GSP - a cheater?

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GSP - a cheater? 

Post#1 » by Wade3Iverson » Sat Jun 19, 2010 10:39 pm

GSP is one of my favorite fighters but what do you think of the GSP cheating allegations? If you haven't heard....

1) HGH/Steroid use

-Koscheck and BJ Penn said or implied he used them

-HGH use leads to gynecomastia -- puffy nipples...

Early GSP
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GSP Now (puffier nipples)
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-HGH also leads to internal organs growing which people have noticed with his bulging abs

2) Greasing

--at least 5 or so of his opponents have complained about GSP being greasy

-Watch this video
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Rp8dMLdO9M&feature=related[/youtube]

-People also allege that he puts on some sort of lotion or baby oil before the fight (even days before) so when he sweats it becomes a greasy sort of sweat.



I'm not saying I agree with any of it but anyone got thoughts on the matter?
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Re: GSP - a cheater? 

Post#2 » by Nemesis21 » Sat Jun 19, 2010 10:48 pm

^ Could be possible. I'm not sure if GSP has used steroids, but the vaseline/greasing could be very possible.

Fighters I think have used Steroids,

Brock( not saying he used while in UFC, def when he was younger, and when he was in WWE)
Tito
Alves
Ken Shamrock(we all know he did)
Bob Sapp
Lashley
Coleman
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Re: GSP - a cheater? 

Post#3 » by Wade3Iverson » Sat Jun 19, 2010 11:01 pm

^^^agreed with most of those. There have been some notable that have been caught including Tim Sylvia, Sean Sherk, Josh Barnett, Nate MarQuardt, Vitor Belfort, Stephan Bonnar, Royce Gracie, Chris Leben, etc.
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Re: GSP - a cheater? 

Post#4 » by Nemesis21 » Sat Jun 19, 2010 11:22 pm

Wade3Iverson wrote:^^^agreed with most of those. There have been some notable that have been caught including Tim Sylvia, Sean Sherk, Josh Barnett, Nate MarQuardt, Vitor Belfort, Stephan Bonnar, Royce Gracie, Chris Leben, etc.



Good point, forgot about half of those you mentioned.^ Didn't know Bonnar used.
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Re: GSP - a cheater? 

Post#5 » by Mike Hunt » Sun Jun 20, 2010 3:30 am

The dude who was suspended for not letting go of an ankle lock (I think it was on Drwall) has to be juicing. I think other than him, Sherk was certainly the most obvious user (even before getting caught). I wouldn't be surprised if 75% of MMA fighters have used... Overeem is a guy that's been caught. I certainly believe Uriah Faber used too.
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Re: GSP - a cheater? 

Post#6 » by cowboyronnie » Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:06 am

Why Faber and Sherk??? Cos they're ripped? That's dumb. Those guys have been tested a lot and always passed.

Alves was busted for diuretics and ATT is well known for steroid use. That's no leap.

GSP has gyno. But I would question whether he ever didn't - whether it comes and goes or is just part of his physique. It could just be something he's lived with from adolescence. His posture is different in each of the pictures you posted and he may have just done push-ups or something in the first. It's not terrible gyno, if his pecs are pulled tight it may not be visible. IDK. I would be crushed if GSP juices. And he's been tested a dozen or so times now, without a positive.
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Re: GSP - a cheater? 

Post#7 » by Posey H8er » Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:10 am

Sherk did test positive for steroids and was suspended for it. Faber as far as I know is clean.
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Re: GSP - a cheater? 

Post#8 » by cowboyronnie » Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:22 am

oh, you're right. I forgot. there was some legit contention about that result, though - it wasn't extraordinarily high for an athlete and he had been unknowingly taking a joint lube supplement with testosterone in it.

I actually believe his denial.
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Re: GSP - a cheater? 

Post#9 » by El Hardee » Mon Jun 21, 2010 8:21 pm

Dude the UFC test after every fight, and suspends accordingly, if GSP hasnt been caught there is no story. As for the greasing that was some BS, but was BJ really gonna beat GSP? Probably not ,and BJ is my fav fighter, but GSP is waaay too much at WW for BJ.
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Re: GSP - a cheater? 

Post#10 » by j127 » Thu Jul 1, 2010 1:19 am

This is an outrage. If GSP tests positive for Vaseline, he won't be my favourite fighter anymore.
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Re: GSP - a cheater? 

Post#11 » by The Flying Gent » Thu Jul 1, 2010 3:52 am

The vaseline thing was an inconsequential accident by a rookie corner man. No one is so dumb as to grease right in the middle of a fight.

And considering that GSP has had basically the exact same physique since he was a teenager (seriously, go watch his first pro fight on youtube) and is one of the biggest proponents for Olympic style blood testing in MMA, i'd say you have no place slandering his name. So my thoughts on the matter are that this is a stupid thread.
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Re: GSP - a cheater? 

Post#12 » by TheRaptorTruth » Thu Jul 15, 2010 10:20 pm

if this is true then his cornerman is a (Please Use More Appropriate Word).
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Re: GSP - a cheater? 

Post#13 » by SDM » Fri Jul 16, 2010 2:15 pm

Greasing didn't help GSP punch Penn in the face repeatedly.

As for steroids, I don't buy it. It's totally possible that GSP could have used or is using them, but it seems out of character for such a high-energy guy who lives to push himself. It's cheap and I don't buy it.

He's not a cheater. He's just so good that inferior, egomaniacal fighters have to behave like small children to justify the beatings he hands out like candy.
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Re: GSP - a cheater? 

Post#14 » by funkatron101 » Fri Jul 16, 2010 3:38 pm

A few years ago, I wrote a blog about steroids in MMA and how I think there is a place for them in sports.

An MMA fighter (I won't say who, but he is well known) replied in private and he was pretty candid about it. He said steroids are common in MMA. He of course didn't name names, but whatever list you come up with, you should double or triple it.

It's hard to accept because we tend to look at these guys with "hero glasses" and steroids are considered such an evil and damaging element to sports. The truth isn't so black and white.
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Re: GSP - a cheater? 

Post#15 » by cowboyronnie » Fri Jul 16, 2010 10:47 pm

"Common", how? That's interesting. ^^^ Do fighters on his team use them openly (with coaches/partners)?

The truth is black and white. You're cheating - breaking the rules - if you're taking steroids.
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Re: GSP - a cheater? 

Post#16 » by funkatron101 » Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:49 am

cowboyronnie wrote:"Common", how? That's interesting. ^^^ Do fighters on his team use them openly (with coaches/partners)?

The truth is black and white. You're cheating - breaking the rules - if you're taking steroids.

I didn't push any further. He said that he doesn't do it, but has seen it. Which lead me to believe that he has seen it within his camp. I appreciated his honesty and realized that even the little that he did say, it could compromise his career a bit. As silly as it sounds, I feel a bit reserved even sharing this much, even if there are no real juicy details to tie it to anyone specific.

I'll say that steroids are used for all sorts of conditions and ailments and are regularly prescribed to civilians. Hell my Dad took steroids for psoriasis. I guess that's kind of the gray area I am referring to. Athletes don't have the same privileges because of abuse. It's a shame that it has to be a zero tolerance policy.

For example, Steroids can help heal isolated muscle injuries much quicker. In sports, time is essential. In MMA it is vital. These guys spend months training, spending a lot of income for their one big payday. One injury can derail that, and really put them in financial struggle. Here is a letter from Hermes Franca after the positive result.

"In the next few days, the results from the California Commission will be released. The tests will show that I had a "banned substance" in my system.

I would like to apologize to my fans, the UFC, my students and family. I offer only an explanation and not an excuse. I made a decision during a difficult time in my training for the fight that I regret.

About 8 weeks out from the fight, I badly injured my ankle during a training session. For the following week I had rested it, rehabbed it and tried to work around the injury. It was obvious that I could not train as required.

I contacted the UFC and explained my injury and how I could not possibly train to the level I thought I would need in order to be properly prepared for my fight. I asked the UFC if we could push the fight out to the following UFC with the chance that it could happen. They explained that they could not do that and that the card had been set and it isnt as easy as just moving around a fight. I totally understood their position. They asked me to keep them informed should I not be able to fight.

I had not fought for 5 months. Fighting is literally how I put food on my wife and childs table and how I pay my bills. As a fighter though, even at this level, I live a simple life and I literally live from fight to fight. Not getting a paycheck for another few months and losing my chance to fight Sean for the title was overpowering. Fighting is the life I chose and I love it.

As a lightweight fighter, our purses are comparatively small. The public sees the payouts. As lightweights, we do not pull down the money anything near the bigger guys. Its just the way it is. I think Sean fought and defended his title for less than $30,000. Its no ones fault, its just the market. I love the sport, I love the people in the sport.

At this point I was desperate and needed anything I could to get my injury as close to healing as possible and be able to recover from the daily training regimen I was going through. I made the shortsighted choice to hopefully accelerate the healing process and allow me to keep training. Under the pressure of literally not being able to pay next months bills I made a choice. I had to fight and did whatever I could to do so.

I hope my fans, students, the UFC and the public accept my sincere apology. Whatever punishment is dictated by the California Athletic Commission I will understand. I would like to get through this very difficult time and the times ahead and get back to fighting. All the best to my fans and much thanks to my family and friends that continue to support me during these times.

--Hermes Franca"

Franca cheated, no question. But he didn't dispute it like Sherk did. He didn't make outlandish claims of "supplements" containing these steroids without his knowledge. He made a mistake. One that bit him in the ass and made him lose far more than he anticipated. Was the ankle injury actually repaired with the self medication? I don't know. But I do believe that he believed it, and I have no doubts that either teammates, coaches, or both made the suggestion while he was struggling with the uncertainty.

All in all I think it is more a flaw in the way fighters are paid, than the fact that steroids should be allowed, but I guess I can sympathize in cases like this over cases like Kimo Leopoldo looking to beef himself up to appear more bad ass.
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Re: GSP - a cheater? 

Post#17 » by cowboyronnie » Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:05 pm

I've got sympathy for the Franca case, no question. But, as you say, the main issue here isn't the inability to do therapeutic steroids. We're sympathetic because the pay-scale is so pathetic.

Steroids, even when prescribed by doctors, can be dangerous. I have 'a friend' who took oral, pharmaceutical steroids and flipped his **** ****. He was an emotional wreck. My friend won't be doing them again. Having the pounding need to beat-off 5 times a day didn't leave much chance for the gym anyways.
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Re: GSP - a cheater? 

Post#18 » by damo[23] » Sat Jul 17, 2010 10:40 pm

El Hardee wrote:Dude the UFC test after every fight, and suspends accordingly, if GSP hasnt been caught there is no story. As for the greasing that was some BS, but was BJ really gonna beat GSP? Probably not ,and BJ is my fav fighter, but GSP is waaay too much at WW for BJ.


Generally there is a "rotation" they do with the intention of avoiding detection - which is why the Olympics use that funky blood testing system.

Its like if you know something stays in your system for 4 weeks, you take it 5 weeks before your blood test for example.

Not to say that I accuse anyone of taking steroids, there are a few that I suspect, GSP I can't say is someone that I do, but I've heard a lot of talk/interviews in the past about it, and the talk of how they do the interval/rotations on steroids (not just for MMA but other sports as well).
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Re: GSP - a cheater? 

Post#19 » by funkatron101 » Mon Jul 19, 2010 4:14 pm

cowboyronnie wrote:I've got sympathy for the Franca case, no question. But, as you say, the main issue here isn't the inability to do therapeutic steroids. We're sympathetic because the pay-scale is so pathetic.

Some will say they get paid crap, while others scoff and say they would love to make that kind of money. It's all relative I suppose.

It sounds like these guys get paid in full after each fight, which I can only imagine can put a strain on them financially. If my work paid me $30,000 three times a year I would at first be ecstatic, but would probably have a tougher time budgeting everything and I would blow through more than I should. My standard of living would be set at that amount, and if I missed one of those payments, it would really be stressful.

I think this is a big reason to support a fighter's union. It could help establish options like bi-weekly payments, retirement funds and injury compensation. Right now it sounds like "Uncle Dana" helps certain guys out on a case-by-case basis, but that seems really informal and something that should not be relied on.

Sorry for veering off-topic but I think this issue and steroids often over-lap. I think Stephen Bonner got busted under similar circumstances as Franca and I would guess that many that do resort to steroid use do so out of this fear of losing their payout. As they say, no one is 100% coming into their fight.
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