Boxing Thread 3.0

GS Warriors 1 · Post #1281 » by **GS Warriors 1** » Fri May 31, 2013 10:33 pm

If he isn't ready then when? He's coming off a win over the 2nd best guy in the division in Trout. I don't think fighting guys like Smith and/or Angulo before Mayweather would've done anything for Alvarez, Trout is a much better overall fighter than those guys. I do think Mayweather, as Rasho stated above, is facing him at the correct time. Canelo is a talent and he's good now but there is still room for growth IMO(ie., working on conditioning). I like Mayweather in a 116-112 kind of fight, I think Alvarez gives him a good fight, much like Cotto and DLH did but not enough to beat him.

ItsDaBrush · Post #1282 » by **ItsDaBrush** » Sat Jun 1, 2013 3:12 am

Why would Canelo's conditioning get better as he gets older? He's a young 22 year old fight with 7 years of pro experience, if he doesn't have good stamina right now then he will never have it as a jmw. Some guys will just always gas out even if they're in amazing physical shape (Cotto).

Butch718 · Post #1283 » by **Butch718** » Sat Jun 1, 2013 8:54 am

GS Warriors 1 wrote:If he isn't ready then when? He's coming off a win over the 2nd best guy in the division in Trout. I don't think fighting guys like Smith and/or Angulo before Mayweather would've done anything for Alvarez, Trout is a much better overall fighter than those guys. I do think Mayweather, as Rasho stated above, is facing him at the correct time. Canelo is a talent and he's good now but there is still room for growth IMO(ie., working on conditioning). I like Mayweather in a 116-112 kind of fight, I think Alvarez gives him a good fight, much like Cotto and DLH did but not enough to beat him.

I actually think another one or two fights would have done him a lot of good. We're already seeing how rapidly he's progressing. It's not like he's hit his ceiling. He's only 22 for crying out loud. But he's still not there yet. A fight against Lara would have been a good test for Canelo before fighting Floyd. Hell, even a fight against a past his prime Cotto would have helped in his development and overall maturity as a fighter.

That being said, I'm not knocking the fight for being made. They're striking while the iron is hot. Canelo really doesn't have anything to lose by jumping in so quickly. If he loses, it's no big deal. I just think that if he got a little more experience under his belt, he would have had a better chance of beating Floyd. And yes, a year would have made a difference. Just look how much Canelo has improved from a couple of years ago. He's improved steadily as a fighter if you study each of his bouts from 2011-2013.

Em1 · Post #1284 » by **Em1** » Sun Jun 2, 2013 1:26 am

Perfect is the enemy of the good. September 14 is good enough, soon enough. The sport needs super fights and only two guys can really provide them.

www.boxingjabs.com

skflives · Post #1285 » by **skflives** » Mon Jun 3, 2013 8:18 pm

Butch718 wrote:I actually think another one or two fights would have done him a lot of good. We're already seeing how rapidly he's progressing. It's not like he's hit his ceiling. He's only 22 for crying out loud. But he's still not there yet. A fight against Lara would have been a good test for Canelo before fighting Floyd. Hell, even a fight against a past his prime Cotto would have helped in his development and overall maturity as a fighter.

I understand that perspective but the problem with the idea of having Canelo tested against a guy like Lara is that it might just be a replay of Rigo/Donaire. A big fight was ruined because the money man was put in against someone capable of outboxing him in a boring fight. While Canelo is capable of beating Lara I wouldn't want to risk a Mayweather/Canelo fight just to prove it. And with all due respect. I don't see what a Cotto fight would have done to move Canelo along. Canelo just beat a guy who outboxed Cotto. Both fights were close and competitive but Canelo beat the tougher matchup already. A fight with Cotto is a step back. Now if Canelo loses to Mayweather a fight with Cotto would be entirely justified. But as of now I think this is Canelo's best option. He's as ready as he's going to be to take on a quality Floyd Mayweather Jr.

Butch718 · Post #1286 » by **Butch718** » Sat Jun 8, 2013 7:36 am

You have a point about Lara.

But I really disagree with you on Cotto not moving Canelo along. It doesn't matter if Trout beat him or is the tougher fighter out of the two. A fight like that would give Canelo more experience and time to work on some kinks. And even though Cotto is past his prime, he's still better than the majority of the fighters at 154. It's not about taking a step back in competition, it's about what it can potentially do for Canelo's overall growth as a fighter.

skflives · Post #1287 » by **skflives** » Sat Jun 8, 2013 5:39 pm

I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree. While there are certainly kinks a fighter as young as Canelo can work out there will always be kinks he has to work out. This is particularly true with Canelo considering all the soft touches he's had over the years. I don't think any of the kinks he'd iron out will be enough to make a difference one way or the other. He's not going to outbox Mayweather. He wins or loses this fight based upon how much he is able to put his size/youth/strength advantage over Mayweather into use.

Plus you have to take into account the reaming he'd get for taking on a guy coming off 2 losses when he had a chance to fight Floyd Mayweather Jr.

Butch718 · Post #1288 » by **Butch718** » Sat Jun 8, 2013 6:57 pm

Like I said, I have no issues with Canelo taking this fight whatsoever. It makes sense and it's a win-win situation for him.

I just think that another fight or two would have made a difference in his overall preparedness for facing someone like Mayweather. The one thing that I like about Canelo is that he's starting to implement a decent defense to go along with a pretty good offense. You saw some of it during the Trout fight when he was using more head movement to avoid some of those pot shots. He was bobbing and weaving more. It looked like it was something he was working on during his last training camp. Now, just imagine if he had another couple of fights under his belt to actually work on those skills. It certainly would give him an overall better chance to actually beat Mayweather. Like I said, it's not as if he's reached his peak. He''s still growing as a fighter and is only going to turn 23 next month. So yeah, every fight counts when it comes to his development.

Also, a fight against Cotto would have been a huge money making PPV. A fight like that would have done close to a million PPV buys due to the rabid PR and Mexican fan bases for both fighters. It could have given Canelo more leverage in negotiations against Mayweather, so that he probably wouldn't have been forced to concede a 152 pound catch weight.

GS Warriors 1 · Post #1289 » by **GS Warriors 1** » Sat Jun 8, 2013 10:56 pm

A lot of fights on tonight on both HBO and Showtime.

Showtime has a triple-header with Jermell Charlo-Demetrius Hopkins, Erislandy Lara-Alfredo Angulo, and the main event is Josesito Lopez-Marcos Maidana. I expect a lot of fireworks in the main event. Lopez has shown some decent skills in the past but make no mistake, he loves himself a good brawl. I think that will play into the hands of "El Chino". I pick Maidana to stop him late in a great fight. I like Lara to outbox Angulo but Lara is way too inconsistent for me. If the inconsistent Lara shows up then Angulo's got a really good shot.

HBO's main event is likely to be on the other side of the coin. Chad Dawson-Adonis Stevenson is only really interesting because of the chance that Dawson gets absolutely KTFO. Dawson has the talent and skills to control this fight, thus it could get pretty boring. I think a good comp for this match would be Mike Jones-Randall Bailey from last year. Darleys Perez faces off with Yuriorkis Gamboa at lightweight. Gamboa didn't look good at 130, now he's moving up to LW to face a solid puncher and Yuri's chin has never been all that good to begin with, so we'll see what happens.

Post #1290 » by **Rich Rane** » Sun Jun 9, 2013 4:47 am

Huh...wow. That was a solid left cross.

Butch718 · Post #1291 » by **Butch718** » Sun Jun 9, 2013 5:23 am

Nice win by Lara. That was a clean punch despite what Virgil Hunter was claiming. The replays showed that it definitely wasn't a thumb punch. That's what happens when you have no defense whatsoever. Angulo is a tough SOB, but not a very good boxer. Lara showed a lot of guts recovering from those two knock downs, and coming back to get the TKO stoppage at that.

Maidana/Lopez was entertaining while it lasted. Like everyone else, I definitely want to see Chico face Matthysse.

Didn't see the Stevenson knockout on HBO. That should put him on Andre Ward's radar.

GS Warriors 1 · Post #1292 » by **GS Warriors 1** » Sun Jun 9, 2013 6:43 am

2 good fights and a KO of the Year. I'd say it was a good night of boxing.

skflives · Post #1293 » by **skflives** » Sun Jun 9, 2013 12:30 pm

Butch718 wrote:Nice win by Lara. That was a clean punch despite what Virgil Hunter was claiming. The replays showed that it definitely wasn't a thumb punch. That's what happens when you have no defense whatsoever. Angulo is a tough SOB, but not a very good boxer. Lara showed a lot of guts recovering from those two knock downs, and coming back to get the TKO stoppage at that.

Maidana/Lopez was entertaining while it lasted. Like everyone else, I definitely want to see Chico face Matthysse.

Didn't see the Stevenson knockout on HBO. That should put him on Andre Ward's radar.

I would love to see Matthysse fight Maidana but it'll probably have to wait until after Matthysse kills Garcia.

Butch718 · Post #1294 » by **Butch718** » Sun Jun 9, 2013 10:13 pm

And Khan or a rematch with Alexander after that. So it might not happen till the middle or end of next year.

Em1 · Post #1295 » by **Em1** » Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:18 am

I fear for khan's life if he has to go another 12 with MM

www.boxingjabs.com

cowboyronnie · Post #1296 » by **cowboyronnie** » Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:47 am

I don't grasp what they're trying to explain about Gamboa's struggles. I believe tehre's something, for sure, cos his talent is just crazy.

That was a fluke punch by Stevenson, his movement otherwise looked really poor. Definitly a legit stoppage, though. Dawson was effed.

Butch718 · Post #1297 » by **Butch718** » Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:42 am

How can you negatively comment on his movement? The fight lasted exactly one minute. :lol:

It wasn't enough time to showcase his overall skills other than showing that he has game changing power. That KO wasn't fluky, it was legit.

And the HBO crew made some good points about Gamboa. He has the talent but he doesn't have the overall package. He looks mediocre against mediocre competition. He just doesn't leave you feeling impressed. On top of that, he has a really suspect chin.

cowboyronnie · Post #1298 » by **cowboyronnie** » Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:46 pm

Butch718 wrote:How can you negatively comment on his movement? The fight lasted exactly one minute. It wasn't enough time to showcase his overall skills other than showing that he has game changing power. That KO wasn't fluky, it was legit.

They had a package of him training and then again showed him warm-up inbetween the rounds of the Gamboa fight.

ItsDaBrush · Post #1299 » by **ItsDaBrush** » Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:02 pm

Why does Angulo keep complaining about getting thumbed in the eye? I guess he's trying to excuse his "no mas" but there's nothing wrong with quitting right there, better than turning into Lebedev.

Also Richard Schaefer accusing Lara of thumbing Angulo is disgraceful. Angulo is the bigger draw but Lara is still a fighter you promote, the way GBP is promoting Lara is terrible

Butch718 · Post #1300 » by **Butch718** » Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:10 pm

GBP has been disrespecting Lara for the longest time. Angulo, his team and GBP can complain all they want. The replays showed that it was a clean left to the eye that broke his orbital bone. I hate to say it, but that's what Angulo gets for having absolutely no defense whatsoever. You keep allowing yourself to get hit in the face, and something bad is going to happen. While I appreciate his guts, toughness and heart in the ring, the guy is a piss poor boxer. Brawling will only take you so far. Elite boxers usually find a way to get it done, and that's what Lara did.