining suspicion by itself. Coming off PED's sometimes is the explanation, but it's also just the sad reality of MMA that a contingent of fighters in any period of a few years will fade quickly. Hell, a contingent of athletes decline rapidly in athletics that don't involve getting hit throughout the body repeatedly by design. Aldo has had 20 Zuffa fights, in recent years there has been some head trauma, he had a rep of pulling out of fights due to injury, and he's over 30 with a style pretty predicated on explosiveness. It's natural he'd be worse now.

At this point it's becoming a witch hunt.

[NO-KG-AI]

Aldo still looks like the stronger and more explosive guy by a noticeable margin, Max is just taller, with a great chin, and awesome cardio.

Aldo has always slipped as the fight goes on, it just seemed like for other guys it was too late and they didn’t have the length or boxing to capitalize on him fading. Max does.

Like I said. I think Max is just also an all time great who presents a matchup problem.


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[REDDzone]

Aldo lost to Conor and Max. You can't just look at raw win/loss numbers and go to the usada thing imo.

[NO-KG-AI]

I know the fight was divisive, but I thought Aldo still looked amazing against Frankie. It wasn't a finish, but it was a beating.

[Prez]

Don't know what Overeem was doing. Francis is incredible but it's like technique just went out the window with Overeem, and he has all the technique in the world. He had to be scared ****less or something.

[lilfishi22]

That's probably one of the vicious KO's I've ever seen in any combat sport. The way Ngannou loaded up and threw basically from his ankle and almost took Overeem's head off, I was legitimately concerned for Overeem's health. We've seen some devasting KO's via knees and this is right up there in terms of devastation.

Not too much to say about this card other than it's my card of year. It had the brawls, title fight, crazy KO's and two stars reaching new heights in their popularity (Holloway and Ngannou).

[Headliner]

Ya, that might have been the most savage KO ever. Right there with U.Halls head kick on his tuf season.

The thing that made it disturbing though was the hammer fist after. He was crippled already and then with sledge hammer like force and landed squarely on his unconscious head. That's the stuff that can kill you, your body has already shut down by that point.

Refs need to be extra vigilant with HWs imo. They always need to be on, especially in the early rounds when people are throwing with full force and are still quick to land that second punch. The refs need to not worry about a bad stoppage with those guys, because an extra shot or two there is putting those guys in adult diapers decades sooner. It's much better to lose, even a title, then it is to lose the function of your body/mind long term.

[cowboyronnie]

God damn, Max is good. Keeping punches on his opponents. He'd get clipped but always after having just taken something off of those punches by landing a couple of his own and moving beautifully over his hips.

Gaethje and Alvarez too.

All credits to the sport.

What a card.

Max baddest MFer around imo. Division is cleared besides Edgar.

That's a guaranteed next match, yeah? A real style problem for Max. He has to put one of those first punches on a dude to set-up all his movement. That's going to be tough as heck against Frankie.

[REDDzone]

I'm hoping that Frankie fight is as good as you guys think it will be. Also hoping it happens sooner than later (superbowl weekendish?) because I know Frankie was only out a few weeks for his injury.

I envision Frankie being too tough for his own good and taking a sustained beating.

Obviously would never count Frankie out after some of the wars he's been in, just my initial thought.

[cowboyronnie]

Same path as the Diaz brothers. Great cardio + boxing just puts people into the deep water and drowns them.

That's kind of how I understand it, but what makes him so much better than they are/were?

More power and more Precision Imo.

They square up and get macho in a way he doesn't when he's landing those non-stop pressure punches. Max is still shifting his weight forward and back with his 1s and 2s, it keeps his opponents at the end of his lead hand. Aldo was backed down winging, Max was just touch touch Whereas, Nick gets clipped hard and dropped cos he squares up and starts digging to the body when he has guys backed down. Max stays more disciplined.

He's so much better than either of them ever have been. Plus, the MT techniques and way better athleticism, unpredictability.

[cowboyronnie]

I think that Overeem KO devastation had as much to do with when it landed than how it was thrown. I have never seen a head whip like that. Like a car accident. That has to with it being a good punch, sure, but also a punch out of rhythm and from a weird angle. AO's shoulder girdle wasn't in a state to eat it. Which is a rare case for upper cuts, which usually land while a guy has just hunched down or otherwise feels it coming and can tense his body.

[cowboyronnie]

So happy to see Eddie redeem himself, man. The guy is a legend. Some dignity after that Conor loss (can't even be described how embarassing that must have been - MSG, the allusions to all sorts of thing he's done...outside of the UFC, all the s*** talk -bdidn't land a punch).

[lilfishi22]

I think that Overeem KO devastation had as much to do with when it landed than how it was thrown. I have never seen a head whip like that. Like a car accident. That has to with it being a good punch, sure, but also a punch out of rhythm and from a weird angle. AO's shoulder girdle wasn't in a state to eat it. Which is a rare case for upper cuts, which usually land while a guy has just hunched down or otherwise feels it coming and can tense his body.

That power behind it was insane but what made it worse was that punch was unstoppable. Overeem was completely out of position. It's like for that one sequence he completely threw away all good footwork and fundamentals for a weak overhand left which also put him out of position and giving the Predator inside position.

Also Overeem is a pretty good in the clinch with solid strength and technique but Ngannou just totally out-muscled him when they clinched lol Overeem looked like a 205er in there.

[cowboyronnie]

Do we add Aldo to the things that make you go hmmmm post USADA list?
25-1 before, 1-3 after.
He was 28, not like he was over the hill.
His cardio looks horrible, but his skills are still strong. Plus, hate to say it, but he's from Brazil and they basically all popped

His physique and power haven't changed at all. He's still super muscular, his punches are still powerful. Whereas, look at Vitor, Sonnen, Jacare, and the Reem. That's what a physique looks like coming off testosterone.

There doesn't seem any drop-off in things attributable to PED deficit.

I remember him looking insane in that last Frankie fight. Edit:



He's got muscles in his forearm bigger than Cammo's quads.