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So Fedor was number 1 for God knows how long, lost once being caught in a Triangle/Armbar by a top flight BJJ guy, and dropped to number 4 I believe. Now he just got beat and he's 8th? Lesnar gets destroyed by Cain and he's still number 2? doesn't makes sense. What are your top 10 HW rankings? Mine....

1. Cain
2. Overeem
3. Werdum
4. Brock
5. Silva
6. Fedor
7. JDS
8. Carwin
9. Mir
10. Nog/Nelson

Sherdog's rankings are always awful, but I have Fedor #8 as well and have no problem with him at that spot. Lesnar lost to the #1 HW, Fedor lost to 2 guys who were outside the top 10. Yes, Lesnar at #2 is a joke, but there is a difference between the guy Lesnar lost to, and the guys Fedor lost to. IMO it should be...


1. Cain Velasquez
2. Fabricio Werdum
3. Junior dos Santos
4. Brock Lesnar
5. Alistair Overeem
6. Antonio Silva
7. Shane Carwin
8. Fedor Emelianenko
9. Frank Mir
10. Josh Barnett

Fedor wins a few, he will be right back in the top 5. There is always turnover at the top because the best guys always fight each other.

^ Yeah I agree, but at the time Cain wasn't number 1, and also, the matter of which Cain won versus how Fedor lost to Werdum, Cain DOMINATED AND DESTROYED him. Wedrum just sort got lucky (for lack of a better term) on Fedor. I fully believe, as most prolly due, in a rematch Fedor wins. I just feel that for so many years dominance, I think Fedor has been moved down a little much. More justified now after the loss to Silva, but keep it mind that Silva out weighed him by 60 pounds LOL, tough for anyone to overcome.

FWIW I have no dog in the fight at all, I'm not a huge Fedor fan or anything.

Starkiller wrote:^ Yeah I agree, but at the time Cain wasn't number 1, and also, the matter of which Cain won versus how Fedor lost to Werdum, Cain DOMINATED AND DESTROYED him. Wedrum just sort got lucky (for lack of a better term) on Fedor. I fully believe, as most prolly due, in a rematch Fedor wins. I just feel that for so many years dominance, I think Fedor has been moved down a little much. More justified now after the loss to Silva, but keep it mind that Silva out weighed him by 60 pounds LOL, tough for anyone to overcome.

FWIW I have no dog in the fight at all, I'm not a huge Fedor fan or anything.

I'm not a huge Fedor or Brock fan. The problem Fedor has is that when he lost, he lost to big underdogs so both guys had to leapfrog him. The other thing going against him is that most feel if you put Fedor against a guy like Carwin or JDS (who you have rated right behind Fedor) then Fedor would get pounded on. If Silva can make his face look like that, what can Carwin do to him?

It is more than just wins and losses, it is also about looking at the guys realistically and asking who would win if Fedor fought JDS or Carwin. IMO he would be a healthy dog to both guys.

Cammo101 wrote:

Starkiller wrote:^ Yeah I agree, but at the time Cain wasn't number 1, and also, the matter of which Cain won versus how Fedor lost to Werdum, Cain DOMINATED AND DESTROYED him. Wedrum just sort got lucky (for lack of a better term) on Fedor. I fully believe, as most prolly due, in a rematch Fedor wins. I just feel that for so many years dominance, I think Fedor has been moved down a little much. More justified now after the loss to Silva, but keep it mind that Silva out weighed him by 60 pounds LOL, tough for anyone to overcome.

FWIW I have no dog in the fight at all, I'm not a huge Fedor fan or anything.

I'm not a huge Fedor or Brock fan. The problem Fedor has is that when he lost, he lost to big underdogs so both guys had to leapfrog him. The other thing going against him is that most feel if you put Fedor against a guy like Carwin or JDS (who you have rated right behind Fedor) then Fedor would get pounded on. If Silva can make his face look like that, what can Carwin do to him?

It is more than just wins and losses, it is also about looking at the guys realistically and asking who would win if Fedor fought JDS or Carwin. IMO he would be a healthy dog to both guys.

Good point, I will say that I think Carwin would beat Fedor, but Fedor would beat JDS. IDK, I just think he's being underrated now. He got caught in a sub, then lost to someone who totally dwarfed him in size.

Starkiller wrote:Good point, I will say that I think Carwin would beat Fedor, but Fedor would beat JDS. IDK, I just think he's being underrated now. He got caught in a sub, then lost to someone who totally dwarfed him in size.

Heavyweights are bigger, stronger, more athletic and more skilled than ever before. And Fedor is essencially the same fighter he has always been. The division caught up to him while he was training in Siberia with yes men. IMO.

You gotta look back and question some of Fedor's previous wins. Arlovski was schooling him before that one punch. I remember being bitter about that Lindland win even, given that Lindland was in the middle of tossing Fedor when Fedor grabbed the ropes.

He hasn't beaten Shane Carwin or Frank Mir recently. Hell, he hasn't done much that Abe Wagner hasn't done.

cowboyronnie wrote:You gotta look back and question some of Fedor's previous wins. Arlovski was schooling him before that one punch. I remember being bitter about that Lindland win even, given that Lindland was in the middle of tossing Fedor when Fedor grabbed the ropes.

He hasn't beaten Shane Carwin or Frank Mir recently. Hell, he hasn't done much that Abe Wagner hasn't done.

Fedor really has done very little since leaving Pride. That is partially the fault of circumstance, partially Fedor ducking big fights, and partually M1 trying to milk him for money instead of making the best fights possible.

I was shocked to see Vadim challenge Dana to a fight the other night on Twitter, I would have expected him to only fight Dana if M1 could make money off of it.

All good points. IDK, I just think Sherdog is either overly drastic with rankings or overly stern with them and not willing to budge at all. (Is there reason why Dan Hardy is still top 10? Sean Sherk? Pettis should probably be in there )

cowboyronnie wrote:You gotta look back and question some of Fedor's previous wins. Arlovski was schooling him before that one punch..

That is as debatable now as it was back then. Most of his strikes missed.

I would use Rogers as more of an example than Arlovski.

cowboyronnie wrote:You gotta look back and question some of Fedor's previous wins. Arlovski was schooling him before that one punch. I remember being bitter about that Lindland win even, given that Lindland was in the middle of tossing Fedor when Fedor grabbed the ropes.

i tend to disagree. in the end he won ALL those fights (in impressive fashion too), you can't take that
away from the guy.

and i think in general sherdog has a pro-zuffa bias (more so than other sites).

Posey H8er wrote:

cowboyronnie wrote:You gotta look back and question some of Fedor's previous wins. Arlovski was schooling him before that one punch. I remember being bitter about that Lindland win even, given that Lindland was in the middle of tossing Fedor when Fedor grabbed the ropes.

i tend to disagree. in the end he won ALL those fights (in impressive fashion too), you can't take that away from the guy.

No one is taking the wins away from him, but you can go back in retrospect and rethink just how good that competition actually was. Arlovski, Sylvia and Rdogers were all nothing special at the point they fought Fedor.

Arlovski was the number 2 HW in the world, Sylvia was I think 5th, and Rodgers was an unbeaten unknown who KO'd Arlovski, and he was 8th or 9th.

But I think the argument about all HW competition is an unfair one. Even for the UFC guys. You could make an argument against the competition for each of their top fighters. Virtually all of the new fighters (like JDS or Carwin) have only fought a couple 'top guys' because they have just emerged. Granted they look very talented so they get respect. This is because in all of MMA, the HW's don't always have the longest lifespan or have the deepest competition.

I don't remember that at all, funkatron. Fedor looked out of sorts.

Posey H8er wrote:

cowboyronnie wrote:You gotta look back and question some of Fedor's previous wins. Arlovski was schooling him before that one punch. I remember being bitter about that Lindland win even, given that Lindland was in the middle of tossing Fedor when Fedor grabbed the ropes.

i tend to disagree. in the end he won ALL those fights (in impressive fashion too), you can't take that
away from the guy.

and i think in general sherdog has a pro-zuffa bias (more so than other sites).

Floyd Mayweather doesn't get out-boxed and then land a single punch. No one beats him for a minute.

i think you're looking too much into small details. mma and boxing are two completely different elements. the thing with fedor is that he either completely destroys his opponents or he makes miraculous comebacks that you would not expect. he did it for 10 years without losing. people can't discredit his resume now just because he has lost recently. he was the best heavyweight of all time but it appears with age and other factors that is no longer the case.

I've always thought Sherdog was somewhat anti-Zuffa, or at the very least, pro-everything else.

They've had their credentials taken away by the UFC on at least two separate occasions now, which I think leaves them without any for UFC events at the moment.

^ No way, they are super pro-Zuffa now. At least it seems that way.

Starkiller

So Fedor was number 1 for God knows how long, lost once being caught in a Triangle/Armbar by a top flight BJJ guy, and dropped to number 4 I believe. Now he just got beat and he's 8th? Lesnar gets destroyed by Cain and he's still number 2? doesn't makes sense. What are your top 10 HW rankings? Mine....

1. Cain
2. Overeem
3. Werdum
4. Brock
5. Silva
6. Fedor
7. JDS
8. Carwin
9. Mir
10. Nog/Nelson

At this point I would probably have it as:

1. Cain 2: Werdum 3: Junior Dos Santos 4: Antonio Silva 5: Brock Lesnar 6. Fedor Emelianko 7. Shane Carwin 8. Alistar Overeem 9. Frank Mir 10. Antonio Noguera

Werdum was the first to beat Fedor and Antonio Silva won by stoppage. They both deserve to be ranked ahead of Brock. Cain gets the top spot because he's beaten really good competition and looks to be the best of the UFC's guys. JDS should be 3rd because he's beaten a lot of solid fighters and KOed Werdum. Nog gets on there by default. There wasn't anyone I really felt comfortable giving the #10 spot to.

I'm not a huge Fedor or Brock fan. The problem Fedor has is that when he lost, he lost to big underdogs so both guys had to leapfrog him. The other thing going against him is that most feel if you put Fedor against a guy like Carwin or JDS (who you have rated right behind Fedor) then Fedor would get pounded on. If Silva can make his face look like that, what can Carwin do to him?

It is more than just wins and losses, it is also about looking at the guys realistically and asking who would win if Fedor fought JDS or Carwin. IMO he would be a healthy dog to both guys.

The problem is that line of reasoning is that when guys with Fedor's stature in the sport fight damn near everyone they are going to be heavy favorites. But Fedor is held to a different standard. Fedor's one loss to Werdum (who I think he'd beat in a rematch as well) dropped him down to like #4 in the heavyweights and completely out of the P4P rankings. If Anderson Silva didn't pull off that submission over Chael Sonnen would Silva have dropped out of the P4P conversation. I don't think so.

As for how Fedor would do against JDS and Carwin. I think Fedor would beat JDS because I think JDS isn't all that quick. He's typical heavyweight speed whereas a guy like Antonio Silva is very quick and agile for his size. So while JDS presents many of the same problems for Fedor as Silva did I think Fedor could still win that fight. As for Carwin, I think Fedor destroys him. When was the last time Carwin went for a takedown. He doesn't use his wrestling in his fights. He is a standup fighter who also happens to have a wrestling background. Fedor takes him out with strikes b4 Carwin ever thinks of taking him down.

Cammo101

Sherdog's rankings are always awful, but I have Fedor #8 as well and have no problem with him at that spot. Lesnar lost to the #1 HW, Fedor lost to 2 guys who were outside the top 10. Yes, Lesnar at #2 is a joke, but there is a difference between the guy Lesnar lost to, and the guys Fedor lost to.

Fedor wins a few, he will be right back in the top 5. There is always turnover at the top because the best guys always fight each other.

Fedor hasn't lost to someone outside of the top 10 since that Japanese guy cut him with an illegal elbow strike 10 years ago. Both Werdum and Silva were and still are top 10 heavyweights. And Brock lost to only one guy worthy of respect. Mir is the last of the origin overrated UFC heavyweight champions. He sucks. He's only a top 10 heavyweight because the people under him haven't distinguished themselves enough recently to justify a move up. In my opinion the difference between whom I consider #9,10 (see above post) and whomever is 11-15 is so tiny as to be barely distinguishable.

How does Mir suck? He's undoubtedly a top BJJ guy at HW - one of the only legit BBs at HW, he has one punch KO power and good punching technique, and he's really smart. "Sucks"?