Bellator General Discussion and Info

Post #561 » by **Headliner** » Fri Aug 2, 2013 10:05 pm

Personally I like it, because those names are the only ones I've heard of. I don't watch the smaller promotions, so getting cards that have one or two fighters from the UFC that I at least know will get me to watch the rest of the card. Without it, I probably won't tune in.

REDDzone · Post #562 » by **REDDzone** » Fri Aug 2, 2013 10:34 pm

I don't have to watch any bellator events to know that there are guys on their roster that I'd rather watch fight than Tito Ortiz.

cowboyronnie · Post #563 » by **cowboyronnie** » Fri Aug 2, 2013 10:50 pm

Shaazzam wrote:ONe positive is we won't have to hear Rogan saying that Tito's cardio will be so good because he trains at big bear.

loooool!

Bernman · Post #564 » by **Bernman** » Sat Aug 3, 2013 12:21 am

Headliner wrote:Personally I like it, because those names are the only ones I've heard of. I don't watch the smaller promotions, so getting cards that have one or two fighters from the UFC that I at least know will get me to watch the rest of the card. Without it, I probably won't tune in.

Well, promotions need patience to build their own stars. It comes from fights like Griffin/Bonnar and the buzz they create from being on a network watched by some people who pass it on to other who didn't see it. Then they'll check it out the next time.

Bellator would have had their Griffin/Bonnar in Chandler/Alvarez, but the event was aired on MTV2, and took place not only on the same night as a UFC but one which included Shogun/Hendo. It was a combo of bad luck and planning to not be able to use that fight as a springboard.

They also got some buzz from the Manny Newton's spinning backfist ko of King Mo, which showed in the following week's ratings, but they backed it up with weak shows afterward so they couldn't build much momentum off it. They further lost momentum greatly from being so hot with weekly events, then ice cold with a 2 and a half month gap, followed by a month plus consecutively. That was more bad planning so they couldn't really build their own stars and in turn fan interest and ratings.

Now it appears that they have given up on trying to build many of their own stars, rather than being patient and introspective about their mistakes.

It's not easy to compete with the UFC, but building your own stars, and putting on aesthetically pleasing fights, is the only way to do it long-term.

We know how too many fights like Tito-Rampage fell companies already. They may draw a little higher ratings/buys in the interim, but long-term it's not a smart business choice because people come away dissatisfied and look at your organization as kind of a farce.

I myself certainly wouldn't buy a PPV in part because of Tito/Rampage. I'd potentially buy it for other fights including fighters who are more in their prime or on the way up, like Chandler/Alvarez II and Newton/Mo II. BTW, I hear that Newton/Mo II for the interim title is one of the fights being talked about for the card. Supposedly Vegh is out with an injury. I don't know if it's a "T.J. Grant type" injury or a real one though.

SDM · Post #565 » by **SDM** » Thu Aug 8, 2013 1:25 pm

Bellator just snatched up three more Wolfslair guys, including Peter Graham (who I thought was retired, but apparently not).

REDDzone · Post #566 » by **REDDzone** » Thu Aug 8, 2013 3:12 pm

Did you guys see where Rebney took a shot at the ufc/Sonnen. Talked about how you have to earn your title shot in bellator, as opposed to losing two fights in a row and then "barking" your way to a 205 title shot. lol

Cammo101 · Post #567 » by **Cammo101** » Thu Aug 8, 2013 4:59 pm

REDDzone wrote:Did you guys see where Rebney took a shot at the ufc/Sonnen. Talked about how you have to earn your title shot in bellator, as opposed to losing two fights in a row and then "barking" your way to a 205 title shot. lol

While what he says is true, we are talking about the same guy who completely changed his tourney format just to make it easier for King Mo to get a title shot. Promoters will do what they have to to put on the fights people want to see. It ain't rocket science.

REDDzone · Post #568 » by **REDDzone** » Thu Aug 8, 2013 5:38 pm

Cammo101 wrote:While what he says is true, we are talking about the same guy who completely changed his tourney format just to make it easier for King Mo to get a title shot. Promoters will do what they have to to put on the fights people want to see. It ain't rocket science.

Yea that was my thought while reading it as well. Although I will say I think bellator not randomizing their tournaments is less annoying than several fighters coming off losses getting title shots.

Post #569 » by **Shaazzam** » Thu Aug 8, 2013 5:58 pm

REDDzone wrote:Did you guys see where Rebney took a shot at the ufc/Sonnen. Talked about how you have to earn your title shot in bellator, as opposed to losing two fights in a row and then "barking" your way to a 205 title shot. lol

the sad thing is Sonnen might sell more PPV buys then bellator ever will

REDDzone · Post #570 » by **REDDzone** » Thu Aug 8, 2013 6:06 pm

Shaazzam wrote:
REDDzone wrote:Did you guys see where Rebney took a shot at the ufc/Sonnen. Talked about how you have to earn your title shot in bellator, as opposed to losing two fights in a row and then "barking" your way to a 205 title shot. lol

the sad thing is Sonnen might sell more PPV buys then bellator ever will

Hm idk, I heard after Rampage, bellator is going to set up Tito/Shamrock IIII.

Cammo101 · Post #571 » by **Cammo101** » Thu Aug 8, 2013 9:19 pm

REDDzone wrote:
Cammo101 wrote:While what he says is true, we are talking about the same guy who completely changed his tourney format just to make it easier for King Mo to get a title shot. Promoters will do what they have to to put on the fights people want to see. It ain't rocket science.

Yea that was my thought while reading it as well. Although I will say I think bellator not randomizing their tournaments is less annoying than several fighters coming off losses getting title shots.

I didn't mean the easy matchups for King Mo as much as I meant them making the tourney shorter just so he has an easier road to the top. Both both have merit.

Bernman · Post #572 » by **Bernman** » Thu Aug 8, 2013 11:04 pm

Cammo101 wrote:
REDDzone wrote:
Cammo101 wrote:While what he says is true, we are talking about the same guy who completely changed his tourney format just to make it easier for King Mo to get a title shot. Promoters will do what they have to to put on the fights people want to see. It ain't rocket science.

Yea that was my thought while reading it as well. Although I will say I think bellator not randomizing their tournaments is less annoying than several fighters coming off losses getting title shots.

I didn't mean the easy matchups for King Mo as much as I meant them making the tourney shorter just so he has an easier road to the top. Both both have merit.

Na, only the accusation of throwing softballs at Mo has merit. They didn't shorten the tourneys for Mo. They needed to shorten tourneys to get multiple ones in during the summer series, and it makes sense for the heavier divisions where they have less depth anyway.

That said, facing pushovers is not much better than coming straight off a loss like Sonnen. However, at least Mo wasn't really getting the nod over someone more deserving. I don't remember the LHW title picture at the time, but I'm sure there were at least 10 guys who should have gotten it ahead of Sonnen.

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Bellator reality show news - it's starting to tank in the ratings. That was after building up momentum during the prelims where the shows were nearly all fights. When they settled into the reality format, it proved to be too similar to TUF with the house interaction. I rolled my eyes when the cameras started following them around in the house. Bjorn forecasted a documentary style show when it was first announced, but when Viacom tried to get their influence in, they were going to try to reinvent the wheel as in their minds they were originally to credit for the UFC's rise. Say what you want about Bjorn's character, but he's a smart guy, and Bellator would still be on the rise as a result w/out Viacom's meddling. He got it, they don't.

REDDzone · Post #573 » by **REDDzone** » Fri Aug 9, 2013 1:45 am

Bernman wrote:Na, only the accusation of throwing softballs at Mo has merit. They didn't shorten the tourneys for Mo. They needed to shorten tourneys to get multiple ones in during the summer series, and it makes sense for the heavier divisions where they have less depth anyway.

That said, facing pushovers is not much better than coming straight off a loss like Sonnen. However, at least Mo wasn't really getting the nod over someone more deserving. I don't remember the LHW title picture at the time, but I'm sure there were at least 10 guys who should have gotten it ahead of Sonnen.

Yea idk. I guess when it comes to beating pushovers, at least you actually have to...beat the pushover. As opposed to Sonnening/Tateing your way to a title shot.

The extreme vast majority of people don't care either way though. It is the rare nerd like me who wants to see as complete a meritocracy as possible.

SDM · Post #574 » by **SDM** » Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:08 pm

Alvarez situation resolved... new 8 fight deal and he will be fighting Chandler on the PPV.

REDDzone · Post #575 » by **REDDzone** » Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:24 pm

SDM wrote:Alvarez situation resolved... new 8 fight deal and he will be fighting Chandler on the PPV.

I'd honestly be more happy for bellator if the whole "altering the contract" thing didn't happen. Just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Regardless, Alvarez/Chandler should be good. Alvarez looked great in his last few fights, hopefully he won't end up being on the shelf for too terribly long. Chandler is improving, and if Alvarez is going to get him, my feeling is that he's going to need to get him soon.

Cammo101 · Post #576 » by **Cammo101** » Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:56 pm

REDDzone wrote:I'd honestly be more happy for bellator if the whole "altering the contract" thing didn't happen. Just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

What leaves a bad taste in my mouth is Bellator saying over and over that "Title shots are earned, not given" and then Alvarez is just given a title shot. I am more than happy this fight is happening, but it seems like with each passing day Bellator is crapping on their whole ideal in the quest for a short term money grab.

REDDzone · Post #577 » by **REDDzone** » Tue Aug 13, 2013 4:12 pm

Cammo101 wrote:What leaves a bad taste in my mouth is Bellator saying over and over that "Title shots are earned, not given" and then Alvarez is just given a title shot. I am more than happy this fight is happening, but it seems like with each passing day Bellator is crapping on their whole ideal in the quest for a short term money grab.

Dude, you are the guy who was defending the ufc to me when I criticized them for giving guys (specifically Sonnen and then later on Tate) a title shot coming off losses, now you are criticizing bellator for giving Alvarez a shot coming off a title reign, a competitive loss to a top lw, and then two quick finishes over Aoki and Pitbull?

Come on. This is not just "giving" him a shot. See Sonnen and Tate getting brutally finished and then handed title shots for examples of that.

Cammo101 · Post #578 » by **Cammo101** » Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:59 pm

REDDzone wrote:
Cammo101 wrote:What leaves a bad taste in my mouth is Bellator saying over and over that "Title shots are earned, not given" and then Alvarez is just given a title shot. I am more than happy this fight is happening, but it seems like with each passing day Bellator is crapping on their whole ideal in the quest for a short term money grab.

Dude, you are the guy who was defending the ufc to me when I criticized them for giving guys (specifically Sonnen and then later on Tate) a title shot coming off losses, now you are criticizing bellator for giving Alvarez a shot coming off a title reign, a competitive loss to a top lw, and then two quick finishes over Aoki and Pitbull?

Come on. This is not just "giving" him a shot. See Sonnen and Tate getting brutally finished and then handed title shots for examples of that.

No, I am totally fine with the fight. I can't wait to see it. I am criticizing them for saying one thing and doing another...repeatedly.

Bellator can give title shots however they want, just don't tell me one thing and do another.

REDDzone · Post #579 » by **REDDzone** » Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:09 pm

What are they telling you that isn't coming true here? They said they don't give shots away, and they aren't. Eddie has nice wins/finishes against good fighters and deserves the shot as much as anyone. If your issue is skipping the tournament, they have been transparent since Eddie signed the ufc offer sheet that if he returns to bellator he will get the shot at Chandler. That has been known for almost a year now.

Bellator is damned if they do damned if they don't here. People want to jump on them for this, but if they made Eddie go through the tournament then people would be saying "oh f the tourney and give us the fight we want already!". And yes a lot of those people would be the same criticizing for either decision.

If people want something to complain about bellator for, there is plentyyyy of it without having to point to giving us a rematch of one of the greatest fights ever. How about the fact that these guys are on the undercard to a garbage fight like Rampage vs Tito? Those guys have won a combined like 3 of their last 10 fights.

Cammo101 · Post #580 » by **Cammo101** » Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:25 pm

It is not just this. It just seems with every day they are going back on how they built their company and what their ideal is.

"You have to earn your title shot through a tourney"...nevermind.

"We aren't interested in UFC retreads"...nevermind.

I am critical of Bellator because I really like Bellator and want them to succeed. And they looked for a good long time like they could. But, ever since they went to Viacom, they look like just another Affliction or Elite XC that is doomed to fail sooner than later.