Bellator General Discussion and Info

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Re: Bellator General Discussion and Info 

Post#1741 » by Jasen777 » Sun May 12, 2019 3:27 am

Awkward.
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Re: Bellator General Discussion and Info 

Post#1742 » by Bernman » Sun May 12, 2019 3:30 am

Early finish it is. Pitbull is the man. Another guy with among the best (counter) timing in the sport. Fittingly, but unfortunately, fighting simultaneous to another guy who is in that category in Aldo.

Questionable stoppage. But you can see what the ref was thinking. Chandler didn't flatline, but went flat while he was continuing to be hit. What are you going to do. Pitbull earned that position with that right hook pinpoint to the temple over Chandler's guard, and the subsequent aggression.

Champ-champ. And probably earns him the title of best fighter in Bellator history. Would love to see that Bendo rematch. Pitbull was winning that too before the fluke injury.
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Re: Bellator General Discussion and Info 

Post#1743 » by cowboyronnie » Sun May 12, 2019 10:23 pm

What a B-rate organization. Those fights were terrible. Lima got totally froze and looked hapless for most of that fight. He's just massive and has crazy power. It allows him to stand still and move backwards waiting for a counter. Which is effective. But so ugly and graceless.

Pitbull Somebody or Other is a Champ-Champ?

McKee has NINE FINISHES? How could he possibly be allowed to fight that many cans? Lol @ him claiming to be "taking names"? Which names exactly? Names like, "Daniel Crawford" and "John Macapá"? Those dudes have full-time jobs and MMA on weekends. They're no names.
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Re: Bellator General Discussion and Info 

Post#1744 » by Bernman » Mon May 13, 2019 3:09 am

That's just doubling down. There are a lot of fighters with power. Even if Lima had the most at ww, that's not going to lead him to beating every other fighter in the striking department. He feints well to set up the leg kick, puts a solid left hook-straight right combo together, has amazing timing + accuracy, and good footwork + parrying to not get hit much.

If you don't have a grasp of who Pitbull is by now, that's on you. He's a skilled, savvy, tank, and warrior.

Bellator is a b organization but with plenty of A fighters. Yes, Coker made it worse however. The holdovers from the Rebney era are still among the leaders of their divisions all these years later, in spite of the disproportionate investment. They're a glorified ponzi scheme now, like WSOF.
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Re: Bellator General Discussion and Info 

Post#1745 » by Bernman » Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:13 pm

I get the sense Bellator's stock is going up, and in a sustainable way, for the first time since they started out on Spike. The DAZN move hasn't marketed them to people like me or some of you. But it has solidified them with a healthy video deal, given them flexibility to have sexier cards and ones more voluminous with fights they can monetize, and marketed them to a somewhat new crowd in boxing fans. Many are subscribing to DAZN for boxing and then crossing over. Bellator's Youtube #'s, as one metric, are quite strong now, their crowds are bigger and louder, they're more international, and feedback is much more positive than the indifference or scoffing towards them that there was before. So that DAZN deal was seemingly a boon to them overall.

Now, I think they should either ditch Paramount entirely and show events exclusively on DAZN, or try to switch to a tv channel marketed to mma/boxing like Fox Sports and show a few events a year there to keep them in the mainstream eye.
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Re: Bellator General Discussion and Info 

Post#1746 » by AirCanadaMouse » Sun Jun 16, 2019 11:02 pm

I’m pulling for Bellator but I’m not as optimistic as you are. Despite the deal with DAZN, there hasn’t been that much growth under Coker as I was hoping for. The Bjorn era was better, sadly, especially in terms of acquiring and developing homegrown talent. They ruined one of their biggest chances with Pico as well, and I’m someone that actually enjoys prospect vs prospect fights.

Their production is still very amateur, the commentary is pretty awful, the weigh ins feel like a local promotion, and they do a poor job with televising in the UK. Peppa Pig aside, apparently the broadcast ended as soon as the bell rang after Rory-Neiman’s fight. And they still do tape delays in 2019, makes no sense at all.

Also it seems like anytime they have a big card or a big fight, it never delivers. People are often left disappointed after a Bellator event because of it.

Think the handling of the HW tournament was bad too. Was way too long and drawn out and by the time it reached the finals, there wasn’t as much interest.

And arguably their biggest draw just retired, the titles aren’t defended as often as I like, and PFL looks to be a bigger threat more and more. In fact, I think PFL will soon be the number two organization.


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Re: Bellator General Discussion and Info 

Post#1747 » by Bernman » Sun Jun 16, 2019 11:39 pm

I agree with some of the assessment, but I think you're grandfathering in some of their previous mistakes in gauging their current stock. I'm claiming it's going up significantly from that rather low point. When DAZN signed them they may have been on the verge of insolvency.

Now they have that security and are making better choices, possibly less tied to Viacom and more appeasing sport's centric execs at DAZN or are just letting the MMA guys do their thing.

- The freak fights are at a minimum and less freakish. I mean Machida still looks impressive, especially at a higher weight class where fighters last longer.
- Their fighter sharing with RIZIN is giving them some flexibility in that and other regards to keep fighters busy and borrow some of theirs when needed.
- They may do a poor job televising in the UK, but I guess that's room for improvement, and they've become players there with their BAMMA acquisition. The UFC isn't appealing to them much
- Also, the UFC's sponsorship ban + ESPN-Plus killing ppv points creates a window for Bellator.
- And I do see more prospect signings of interest with an long-term outlook. Last event, Mix looked like a rising star, beating another promising fighter in Bandejas. Archuleta stood out. The bw division is finally filling out. Pico took a hit, but Borics further built his name. Next event has Edwards, Gallagher, Lovato, and Shipman-Van Steenis.

PFL, on the other hand, is a ghost town. I have ESPN Plus. I've watched their cards this season. They've been really boring. Some Russian v. another Russian, with no personality, and often not exciting in the cage either. Their crowds are small and dead. Their ratings on ESPN2 are really low. They spend money recklessly. Their rules are convoluted. I think they still only exist to sabotage Bellator and be a stealth feeder to UFC. They'll stagnate or be irrelevant. OneFC is the actually threat.
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Bellator General Discussion and Info 

Post#1748 » by AirCanadaMouse » Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:45 am

I agree with a lot of what you said too. In fairness, the results and how the fights pan out is entirely out of their control, but the production has so much room for improvement.

Anytime I’ve seen PFL I’ve enjoyed it, but I haven’t invested in a full show, just the occasional fights, but I absolutely love the format that they have. OneFC just has a lot of sketchiness involved. I don’t think that weight cut system is as abided as they make out to be, and this whole 50 million people watch us and the hyperbole of westernization is so tiresome from them.

I think the UFC can really use a feeder system too, that’s how it was back in the day with WSOF as well.

I’m okay with Machida still competing, and I’m actually okay with how they book the older guys. Just need to continue phasing them out and not be so dependent on them.

The cross promotion is really great with Rizin but it’s going to go back to the titles being rarely defended. Guchi will only have to defend the belt once a year...

Top guys aren’t as active either. I heard this is due to budget/affordability, you can only pay Rory so much in a given year, but I think that hinders a lot.

As successful as Bader’s run has been, there could be so much more done with it. He barely fights and didn’t even take any damage in any of the tournament fights... has two titles but has only had one title defence this whole time. Hasn’t fought since January and doesn’t even have a fight booked after signing a new deal.

Bellator needs an upgrade in production and to be able to afford to put those fights on cards several times a year. Big cards too. We need more of those in due time.


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Re: Bellator General Discussion and Info 

Post#1749 » by Bernman » Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:16 pm

Susan wrote:anybody watch Mousasi lose?


Yeah, it was a little surprising to me, but definitely not a shock. Lovato has been a rocket ship from the beginning. Miletich had him as his top mw prospect on AXS when that was a loaded group.

I'm actually kind of surprised Mousasi withstood as much bottom time as he did. He's improved. Didn't think Lovato would get it there. But he had some slick takedown and sweep combos with those leg laces.

Lovato arguably got the better of the stand-up the first round and a half. Again, a little surprising, but not shocking. Mousasi is sleepy and doesn't move a lot, while Lovato does, feints, and sets up kicks from distance.

Lovato really tired at the end of round 2, at which point he was up 2. Mousasi came back and started beating on him for it. But Lovato found a 2nd wind to take the 5th and the fight.

I think the best route for Bellator would be Mousasi-Lovato rematch and Bader-Machida (sort of rematch as well).
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Re: Bellator General Discussion and Info 

Post#1750 » by Bernman » Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:28 pm

Bellator pissed a lot of consumers off by jerking them around.

Firstly, they tape delayed the card for the American audience, and that's not working anymore if it ever did. The fights were going to be spoiled and many want to know they're watching live.

Secondly, they kept shifting the fights to different platforms, a couple actual pretty good ones they didn't end up showing, and one they aired the very end of on Sky.

This could have been a good appetizer (even though arguably better) for the UFC card, but they botched their planning horribly. This is what happens when you get Viacom involved. Last weekend went very smoothly on DAZN. DAZN needs to just buy the promotion from Viacom already. Paramount gets terrible ratings anyway, and I think progress will be linear would be linear w/ DAZN and another tv partner like FS1. This way it's 1.5 steps forward, 1 step back.

I think we'd also see more fighters emerge as divisional standouts this way. Because DAZN empowers them to have deeper cards and I don't think they suggest to Bellator to baby a prospect, throw them to the wolves, or have just 4 fights in a card they can monetize. I see double digit fighters on Bellator's roster fans could be excited to see but they don't propel for one reason or another.
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Re: Bellator General Discussion and Info 

Post#1751 » by Bernman » Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:25 pm

RZ, you should start a Youtube channel reacting live to grappling-related reffing errors. I'd have been curious to see your reaction when Mousasi was grabbing the fence repeatedly for like 30 seconds to avoid a back take from a world class jits player. It was the most egregious infraction I've ever seen, he didn't get a point deducted for it, and the ref (iirc Leon Roberts) made Lovato earn about 5 td's before he got one. IMO should have set him on the ground a while earlier and then taken a point.
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Re: Bellator General Discussion and Info 

Post#1752 » by REDDzone » Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:32 pm

Bernman wrote:RZ, you should start a Youtube channel reacting live to grappling-related reffing errors. I'd have been curious to see your reaction when Mousasi was grabbing the fence repeatedly for like 30 seconds to avoid a back take from a world class jits player. It was the most egregious infraction I've ever seen, he didn't get a point deducted for it, and the ref (iirc Leon Roberts) made Lovato earn about 5 td's before he got one. IMO should have set him on the ground a while earlier and then taken a point.


I didn't get it live but my reaction looked something like this:

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Re: Bellator General Discussion and Info 

Post#1753 » by AirCanadaMouse » Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:25 pm

Tough loss for the Moose against a clearly juiced fighter, but oh well. He definitely deserves a rematch, but the entire card was just really confusing to watch. Shame too, because Bellator has put on back to back good cards, better than UFC this week too.
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Re: Bellator General Discussion and Info 

Post#1754 » by Bernman » Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:04 pm

Bellator fw tourney match-ups were announced for 2 events in September.

Bellator 226 — Sept. 7 — San Jose, Calif.

(Ryan Bader vs. Cheick Kongo)

Sam Sicilia (16-9) vs. Pedro Carvalho (10-3)

Daniel Straus (26-8) vs. Derek Campos (19-9)

Pat Curran (23-8) vs. Adam Borics (13-0)

Emmanuel Sanchez (18-4) vs. Tywan Claxton (5-0)

Bellator 228 — Sept. 28 — Inglewood, Calif.

(Lyoto Machida vs. Gegard Mousasi)

Patricio Freire (29-4) vs. Juan Archuleta (23-1)

A.J. McKee (14-0) vs. Georgi Karakhanyan (28-9-1, 1 NC)

Darrion Caldwell (12-3) vs. Henry Corrales (17-3)

Daniel Weichel (39-11) vs. Saul Rogers (13-2)

Pretty stacked. Only one I don't particularly like is Weichel-Rogers. Caldwell-Corrales, Pitbull-Archuleta, and Curran-Borics are pretty sweet matches. Carvalho is a sleeper.
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Re: Bellator General Discussion and Info 

Post#1755 » by cowboyronnie » Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:11 pm

That feather tourney is FIRE.

Puuuhhhhlease let us see Pat Curran vs Daniel Strauss VII.

If that can't happen, Curran vs Fereire IX.

Or Strauss vs Fereire V

(wait that last one isn't a joke. they've actually already fought four times).

What a FIRE organization. Posing all the questions about who would win the 5th time two fighters face-off!!!!!
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Re: Bellator General Discussion and Info 

Post#1756 » by REDDzone » Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:11 am

That actually is a really good tournament.
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Re: Bellator General Discussion and Info 

Post#1757 » by cowboyronnie » Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:39 am

SPOILER:




BJM calling the Mitrione mouthpiece thing a "mental error". "He needs to focus". How many fights does BJM have again? Put an unfitted mouthpiece in and try to focus while Sergei Kharitonov tries to murder you in front of thousands of people. Sure.
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Re: Bellator General Discussion and Info 

Post#1758 » by cowboyronnie » Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:34 am

MVP is back!....to fighting cans! And then mocking and strutting and acting like a POS.

Anyone in modern mma have a profile to accomplishment ratio as poor as his?
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Re: Bellator General Discussion and Info 

Post#1759 » by cowboyronnie » Sat Sep 28, 2019 2:13 am

Mvp's opponent had 5 fights and 20% bf. Looked like ****.
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Re: Bellator General Discussion and Info 

Post#1760 » by cowboyronnie » Tue Oct 1, 2019 11:19 pm

I thought Machida won that. But pretty close. Mousasi was having real trouble, throwing pretty gracelessly to get at Machida. Weird to see such a ponderous dude have to go after it like that.

**** BJM. Why does he talk like he's a fighter?? "I can take an oblique kick, I'd rather that than a kick to the head.", etc. He's either talking in the second-person, as if from a fighter's perspective to a knave. Or in the first-person, like he's a God damn fighter. Doing BJJ with Al Bundy and roughing up black kids as a '90s LAPD does not make you a fighter.
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