UFC 251 Fight Island: Masvidal v. Usman

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Re: UFC 251 Fight Island: Masvidal v. Usman 

Post#61 » by aggerrard » Sat Jul 11, 2020 8:15 pm

Susan wrote:
cowboyronnie wrote:Masvidal, candidly, told a story about having heard Burns fell out where he suggested to his dad that he might jump in. His dad said, "you're not in that kind of shape." There was no gamesmanship in that statement, he wasn't nesting a false fact deep into a story about his emotional reaction to Burns' dropout.


It's gamemanship.

Overall Usman went from a VERY comfortable fight against his old training partner with a new camp to a brand new fight against a dynamic striker who's fight camp just gameplanned for Usman a few months ago and was thinking about Usman a few weeks ago when they were almost the main event.

-Usman hasn't faced a kickboxer like Jorge ever, his most recent wins were over Colby (basic pressure boxing + wrestling mix and their fight was a kickboxing match), Woodley (explosive counter puncher who has been pretty bleh since winning the belt), RDA (decent standup but nothing overwhelming) and Maia (not a standup fighter). Usman has had a good road for his style in the past few fights.
-Usman needs to gameplan to close the distance IMO. Jorge has great bodykicks and Usman's GNP is NOT dynamic, Usman's mat returns are great but I think Jorge has enough counter wrestling to get away from this and if he does get taken down, he's not going to be overwhelmed there.
-There's a big technical advantage in the standup department for Jorge and literally zero time for Usman to prepare. He literally took the fight and got on the plane. No drilling, no game-planning and no coaching can really be done in that time because they had to focus on weight cutting.

This is pure chaos for Usman. New coach, new opponent, no gameplanning, fighting at 8AM in the **** desert against a guy who's the best striker you've ever faced.

I put money on Jorge winning by KO in either the 3rd, 4th or 5th rounds or a decision. All of them have crazy odds but I could see it happening.

Funny how i see it the opposite. Masvidal is IMO a better stylistic matchup for Usman. Burns is stronger, better wrestler and a better grappler than Masvidal. At the same time Burns is improving his standup game and has shown knockout power. I mainly consider Masvidal a threat in the stand up game. I can see Masvidal winning by KO - but no way he is winning a decision. Usman toyed with Woodley and Woodley are a better wrestler than Masvidal - Maia took Masvidal down four times and Woodley stopped all the takedowns from Maia with ease. Usman are crazy strong - Masvidal wont be able to stop the takedowns, but he will be a danger for all 25 minutes and are lethal in the clinch aswell. I see two scenarios. Masvidal by KO or Usman by decision - and with Usman dominating every second until the KO or for all 25 minutes. I have it 65/35 for Usman.
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Re: UFC 251 Fight Island: Masvidal v. Usman 

Post#62 » by Susan » Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:46 pm

aggerrard wrote:
Susan wrote:
cowboyronnie wrote:Masvidal, candidly, told a story about having heard Burns fell out where he suggested to his dad that he might jump in. His dad said, "you're not in that kind of shape." There was no gamesmanship in that statement, he wasn't nesting a false fact deep into a story about his emotional reaction to Burns' dropout.


It's gamemanship.

Overall Usman went from a VERY comfortable fight against his old training partner with a new camp to a brand new fight against a dynamic striker who's fight camp just gameplanned for Usman a few months ago and was thinking about Usman a few weeks ago when they were almost the main event.

-Usman hasn't faced a kickboxer like Jorge ever, his most recent wins were over Colby (basic pressure boxing + wrestling mix and their fight was a kickboxing match), Woodley (explosive counter puncher who has been pretty bleh since winning the belt), RDA (decent standup but nothing overwhelming) and Maia (not a standup fighter). Usman has had a good road for his style in the past few fights.
-Usman needs to gameplan to close the distance IMO. Jorge has great bodykicks and Usman's GNP is NOT dynamic, Usman's mat returns are great but I think Jorge has enough counter wrestling to get away from this and if he does get taken down, he's not going to be overwhelmed there.
-There's a big technical advantage in the standup department for Jorge and literally zero time for Usman to prepare. He literally took the fight and got on the plane. No drilling, no game-planning and no coaching can really be done in that time because they had to focus on weight cutting.

This is pure chaos for Usman. New coach, new opponent, no gameplanning, fighting at 8AM in the **** desert against a guy who's the best striker you've ever faced.

I put money on Jorge winning by KO in either the 3rd, 4th or 5th rounds or a decision. All of them have crazy odds but I could see it happening.

Funny how i see it the opposite. Masvidal is IMO a better stylistic matchup for Usman. Burns is stronger, better wrestler and a better grappler than Masvidal. At the same time Burns is improving his standup game and has shown knockout power. I mainly consider Masvidal a threat in the stand up game. I can see Masvidal winning by KO - but no way he is winning a decision. Usman toyed with Woodley and Woodley are a better wrestler than Masvidal - Maia took Masvidal down four times and Woodley stopped all the takedowns from Maia with ease. Usman are crazy strong - Masvidal wont be able to stop the takedowns, but he will be a danger for all 25 minutes and are lethal in the clinch aswell. I see two scenarios. Masvidal by KO or Usman by decision - and with Usman dominating every second until the KO or for all 25 minutes. I have it 65/35 for Usman.


Woodley had some BAD defensive wrestling in that fight. No doubt Woodley is a better offensive wrestler than Jorge but defensively he was bad and his distance management is dreadful. Usman overwhelmed him with his striking pressure and then used that pressure to overwhelm him with the wrestling. Woodley was a perfect match for Usman (and Colby).

Maia has/had great offensive wrestling early on in his WW career and that fight was pretty freaking close and if it were a 5 rounder, Jorge was going to win that fight based on how the 3rd round went.

There's no doubt that Usman is going to score a few TDs early in this fight but Jorge is going to make him work for them. By round three, he's going to struggle to get those TDs because he's going to be gassed more than Jorge and Jorge is going to start to overwhelm him with his striking.

Usman's top game isn't better than Maia's. Jorge's bottom game is better than Woodley's as is his distance management and he's a technical striker who will be able to lay the hurt on Usman in the 3rd, 4th and 5th rounds.
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Re: UFC 251 Fight Island: Masvidal v. Usman 

Post#63 » by AirCanadaMouse » Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:45 pm

Honestly, I came to realize I hate seeing KO’s on the prelims because I know these guys get paid peanuts. Just hard to watch for me now.


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UFC 251 Fight Island: Masvidal v. Usman 

Post#64 » by AirCanadaMouse » Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:09 pm

You really notice a lack of feints in low tier WMMA, it’s always one punch then reset. That’s honestly why it gets so bad sometimes. It’s not that easy in combat sports, to open up your opponent, you need to feint. Basics.

Don’t get me started on the head and arm throws.


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Re: UFC 251 Fight Island: Masvidal v. Usman 

Post#65 » by cowboyronnie » Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:55 pm

Susan wrote:
cowboyronnie wrote:Masvidal, candidly, told a story about having heard Burns fell out where he suggested to his dad that he might jump in. His dad said, "you're not in that kind of shape." There was no gamesmanship in that statement, he wasn't nesting a false fact deep into a story about his emotional reaction to Burns' dropout.


It's gamemanship.


No way Jorge is Machiavellian enough to nest that into the story. He's just not going to be in 5 round shape, especially when it comes to wrestling. Usman grinds out a win, I think.

I hear the point about this being 8:00AM and in a desert. That might not **** with Jorge in the same way it does a collegiate wrestler, who is surely obsessed with routine and predictability.

Is Jorge going to throw body kicks against a wrestler?
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Re: UFC 251 Fight Island: Masvidal v. Usman 

Post#66 » by aggerrard » Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:04 am

Susan wrote:
aggerrard wrote:
Susan wrote:
It's gamemanship.

Overall Usman went from a VERY comfortable fight against his old training partner with a new camp to a brand new fight against a dynamic striker who's fight camp just gameplanned for Usman a few months ago and was thinking about Usman a few weeks ago when they were almost the main event.

-Usman hasn't faced a kickboxer like Jorge ever, his most recent wins were over Colby (basic pressure boxing + wrestling mix and their fight was a kickboxing match), Woodley (explosive counter puncher who has been pretty bleh since winning the belt), RDA (decent standup but nothing overwhelming) and Maia (not a standup fighter). Usman has had a good road for his style in the past few fights.
-Usman needs to gameplan to close the distance IMO. Jorge has great bodykicks and Usman's GNP is NOT dynamic, Usman's mat returns are great but I think Jorge has enough counter wrestling to get away from this and if he does get taken down, he's not going to be overwhelmed there.
-There's a big technical advantage in the standup department for Jorge and literally zero time for Usman to prepare. He literally took the fight and got on the plane. No drilling, no game-planning and no coaching can really be done in that time because they had to focus on weight cutting.

This is pure chaos for Usman. New coach, new opponent, no gameplanning, fighting at 8AM in the **** desert against a guy who's the best striker you've ever faced.

I put money on Jorge winning by KO in either the 3rd, 4th or 5th rounds or a decision. All of them have crazy odds but I could see it happening.

Funny how i see it the opposite. Masvidal is IMO a better stylistic matchup for Usman. Burns is stronger, better wrestler and a better grappler than Masvidal. At the same time Burns is improving his standup game and has shown knockout power. I mainly consider Masvidal a threat in the stand up game. I can see Masvidal winning by KO - but no way he is winning a decision. Usman toyed with Woodley and Woodley are a better wrestler than Masvidal - Maia took Masvidal down four times and Woodley stopped all the takedowns from Maia with ease. Usman are crazy strong - Masvidal wont be able to stop the takedowns, but he will be a danger for all 25 minutes and are lethal in the clinch aswell. I see two scenarios. Masvidal by KO or Usman by decision - and with Usman dominating every second until the KO or for all 25 minutes. I have it 65/35 for Usman.


Woodley had some BAD defensive wrestling in that fight. No doubt Woodley is a better offensive wrestler than Jorge but defensively he was bad and his distance management is dreadful. Usman overwhelmed him with his striking pressure and then used that pressure to overwhelm him with the wrestling. Woodley was a perfect match for Usman (and Colby).

Maia has/had great offensive wrestling early on in his WW career and that fight was pretty freaking close and if it were a 5 rounder, Jorge was going to win that fight based on how the 3rd round went.

There's no doubt that Usman is going to score a few TDs early in this fight but Jorge is going to make him work for them. By round three, he's going to struggle to get those TDs because he's going to be gassed more than Jorge and Jorge is going to start to overwhelm him with his striking.

Usman's top game isn't better than Maia's. Jorge's bottom game is better than Woodley's as is his distance management and he's a technical striker who will be able to lay the hurt on Usman in the 3rd, 4th and 5th rounds.

The Maia fight wasn't really close though. And i think you might remember the Masvidal v Maia fight wrong. Masvidals best round were the 2nd, which you could argue he won. He lost the 1st and the 3rd clear - the final 3 minutes or so of the 3rs round was Maia on the back of Masvidal looking for a submission. So based on the 3rd round, Maia would've won even more convingcingly if it was i 5 rounder.

And as for the statement with Maia, he faced Woodley 2 month after he fought Masvidal - so i don't see the argument that his offensive wrestling should've gone that much worse in 2 month. Not saying Masvidal cant't win, but his wrestling isn't at the same level as Woodleys, and Usman dominated him. But i see your argument with the distance management - Masvidal is a bigger threat when closing the distance on him and in the clinch than Woodley.

Usman also proven to be a cardio machine. I see Masvidals best shot being a KO in the first 3 rounds. I don't think he will be any more fresh than Usman late in the fight, as he aswell will have to spend energy to fight of Usman. Going to be an exiting fight - i either see a KO from Masvidal or a complete domination from Usman - the KO from Masvidal might come so quickly we don't get to see Usmans wrestling. But i do see Usman dominating with his wrestling until a finish happens or the final round ends.
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Re: UFC 251 Fight Island: Masvidal v. Usman 

Post#67 » by aggerrard » Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:23 am

And IMO, if he wins, this willl be Masvidals first top tier win in the UFC.
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Re: UFC 251 Fight Island: Masvidal v. Usman 

Post#68 » by aggerrard » Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:36 am

I'm the least confident in picking fights come fight night. I have the two champs as slight favorites and Yan vs Aldo as 50/50. Also looking forward to see Rose back - hopefully she doesn't fate as much and as quickly as she did the last fight vs Andrade. If she wins she should get the next shot at Zhang. Paige vs Ribas will be exiting for other reasons... (.)(.)
Jiří Procházka (copy-paste, lol) also making his UFC debut - great striking, fast hands and powerful. Oezdemir is a tough gatekeeper though for the young up and coming fighters. Oezdemir is a moderate favorite and i wouldn't be surprised if he beats another prospect.
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Re: UFC 251 Fight Island: Masvidal v. Usman 

Post#69 » by Dupp » Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:45 am

Wow two points
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Re: UFC 251 Fight Island: Masvidal v. Usman 

Post#70 » by aggerrard » Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:49 am

Dupp wrote:Wow two points

Santos milking it aswell. But two knees to the cup and a blatant knee to a downed opponent - fair to take two points, three fouls within 2-3 minutes.
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Re: UFC 251 Fight Island: Masvidal v. Usman 

Post#71 » by Dupp » Sun Jul 12, 2020 1:05 am

aggerrard wrote:
Dupp wrote:Wow two points

Santos milking it aswell. But two knees to the cup and a blatant knee to a downed opponent - fair to take two points, three fouls within 2-3 minutes.



And an eye poke. It was deserved.
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Re: UFC 251 Fight Island: Masvidal v. Usman 

Post#72 » by Dupp » Sun Jul 12, 2020 1:44 am

This guy is a strange fighter
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Re: UFC 251 Fight Island: Masvidal v. Usman 

Post#73 » by aggerrard » Sun Jul 12, 2020 1:49 am

New 205lb prospect.
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Re: UFC 251 Fight Island: Masvidal v. Usman 

Post#74 » by Dupp » Sun Jul 12, 2020 1:50 am

But he gets the knockout. Weird fighter
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Re: UFC 251 Fight Island: Masvidal v. Usman 

Post#75 » by aggerrard » Sun Jul 12, 2020 1:51 am

Dupp wrote:But he gets the knockout. Weird fighter

Ferguson level weirdness. First fighter to knockout Oezdemir - impressive.
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Re: UFC 251 Fight Island: Masvidal v. Usman 

Post#76 » by Dupp » Sun Jul 12, 2020 1:53 am

Dude kinda looks like Chris Hemsworth
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Re: UFC 251 Fight Island: Masvidal v. Usman 

Post#77 » by aggerrard » Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:08 am

Someone tell Anik it isn't november yet - out here rocking the movember moustache in July.
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Re: UFC 251 Fight Island: Masvidal v. Usman 

Post#78 » by Dupp » Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:33 am

Izzys hair is not good
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Re: UFC 251 Fight Island: Masvidal v. Usman 

Post#79 » by Duke4life831 » Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:36 am

PVZ is not a high level fighter at all. She shouldn't even go to Belator, she should just hang it up and focus on the modeling and public gigs.
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Re: UFC 251 Fight Island: Masvidal v. Usman 

Post#80 » by Dupp » Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:50 am

Rose has great footwork. The skill level in this fight is so much better than the last one

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