Cammo Counts Down The Top 100 MMA Fighters of All Time

UN-Owen · Post #341 » by **UN-Owen** » Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:54 am

Mark Coleman's dominance was a byproduct of steroids

As a fighter, he was no better than Mark Kerr

Cammo101 · Post #342 » by **Cammo101** » Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:56 am

kdawg32086 wrote:
Cammo101 wrote:
kdawg32086 wrote:Nah, but there are three guys who aren't in the top 100 so far who I absolutely think are top 100, but wouldn't be in the top 15 tho. I already asked about one of them earlier.

Who are they? I'll tell you if they are in the top 15 or not.

Frank Trigg, Dennis Hallman, Jeff Monson. I think all 3 are top 100 but definitely not top 15.

All 3 were considered, but none of the 3 got especially close. Trigg's only real claim to MMA fame was kicking Hughes in the nuts before getting choked out. His biggest career win is probably over either Hallman or Mayhem Miller. Not really on par with even the bottom guys on this list. Hallman is a guy who is really just a journeyman, except for 2 crazy fluke wins over Matt Hughes. As impressive as those wins were, he has never been especially elite and has little in the way of quality wins outside of the Hughes wins. Monson is another guy who seems to be a can crusher. He beats most all of the guys he is supposed to, but loses to most of the elite fighters he's fought.

Those 3 guys combined hold 3 wins over fighters on this list. To put that into perspective, Kampmann, the #100 guy on this list has 3 wins against the top 100 and also wins over Rick Story, Paulo Thiago, Jacob Volkmann, and Thales Leites.

REDDzone · Post #343 » by **REDDzone** » Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:59 am

UN-Owen wrote:Mark Coleman's dominance was a byproduct of steroids

As a fighter, he was no better than Mark Kerr

Its so hard to compare these guys because I'm not really sure when Kerr's addiction started becoming a real problem, but I feel like I've seen Kerr break mentally in ways that Coleman never really did (not talking about the twilight years for either, but in both of their haydays).

And yes, the above is as laughably subjective as some know-it-all on the basketball portion of this site saying a guy has "it" or some other such nonsense. So feel free to just roll our eyes. I'm just sort of an mma (especially oldschool mma) junkie and have watched all the old ufc and pride stuff extensively, and that was my take.

Cammo101 · Post #344 » by **Cammo101** » Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:03 am

#15 - Jose Aldo

http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Jose-Aldo-11506

Former WEC and current UFC Featherwight champion, Jose Aldo is on a historic run and has not lost a fight since 2005. Aldo is already to top fighter ever under 155 pounds, and by the time he retires he could be in the top 5 of all time. He holds a career record of 22-1, a WEC record of 8-0, and a UFC record of 4-0. He has career victories over Chad Mendes, Frankie Edgar, Kenny Florian, Mike Thomas Brown, and Urijah Faber.

cowboyronnie · Post #345 » by **cowboyronnie** » Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:13 am

Oof, I did not know Coleman had so many losses, even early in his career. The guy was 15-9 after his last Pride fight (and that includes a ridiculous "win" against Shogun - lol @ "rooooar! I did that to him!"). So 14-9, subtracting that. edit: To be fair, subtract the Takada "loss" too. So 14-8.

He lost waay more big fights than he won. Rizzo, Smith, Williams, Nog, Fedorx2, Cro Cop, Randy. Versus wins against Frye, Severn, Goodridge, Shoji, Bonnar and Igor...not an illustrious bunch of wins, though "names". Igor, and I guess Severn, are the only impressive wins in his whole career.

Jasen777 · Post #346 » by **Jasen777** » Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:33 am

Cammo101 wrote: Aldo is already to top fighter ever under 155 pounds,

And only 15th overall. Tough on the small guys. (That's more of an observation than a disagreement).

Post #347 » by **kdawg32086** » Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:41 am

Cammo101 wrote:
kdawg32086 wrote:
Cammo101 wrote:
Who are they? I'll tell you if they are in the top 15 or not.

Frank Trigg, Dennis Hallman, Jeff Monson. I think all 3 are top 100 but definitely not top 15.

All 3 were considered, but none of the 3 got especially close. Trigg's only real claim to MMA fame was kicking Hughes in the nuts before getting choked out. His biggest career win is probably over either Hallman or Mayhem Miller. Not really on par with even the bottom guys on this list. Hallman is a guy who is really just a journeyman, except for 2 crazy fluke wins over Matt Hughes. As impressive as those wins were, he has never been especially elite and has little in the way of quality wins outside of the Hughes wins. Monson is another guy who seems to be a can crusher. He beats most all of the guys he is supposed to, but loses to most of the elite fighters he's fought.

Those 3 guys combined hold 3 wins over fighters on this list. To put that into perspective, Kampmann, the #100 guy on this list has 3 wins against the top 100 and also wins over Rick Story, Paulo Thiago, Jacob Volkmann, and Thales Leites.

If Kampmann is the gatekeeper for judging guys like Trigg, Hallman, and Monson to be on the list, then how are Lindland, Parisyan, and Nate Diaz even on this list? I don't think any of them are better than Kampmann. At best, Lindland should be on the same level as the guys like Trigg, Hallman, and Monson.

Cammo101 · Post #348 » by **Cammo101** » Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:00 am

There are a lot of quality guys that didn't quite make the list. I think, as was posted earlier, than Anthony Pettis has a better case than any of the three guys above.

Post #349 » by **kdawg32086** » Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:01 pm

You already know how I feel about Pettis (too soon for top 100) and in general, I think our board overvalues current fighters and undervalues the older guys. The older guys are at a disadvantage because we know how their careers finished (and training methods were not as advanced), whereas we're making assumptions that all of the current guys are going to keep winning or avoid strings of losses that all of the older guys all faced at the end of their careers. And even some of the older guys on the list seem to have benefited from fighting in the UFC or having name recognition, rather than merit.

Cammo101 · Post #350 » by **Cammo101** » Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:15 pm

#14 - Bas "El Guapo" Rutten

http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Bas-Rutten-214

One of MMA's biggest personalities, it is sometimes easy to forget just how great of a fighter Bas Rutten was. The former UFC Heavyweight champion and 3 time King of Pancrase, Rutten finished his career on a 22 fight unbeaten streak. His career record is 28-4-1, with victories over Masakatsu Funaki, Guy Mezger, Kevin Randleman, Maurice Smith, and Frank Shamrock twice. Rutten could easily be a top 5 fighter on this list had injuries not cut him down in his prime.

Post #351 » by **Headliner** » Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:20 pm

I'm interested to see where Seagal ranks in all of this

Cammo101 · Post #352 » by **Cammo101** » Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:23 pm

Headliner wrote:I'm interested to see where Seagal ranks in all of this

Right behind Tank Abbott at #2.

Cammo101 · Post #353 » by **Cammo101** » Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:14 pm

#13 - Mauricio "Shogun" Rua

http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Mauricio-Rua-5707

Shogun is the former UFC Light Heavyweight champion and 2005 Pride Middleweight Grand Prix champion. He holds a career record of 21-7, a Pride record of 12-1, and a UFC record of 5-5. Shogun holds victories over Rampage Jackson, Mark Coleman, Forrest Griffin, Chuck Liddell, Lyoto Machida, and Alistair Overeem twice. It is a shame Shogun never fought Wanderlei Silva or Chuck Liddell while they were in their primes. We could have answered this best Light Heavyweight of all time (or until Jon Jones soon passes them all) once and for all.

NZB2323 · Post #354 » by **NZB2323** » Sun Apr 28, 2013 12:38 am

Shouldn't Ronda be in the top 100?

Post #355 » by **CPT** » Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:30 am

I think Shogun should be higher, though I guess we are running out of space. Had a crazy peak and his overall record still holds up pretty well.

Cammo101 · Post #356 » by **Cammo101** » Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:42 am

NZB2323 wrote:Shouldn't Ronda be in the top 100?

No.

Cammo101 · Post #357 » by **Cammo101** » Sun Apr 28, 2013 7:10 pm

#12 - Royce Gracie

http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Royce-Gracie-19

The Babe Ruth of MMA, Royce Gracie was the dominate fighter on the early era of the UFC, and MMA in general. He won the UFC 1, UFC 2, and UFC 4 tournaments. He has a career record of 14-2-3, including an 11-1-1 UFC record (with all 11 of those UFC wins coming by submission). Gracie's 11 submissions is still a UFC record to this day. He has notable victories over Kazushi Sakuraba, Dan Severn, Kimo Leopoldo, Patrick Smith, and Ken Shamrock.

Susan · Post #358 » by **Susan** » Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:33 am

Saku > Royce.

Cammo101 · Post #359 » by **Cammo101** » Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:38 am

Susan wrote:Saku > Royce.

They split one win a piece. Royce won 3 UFC tourneys, is a UFC Hall of Famer, and was the greatest fighter in MMA for a good long time. Saku is great, but I don't see how you could realistically put him ahead of Gracie.

Cammo101 · Post #360 » by **Cammo101** » Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:30 am

#11 - BJ "The Prodigy" Penn

http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/BJ-Penn-1307

One of only two fighters in UFC history to hold a title in two different weight classes, BJ Penn is one of MMA's all time greats and the best Lightweight fighter ever. Penn's desire to fight the best took him to 4 different weight classes, but it was at Lightweight where he was undefeated for over 8 years. He has a career record of 16-9-2, and a UFC record of 12-8-2. Penn holds career victories over Takanori Gomi, Kenny Florian, Diego Sanchez, Sean Sherk, Jens Pulver, and Matt Hughes twice.