Street applicability of BJJ and MMA, gi, nogi etc.

[Jasen777]

So as not to tie up the other thread.

Meh, most gracies train both gi and nogi which imo is better than just nogi. I think to be a complete grappler you should do both, but what the f*ck do I know I guess.

Well for "street applicability*" shouldn't you practice in whatever you typically wear on the street? Against people wearing whatever various things people likely to attack you would wear?

*I think in general a large number of BJJ techniques are of limited use in real life situations because going to the ground is extremely dangerous if you can't guarantee there's only one person who's a threat. Though to be fair I haven't been in a fight since junior high.

Like Youtube taught me: (Real violence in video)

Spoiler:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlXxVPt7rrQ[/youtube]

Should I feel bad about myself as a person that I think the part starting at 2:57 is awesome.

[REDDzone]

Well for "street applicability*" shouldn't you practice in whatever you typically wear on the street? Against people wearing whatever various things people likely to attack you would wear?

Wearing street clothes to train results in stretched or ripped street clothes. Aint nobody got time/money fo' dat.

*I think in general a large number of BJJ techniques are of limited use in real life situations because going to the ground is extremely dangerous if you can't guarantee there's only one person who's a threat. Though to be fair I haven't been in a fight since junior high.

Well if you are looking for a martial art to deal with multiple attackers, enjoy your search because you'll be looking for a long time.

Or just start running track, that's probably your best bet.

Or better yet, just don't be a douchebag to people and fight in the streets.

[blkout]

My brother used a kimura in a street fight. He got jumped by two guys at a train station, he **** up the one guys arm pretty bad, bad enough to end the fight. In the process of being tackled to the ground he damaged his own knee though and ended up with a pretty decent victims of crime compensation payout.

If I had to learn any sort of martial art for real life application it'd be bjj. Most street fights end up on the ground, it's pretty rare to see a fight that doesn't descend into complete chaos like that.

[REDDzone]

Another thought is knee on belly. That would probably be the best position from bjj for a street fight. Takedown, pass to knee on belly. Superior control, pin your opponent but still be able to just step off and walk/run in half a second if another attacker comes. You could punch from there if needed, or just hold an intoxicated bro down, whatever you need really.

BJJ has punchblocks and clinch series, but if I was 100% concerned with self defense and only self defense, I would definitely add boxing to my training.

[REDDzone]

If I had to learn any sort of martial art for real life application it'd be bjj. Most street fights end up on the ground, it's pretty rare to see a fight that doesn't descend into complete chaos like that.

I think boxing is good too, but if you ever roll it really is crazy to realize how easily you can handle people in general. Sometimes its difficult to realize progress in anything where you have training partners because of the whole rising tide raises all ships thing. Hard to monitor progress against someone constantly improving themselves. But new guys come in and grapple blue belts and its literally like watching a kid try to fight their dad. This doesn't include ex wrestlers, or freak athletes obviously.

So many instinctual responses to things are so terribly wrong in a grappling situation. The classic example is pushing on someone's torso in mount, definitely the most instinctual response, definitely the worst thing you can do, easy armbar.

[Bernman]

Jiu-Jitsu doesn't work.



Seriously, it's virtually useless if you aren't 1 on 1. There's too much of a commitment to being sticky while another guy kicks you in the head unsuspectedly. Fights with more than two people you have to pretty much exclusively use muay thai and wrestling, at least until everybody else is seriously incapacitated. Then try at your own risk. The wrestling even can only be used as far as td, td defense, and scrambling. Stop a td and keep striking. Get a td, couple strikes, then stand quickly so you don't get blind-sided.

Lee Murray, before he became a criminal and fell from grace, use to tell glorious stories on Sherdog about how he'd get into streetfights at a drop of the hat. Who knows how much was fact, or fiction (of course there's the infamous ko of Tito claim, which some back up and others dispute) trying to be considered amateur tough man champ too. But he talked about how bjj, like I said, was pretty much useless in a numbers fight, but he rnr'ed a guy 1 on 1 in the bathroom or something to quickly diffuse a situation (which is what I think it's good for). Not the sort of rnr that normally takes place in men's bathrooms.

[Jasen777]

Wearing street clothes to train results in stretched or ripped street clothes. Aint nobody got time/money fo' dat.

Makes sense. I guess something like jeans would be difficult, but what about running shorts and a t-shirt?

Or better yet, just don't be a douchebag to people and fight in the streets.

That's what they recommend actually "violence is terrible, avoid it."

[skflives]

When it comes to the street applicability of martial arts I think watching MMA has proven that an overreliance upon one art is a recipe for failure. No matter what circumstances you find yourself in you're going to be much better off if you're well rounded. If you're fighting more than one guy or someone who is much stronger/bigger than you physically it'll pay to be skilled in a striking art so that you can deal with your opponent(s) quicker and from a safer distance. But you'll need to know enough wrestling to defend takedowns and enough submissions to at least create enough room and/or leverage to get back to your feet.

[REDDzone]

Makes sense. I guess something like jeans would be difficult, but what about running shorts and a t-shirt?

Or what if you live in WI like me and a gi and gi pants are a decent proxy for a jacket and khakis? (seriously)

[REDDzone]

Seriously, it's virtually useless if you aren't 1 on 1. There's too much of a commitment to being sticky while another guy kicks you in the head unsuspectedly. Fights with more than two people you have to pretty much exclusively use muay thai and wrestling, at least until everybody else is seriously incapacitated. Then try at your own risk. The wrestling even can only be used as far as td, td defense, and scrambling. Stop a td and keep striking. Get a td, couple strikes, then stand quickly so you don't get blind-sided.

This is crazy talk, there is no martial art effective if you are being attacked by a group of people. And if there was, it would be boxing because of the technical aspect of avoiding strikes and throwing straight punches. How do you argue bjj is ineffective while wrestling isn't? You don't start taking people down if you are fighting multiple attackers, for sure, and you don't clinch like you were fighting muay thai either. You're best chance is 1) run, and if that's impossible, 2) have boxing and put your back to the wall and try to limit how many guys can come at you at once and throw straight punches only to fend them off.

[blkout]

No offense Bernman but I would bet my life you have never been in a fight. Or at least a fight against more than one person. You just hope you don't get your teeth kicked in, there's nothing else you can do. If you see an opening you run like hell otherwise cover up and hope someone stops it.

[REDDzone]

When it comes to the street applicability of martial arts I think watching MMA has proven that an overreliance upon one art is a recipe for failure. No matter what circumstances you find yourself in you're going to be much better off if you're well rounded. If you're fighting more than one guy or someone who is much stronger/bigger than you physically it'll pay to be skilled in a striking art so that you can deal with your opponent(s) quicker and from a safer distance. But you'll need to know enough wrestling to defend takedowns and enough submissions to at least create enough room and/or leverage to get back to your feet.

TBH I think people tend to seriously, seriously, seriously overestimate how good random dudes are at fighting. Have you ever seen someone who doesn't train martial arts throw a punch? its embarrassing. The punches are like windmills and so insanely telegraphed. Dudes aren't going to be attempting legit double legs or sprawling on the street. Fights usually end up on the ground because of dudes slipping and sliding and being off balance because they are so terrible at fighting in general. I honestly believe that training ANY martial art from boxing to judo to karate for more even a year probably lets a normal sized dude beat the hell out of 95% of the population. Hell a lot of it is just being more fit and being able to remain calm in that situation. Adrenaline dumps are real, plus people in general are super fat. Street fights generally aren't bjj purple belt vs golden gloves guy vs d3 college wrestler.

[Bernman]

Blkout, I guess you're dead now. I've been in a few fights. How can you avoid that as a dude? Not like I'm Lee Murray and in a ton of streetfights, but that behavior shouldn't be glorified in any way. It's the opposite of the martial art spirit. I hope you're not being braggadocios about your comparative fight frequency. lol

RZ, I was partially trolling you with the Herman pic and whatnot, playing to the bjj bias meme, but of course in a melee you can use a little wrestling in reverse to prevent from being in a prone position on your back, and a td quickly to put him in one briefly, or as a defense if they charge you. That's just common sense. Yeah, it's heavily boxing, or throwing whatever you can in that situation. I'd consider that part of martial arts, and obviously I didn't consider running an option. What about my post suggested I think I can beat up 3 people at once, or fighting w/ a number disadvantage is a good idea for most people which includes myself? It's just a reality that's a situation you can wind up in because honor doesn't apply with most people who are street fighting.

[REDDzone]

lol, I should have guessed. I don't even trane (bro) for the self defense, at least not anymore. But its one of my pet peeves when I see a criticism of bjj that it doesn't work against multiple opponents. No martial art does. The only reason I mention boxing is because I believe it would be the most efficient in dispatching opponents if it came to that (still not good, depending on the amount of opponents, but probably the best of the rest).

What about my post suggested I think I can beat up 3 people at once, or fighting w/ a number disadvantage is a good idea for most people which includes myself? It's just a reality that's a situation you can wind up in because honor doesn't apply with most people who are street fighting.

You mentioned bjj was almost useless if fighting a group of people (I'd argue all martial arts are useless against groups), and you suggested which martial arts would be best in those situations. If I thought I had a chance of being jumped by a group of people, I'd probably trane in firearms instead of martial arts tbh.

[REDDzone]

Regardless, aint nobody whipping my ass bro. Its in my mindset. I could never even fight ufc bro because I flip a switch and aint nobody steppin' to me.

Sure I've never trained before and haven't been in a fight since middle school, but I just KNOW I would do well. Nobody better not f*** with me bro.

[cowboyronnie]

I don't know about boxing in tha streets because of the limitation of space...there's likely to be chairs and tables or curbs and cars and walls and people. I think you'd just have to get your feet planted and go for kill strikes. Nothing subtle.

Cos otherwise, with space in every direction, a little boxing footwork and some feints, no one has a chance. Feint in, someone commits to a terrible punch, they're getting a hammering. And you can just have people trip over themselves with good circling and feigned aggression.

[blkout]

I hope you're not being braggadocios about your comparative fight frequency. lol .

I'm not sure getting the **** kicked out of you is anything to brag about lol. I was 6'3 and 240lbs at 14, I've had like 2 one on one fights in my life. Every other time I've been completely outnumbered and never even come close to winning.

[REDDzone]

There is one and only one thing I ever heard War Machine say that made sense and struck a chord with me. He said that technique was pretty irrelevant in a street fight. A street fight winner is pretty much just the dude who is willing to take it further.

I think at the end of the day, there are different things for different situations.

- If you have a drunk dude at a party who won't settle down or is getting aggressive or whatever. Lil trip or takedown, throw his legs out of the way informally, and knee on belly until he calms the f down without hurting him. Or if someone does somehow take you down, then you know a technical standup or else overhook from guard while breaking posture to avoid taking a shot, maybe sit up sweep to mount.

- If you are in a bar fight scenario, I mentioned boxing because I honestly think having the ability to just throw a straight punch down the pipe would be a huge boon. Is there enough space in most bars to windmill a punch like most untrained idiots? edit: maybe if there was enough space muay thai would be legit, would be funny to see some dude panicking after kicking a legit leg kick lolzers.

- If you are in a legit street fight with hoodlums and dudes are jumping you...hope you are able to get on that cross country tip...or else hope you're packin'.

[Jasen777]

Or what if you live in WI like me and a gi and gi pants are a decent proxy for a jacket and khakis? (seriously)

What's a jacket?

BTW, I have a brown belt in cross country running (just purple in street running).

[REDDzone]

Another thing that none of us has considered here is, how much does the hypothetical opponent bench press? [/the OT board]