Overeem Out, Cormier In SF HWGP

REDDzone · Post #1 » by **REDDzone** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:40 pm

http://mmajunkie.com/news/24460/overeem ... igfoot.mma

wow.

Post #2 » by **CPT** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:44 am

Crazy.

I wonder this hurts or helps his chances at signing with the UFC, seeing as they are essentially the same company at this point.

IMO Overeem fighting in October is better for the tournament than Cormier fighting in September, so I wonder if there's more to the story than that.

REDDzone · Post #3 » by **REDDzone** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:04 am

I'm wondering if its showtime's doing, ie showtime has this date set in stone and Overeem doesn't like it.

Or else zuffa has it set in stone and Overeem doesn't like it, but zuffa sticks with their philosophy of no fighter being bigger than the org (although not sure they care nearly as much about the sf brand as the ufc one).

Nemesis21 · Post #4 » by **Nemesis21** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:15 am

This HWGP has really bombed.

Post #5 » by **spykelee** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:17 am

Boy, imagine the credability this tournament would have just lost if it wasn't already a complete joke...

skflives · Post #6 » by **skflives** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:37 am

spykelee wrote:Boy, imagine the credability this tournament would have just lost if it wasn't already a complete joke...

It wasn't a complete joke hater. But yea, this really kills alot of interest in this GP. Fedor out in the first round. Overeem kicks himself out because of a broken toe. damn

REDDzone · Post #7 » by **REDDzone** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:14 am

Meh, I'll still be watching.

Cammo101 · Post #8 » by **Cammo101** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:15 am

Overeem is such a baby. The guy dictated terms to Strikeforce forever and held their LHW title hostage for 2 years. Good for Dana for telling him to take a hike when he tried the same thing with Zuffa.

This right here is why Zuffa is so much better than every other MMA organization. They are the only one who does not allow the inmates to run the asylum.

Cammo101 · Post #9 » by **Cammo101** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:51 am

And also, I know I beat this dead horse all the time, but how (Please Use More Appropriate Word) is Strikeforce's management? They started this huge tournament and did not even have one of the favorites signed through the end of the tourney?

Strikeforce is so inept that it really is amazing they lasted as long as they have.

REDDzone · Post #10 » by **REDDzone** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:53 am

Wait who is the favorite not signed through the tournament?

edit: oh, nvm, Overeem only has one fight left in the current deal.

REDDzone · Post #11 » by **REDDzone** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:55 am

Dana came out and said that showtime wants it in september, so it has to be in september. Overeem is hurt and won't be ready, therefore he's out.

Seems pretty straightforward to me.

Post #12 » by **CPT** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:25 am

skflives wrote:
spykelee wrote:Boy, imagine the credability this tournament would have just lost if it wasn't already a complete joke...

It wasn't a complete joke hater. But yea, this really kills alot of interest in this GP. Fedor out in the first round. Overeem kicks himself out because of a broken toe. damn

It was always a complete joke. At least as a tournament. If you just looked at it as some good HW fights, it was fine, but the tournament was horribly mismanaged from the start.

From their failure to set up the 5 round fights they wanted, to their lopsided brackets (again, it seems the seeding went 1 vs. 2, 3 vs. 4, 5 vs. 6 and 7 vs. 8), to the first round fights being 4 months apart, to not having Overeem signed through the whole tournament, to Cormier being randomly thrown in, even though they had several HW Tournament reserve bouts, and now the most interesting fighter being forced out of the tournament...really, how is it not a joke?

Cammo101 · Post #13 » by **Cammo101** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:26 am

At this point the tourney is a complete joke and can not end quickly enough. This will go down as one of the biggest debacles in MMA history. As predicted.

Starkiller · Post #14 » by **Starkiller** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:52 pm

Somewhere on this forum, I called this ****.

Post #15 » by **Walt Cronkite** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 4:05 pm

Bummer. Will still watch the semis.

SDM · Post #16 » by **SDM** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 4:09 pm

I thought Griggs would be the alternate, considering he beat two other alternates and didn't sustain much damage (Gian was an alternate, right?). They're making the rules up as they go along. About a dozen of us predicted the tourney falling flat.

This is amateurish promotion. I don't see Coker keeping a job after this.

cowboyronnie · Post #17 » by **cowboyronnie** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 4:45 pm

Cammo trolling, looking for attention.

REDDzone · Post #18 » by **REDDzone** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:09 pm

cowboyronnie wrote:Cammo trolling, looking for attention.

I don't agree with the above but I AM curious why he speaks of it as if it is actually some huge stain on the reputation of mma that needs to be abolished asap before it ruins the sport.

"Cannot end quick enough"? Really? Kharitonov/Barnett is a great fight imo. Now I do not think that Cormier is ready for Silva, but the prospect of Silva vs Barnett or to a lesser extent Kharitonov is exciting as well.

Bigfoot may be

skflives · Post #19 » by **skflives** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:24 pm

CPT wrote:
skflives wrote:
spykelee wrote:Boy, imagine the credability this tournament would have just lost if it wasn't already a complete joke...

It wasn't a complete joke hater. But yea, this really kills alot of interest in this GP. Fedor out in the first round. Overeem kicks himself out because of a broken toe. damn

It was always a complete joke. At least as a tournament. If you just looked at it as some good HW fights, it was fine, but the tournament was horribly mismanaged from the start.

From their failure to set up the 5 round fights they wanted, to their lopsided brackets (again, it seems the seeding went 1 vs. 2, 3 vs. 4, 5 vs. 6 and 7 vs. 8), to the first round fights being 4 months apart, to not having Overeem signed through the whole tournament, to Cormier being randomly thrown in, even though they had several HW Tournament reserve bouts, and now the most interesting fighter being forced out of the tournament...really, how is it not a joke?

I said it wasn't....emphasis on the it wasn't. And you know what it still isn't. There aren't a lot of tournaments in the sport anymore but even with no Werdum, Fedor or Overeem its still the most relevant tournament out there especially when it comes to heavyweights. I would take any one of the guys remaining in the Strikeforce Heavyweight Grand Prix over pretty much anyone in either Bellator's first heavyweight tournament or their upcoming tournament. The only guy that had any chance of competing with any of the four remaining Strikeforce heavyweights in Cole Konrad and that's because he'd lay on top of Cormier and Kharitonov for 3 rounds. So to call it a joke is being overly dramatic.

While it isn't a joke it is a major letdown. While it could once be said that whoever came out of the tournament as the winner (someone from the Overeem,Werdum,Silva,Fedor bracket) could have a legitimate claim to the top spot in the division you can't say that anymore. I 100% agree with you on many of the things you mentioned. But with regards to most of the things you said I'll like to post something I posted on Sherdog.com's forums a while back.

While the timing was certainly an issue I think the big problem was the match making. Strikeforce made their matches as if they were scared the Tournament would fall apart so they put their biggest possible fights on one side of the bracket to make sure at least some of them happened. If they would have made the matchups as followed instead things would have been much better:

Round 1:
(2)Fabricio Werdum vs. (7) Brett Rodgers
(3) Fedor Emelianko vs. (6)Sergei Kharitonov

(1)Alistair Overeem vs. (8) Andrei Arlovski
(4)Josh Barnett vs. (5) Antonio Silva

In round one we get a showcase fight for Overeem. We get a matchup between 2 popular Russian former Pride Heavyweights in a matchup many wanted to see for years. We also get a real good fight in Bigfoot Silva and Josh Barnett. Brett Rodgers would probably get one of the few possible matchups that could have given him a good chance at making the second round.

In round two you'd have Overeem taking on the winner of Barnett/Silva. Coupled with his destruction of Arlovski a win in that fight would give him a lot of credibility to American fight fans. In the other bracket we'd likely get the rematch of Fedor/Werdum that should have been made a long time ago.

In round 3 we'd have Fedor (since its clear Werdum's victory in the first fight was a fluke) against whomever came on top between Barnett, Silva and Overeem. This way Fedor heads into the finals with his status relatively in tact and he'd be facing a worthy challenger in the finals. That way if he loses he's still marketable and the guy who has beaten him can legitimately say he is the top heavyweight and demand a fight with the winner of Cain Velesquez/Junior Dos Santos.

If Strikeforce had their tournament this way I don't think the extended delay would have caused any less excitement. But the way things were done we saw Fedor fight a guy who was probably the toughest matchup style wise for him in the first round. Fedor lost and the matchup between Overeem and Werdum was horrible. So the marketablity of everyone on that side of the bracket took a huge hit. Plus you had Barnett with his lame WWE style promo at the end of his fight and Brett Rodgers arrest for beating his wife. All in all, a series of setbacks which the delay made seem all the worse.

skflives · Post #20 » by **skflives** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:29 pm

SDM wrote:I thought Griggs would be the alternate, considering he beat two other alternates and didn't sustain much damage (Gian was an alternate, right?). They're making the rules up as they go along. About a dozen of us predicted the tourney falling flat.

This is amateurish promotion. I don't see Coker keeping a job after this.

While I understand what you are saying about Cormier being chosen as the alternate the fact of the matter is that he's the more credible between himself and Griggs. When this whole thing started Shane Del Rosario was clearly being groomed as the the top alternate and he was scheduled to face Cormier b4 he got hurt. So when Cormier dominated a quality vet in Jeff Monson (who replaced the injured Del Rosario) I think he justified replacing Del Rosario as the #1 alternate.