UFC 254: Khabib vs Justin G

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Re: UFC 254: Khabib vs Justin G 

Post#221 » by radeonboy » Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:30 pm

Jasen777 wrote:
radeonboy wrote:Who's Kanye West?


He went undefeated in Pride.


Is he this guy (RIP) that dumped Fedor on his head/neck and couldn't finish him?

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Re: UFC 254: Khabib vs Justin G 

Post#222 » by radeonboy » Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:39 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:
radeonboy wrote:Khabib over GSP as GOAT for me is not possible because Khabib inactivity/injuries the past few years. GSP has like 8 or 9 consecutive successful title defenses to Khabib's 3 or 4? And GSP had like some crazy number of title wins. As a whole GSP cleaned out the division, is a welterweight and middleweight champ, is class in and out of the octagon, a consummate professional. And GSP beat guys in the TRT era and is non drug cheat.

1. GSP
2. Fedor
3. Aldo
4. Mighty Mouse
5. Khabib


2-4 I have some issues. Fedor's resume is pretty weak when you break it down. His long stretch of never losing was filled with freak fights and washed up fighters. Aldo was still in his 20s when he lost to Conor, Aldo is 3-6 since turning 29. So its not like all his losses came with him fighting way past his physical prime or anything. Then when it comes to Mighty Mouse, who are the 2 biggest names he fought in his career? Cruz and Henry probably, he lost to both of them.


I can't change your mind, this is just my list, you don't have to agree.

Fedor was an undersized HW and cleaned out his division in Pride where you had steroid and drug cheats galore. There are notable names in that list and maybe those fun random fights you talk of but I can't change that the fact he reigned for so long in that undersized HW frame and beat those freakshow guys weighing more than him. That in itself is damn impressive to me. He also beat a handful of guys that ended up being UFC champs.

Same thing with Mighty Mouse, he cleaned out his division. He's done his job in his weight class. Never gets the respect he deserves.

Aldo I just love his WEC 34 to UFC 179 run, it is one of the greatest runs in MMA history full of highlight reels. I feel Aldo was already out of his prime by the time he met Conor.

Khabib is a phenomenal fighter, definitely should be in the GOAT conversation but I can't put him at the top. I remember him mostly for his yes dominant wins but I also remember him for his injuries that allowed him to skip bad match ups. He didn't get to clean out his division. He should not retire, he is just emotional right now, he has way more to offer and accomplish.

But this list can change, someone in the future might become the next GOAT, could be Izzy but who knows.
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Re: UFC 254: Khabib vs Justin G 

Post#223 » by Jasen777 » Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:52 pm

GSP is the GOAT of being a GOAT and answering GOAT questions.
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Re: UFC 254: Khabib vs Justin G 

Post#224 » by Headliner » Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:10 am

Khabib being the Goat or even near GOAT status is such nonsense. It’s based on a theoretical projection that he would steamroll everyone he faces.
It completely negates the Longevity of dominance that is required to be considered the GOAT. Being the GOAT isn’t a snap shot of a career or else Cain would be looked at, or Aldo would be higher.
We don’t know how he ages, how he will do as the damage he takes start effect his abilities, how his future opponents are just getting the playbook together as each fighter he faces reveals a little more about how to beat him.
He’s only started facing elite competition his last three fights. That’s a big part of the barometer for a GOAT.

Just giving him the benefit of the doubt is crazy.
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Re: UFC 254: Khabib vs Justin G 

Post#225 » by zhenyasj » Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:47 am

Headliner wrote:
cowboyronnie wrote:Damn. I can't believe he had JG panicked in under 3 minutes. And he gave up the first minute. The moment he turned it on, JG cracked. He was heaving for breath and backpedaling. I'll have to rewatch to see how that even happened.

Khabib could definitely have finished that standing had he wanted to. Against, imo, the most fluid puncher in the sport.


I don’t think so at all.
It was frantic and crazy, but when JG Landed the leg kicks Khabib was buckeling. Khabib was also huffing too, he was struggling to breath during his interview still.
The whole thing coming in was JG had to survive 2 rounds and then Khabib, with a compromised weight cut might gas out enough that the takedowns are weak, which we’ve seen slightly in the past. Khabib fought like he knew that, and that was perfect game planning because it worked.
That said though, JG was winning the first round. Two judges gave him it. He had 15 significant leg strikes and they were huge. They were icing his legs in between the round.
Khabib mauled him, but the idea he was going to take him out on his feet, I don’t think so. The longer that stood up the more likely Khabibs leg is in the first row.

Was listening to Firas Zahabi's post fight reaction and he didn't believe that anyone would give JG the first round so had to double check. Wasn't even close according to him.
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Re: UFC 254: Khabib vs Justin G 

Post#226 » by Headliner » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:50 am

zhenyasj wrote:
Headliner wrote:
cowboyronnie wrote:Damn. I can't believe he had JG panicked in under 3 minutes. And he gave up the first minute. The moment he turned it on, JG cracked. He was heaving for breath and backpedaling. I'll have to rewatch to see how that even happened.

Khabib could definitely have finished that standing had he wanted to. Against, imo, the most fluid puncher in the sport.


I don’t think so at all.
It was frantic and crazy, but when JG Landed the leg kicks Khabib was buckeling. Khabib was also huffing too, he was struggling to breath during his interview still.
The whole thing coming in was JG had to survive 2 rounds and then Khabib, with a compromised weight cut might gas out enough that the takedowns are weak, which we’ve seen slightly in the past. Khabib fought like he knew that, and that was perfect game planning because it worked.
That said though, JG was winning the first round. Two judges gave him it. He had 15 significant leg strikes and they were huge. They were icing his legs in between the round.
Khabib mauled him, but the idea he was going to take him out on his feet, I don’t think so. The longer that stood up the more likely Khabibs leg is in the first row.

Was listening to Firas Zahabi's post fight reaction and he didn't believe that anyone would give JG the first round so had to double check. Wasn't even close according to him.



Not saying its the case, but his personal motivation was to see Khabib win to set up the GSP vs Khabib match. Again not saying that it means his opinion is invalid, but personal bias can skew perception.

That said JG won the stand up, even if he was back peddling, frantic and a little crazy. He was clipping him some really big shots, Khabib was a robot though and plowed through. Personally I thought the takedown would have gave Khabib the round, but these judges most not value the take down, but what you do with it? Not sure. Take down values are hard. Personally I think if you end the round in control on the ground that should weigh heavily into you winning the round.
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Re: UFC 254: Khabib vs Justin G 

Post#227 » by goodboy » Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:10 pm

Khabib p4p goat. GG.

What a career.
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Re: UFC 254: Khabib vs Justin G 

Post#228 » by Headliner » Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:35 pm

goodboy wrote:Khabib p4p goat. GG.

What a career.



Wins vs Ranked opponents
Jones - 20
GSP - 18
...
Khabib - 9

Wins vs Former/Future/Current champions UFC, Strikeforce, Pride, Bellator
GSP - 8 (10 if you count beating them twice)
Jones - 7
...
Khabib - 1

Title defenses
Jones - 11
GSP - 9
...
Khabib - 3
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Re: UFC 254: Khabib vs Justin G 

Post#229 » by cowboyronnie » Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:16 pm

Losses: GSP, 2; Khabib, 0
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Re: UFC 254: Khabib vs Justin G 

Post#230 » by Headliner » Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:35 pm

cowboyronnie wrote:Losses: GSP, 2; Khabib, 0


Jones 0.
Tibeau disagrees with Khabibs zero lol.

Seriously though, Khabib's beat 4 guys worth mentioning...the debate is pure lunacy.

If Khamzat beats Edwards, he will be 3 wins away from being the goat!
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Re: UFC 254: Khabib vs Justin G 

Post#231 » by goodboy » Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:46 pm

Headliner wrote:
goodboy wrote:Khabib p4p goat. GG.

What a career.



Wins vs Ranked opponents
Jones - 20
GSP - 18
...
Khabib - 9

Wins vs Former/Future/Current champions UFC, Strikeforce, Pride, Bellator
GSP - 8 (10 if you count beating them twice)
Jones - 7
...
Khabib - 1

Title defenses
Jones - 11
GSP - 9
...
Khabib - 3

Why are you quoting me? It's my opinion and the vast majority.

Go away guy. :lol:
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Re: UFC 254: Khabib vs Justin G 

Post#232 » by REDDzone » Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:53 pm

Yea, it's definitely not the vast majority's opinion that Khabib is the GOAT. And if it is, it won't be after this honeymoon period is over.

One of the best ever and maybe the most dominant fighter ever. But the accomplishments just don't stack up to being the GOAT.
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Re: UFC 254: Khabib vs Justin G 

Post#233 » by goodboy » Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:56 pm

REDDzone wrote:Yea, it's definitely not the vast majority's opinion that Khabib is the GOAT. And if it is, it won't be after this honeymoon period is over.

One of the best ever and maybe the most dominant fighter ever. But the accomplishments just don't stack up to being the GOAT.

Eh wouldn't count this thread with 5 people as vast majority.

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Re: UFC 254: Khabib vs Justin G 

Post#234 » by cowboyronnie » Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:39 pm

Headliner wrote:
cowboyronnie wrote:Losses: GSP, 2; Khabib, 0


Jones 0.
Tibeau disagrees with Khabibs zero lol.

Seriously though, Khabib's beat 4 guys worth mentioning...the debate is pure lunacy.

If Khamzat beats Edwards, he will be 3 wins away from being the goat!


You're being selective in your evidence, is the point. Khabib never, once got **** up. GSP both LOST (by stoppage) and got beaten to a pulp multiple times (including in wins).

This is evidence that has to be considered.

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Re: UFC 254: Khabib vs Justin G 

Post#235 » by REDDzone » Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:21 pm

Obviously people care less about pre-UFC records in this discussion. But one thing to point out to, since I've seen people cite the 29-0 thing in favor of Khabib, is that many of his pre-UFC fights were just a joke. I count 7 fight against opponents with losing records just scrolling through his record in 30 seconds, so definitely some padding there. GSP never fought anyone with a losing record and his fights outside of the UFC were against guys like Ivan Menjivar lol. FWIW, I count one Jones fight early career vs a guy with a losing record.
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Re: UFC 254: Khabib vs Justin G 

Post#236 » by Duke4life831 » Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:34 pm

cowboyronnie wrote:Losses: GSP, 2; Khabib, 0


To be fair one of those losses came against an all time great in Matt Hughes when GSP was only 23 and it was his 8th professional fight. Lets compare who Khabib was fighting when he was 23 and 8 fights into his career. For comparison Khabib was 24 and 18 fights into his career when he fought Tibau and many people thought he lost that fight. You can make the argument a 23 year old GSP fought a tougher fighter in a prime Matt Hughes than Khabib ever faced in his career. GSP was pretty much fighting the best fighters in the division since he was 23 years old.
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Re: UFC 254: Khabib vs Justin G 

Post#237 » by Headliner » Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:02 pm

REDDzone wrote:Obviously people care less about pre-UFC records in this discussion. But one thing to point out to, since I've seen people cite the 29-0 thing in favor of Khabib, is that many of his pre-UFC fights were just a joke. I count 7 fight against opponents with losing records just scrolling through his record in 30 seconds, so definitely some padding there. GSP never fought anyone with a losing record and his fights outside of the UFC were against guys like Ivan Menjivar lol. FWIW, I count one Jones fight early career vs a guy with a losing record.


Exactly.
It’s why the debate is so ridiculous.

GSP and Jones have fought top 10 guys for huge portions of not almost their entire careers. You are talking 17-20ish fights.

Khabib fought 6 I think.
When you fight elite competition, that is when you are tested. That’s when A) weaknesses are exposed and B) injuries add up.

Khabib is just entering that phase of his career and is retiring.

You can say he’s one of the best to do it, but saying he’s the best...dear god
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Re: UFC 254: Khabib vs Justin G 

Post#238 » by REDDzone » Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:08 pm

Headliner wrote:
REDDzone wrote:Obviously people care less about pre-UFC records in this discussion. But one thing to point out to, since I've seen people cite the 29-0 thing in favor of Khabib, is that many of his pre-UFC fights were just a joke. I count 7 fight against opponents with losing records just scrolling through his record in 30 seconds, so definitely some padding there. GSP never fought anyone with a losing record and his fights outside of the UFC were against guys like Ivan Menjivar lol. FWIW, I count one Jones fight early career vs a guy with a losing record.


Exactly.
It’s why the debate is so ridiculous.

GSP and Jones have fought top 10 guys for huge portions of not almost their entire careers. You are talking 17-20ish fights.

Khabib fought 6 I think.
When you fight elite competition, that is when you are tested. That’s when A) weaknesses are exposed and B) injuries add up.

Khabib is just entering that phase of his career and is retiring.

You can say he’s one of the best to do it, but saying he’s the best...dear god


I realize I'm a broken record here, but I think it's possible that Khabib is the best fighter I've ever seen. It seems like dude never loses a second of a fight. Even when he's lost rounds they have been tossups. He's never had his ass kicked. The fact that people always point to the one time Michael Johnson maybe kinda sorta rocked him once and Rogan screamed like a schoolgirl is telling. Then you have the fact that a guy like DC who has trained with him for a decade has never sen him tap, it's just mind-boggling.

That said, I really don't see the argument that he's the most accomplished fighter. He just doesn't have the resume. We will just never know if he would have been tested more and been handed a few losses a la GSP if he had went on to reign for a decade over his division.
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Re: UFC 254: Khabib vs Justin G 

Post#239 » by NO-KG-AI » Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:17 pm

Imagine how fondly Chris Weidman would be looked upon if he walked away after the Vitor fight. People would still think he was the possible foil to Bones, etc.

Khabib is a monster, but you can’t compare his short reign to something like GSPs lengthy dominance.


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Re: UFC 254: Khabib vs Justin G 

Post#240 » by REDDzone » Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:33 am

NO-KG-AI wrote:Imagine how fondly Chris Weidman would be looked upon if he walked away after the Vitor fight. People would still think he was the possible foil to Bones, etc.

Khabib is a monster, but you can’t compare his short reign to something like GSPs lengthy dominance.


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Man, what if Anderson retired after Bonnar? :o
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