The MMA Associations/Unions Thread (Update 11-30, Association FORMED)

[cowboyronnie]

And that $4 billion is IN DEBT, increasing by the hundreds and hundreds of thousands every week. And those hundreds of thousands are themselves just more debt if not paid.

A work stoppage for a year, without them being able to pay down the debt, nevermind break even day-today? The interest upon interest of $4B is going to be crushing. A year would be disastrous. They would additionally risk (slightly but tangibly) the whole investment collapsing as Bellator becomes the only game in town or boxing is revitalized.

Instituting incremental increases in fighter pay will save them way more money than allowing that interest to pile-up, lose valuation, risk the company, and be unable to make dollar one for a long period of time. Esp that debt. Oof.

Cammo wishes this weren't the case. Sorry, pal.

Read an article earlier that made me think of this post, I think it really reinforces your point:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-12-02/goldman-said-to-get-second-fed-slapdown-on-ufc-loan-after-appeal

The loan given to WME for the purchase of the UFC has been classified as a substandard loan due to the the price relative to the cashflow of the UFC. These guys overpaid, they are desperate for revenue, and could absolutely not withstand any type of work stoppage. No way.

PPV is their main revenue generator. The card this weekend has been estimated to have done ~150k buys. The name UFC by itself doesn't move PPVs, and this weekend had some decently well-known names like Cerrone and Pettis to bolster that as well.

If the fighters were willing to defer their real cash-in for a couple years, and allow WME to get out from under from this compounding debt and up to that TV deal, they could reap huge benefit long-term.

They have WME by the balls. 50% of the revenue by 2021. Or, they stop work and let WME collapse, sign with Bellator.

If it's this clear-cut, even the big names might be willing to get aboard a union. Conor might be getting 3-4% of the revenue at this point (no idea the number), he could be making more if they unionize.

[REDDzone]

If the fighters were willing to defer their real cash-in for a couple years, and allow WME to get out from under from this compounding debt and up to that TV deal, they could reap huge benefit long-term.

I think the problem is that the average fighter's career is very short. Asking them to defer their cash-in for years is literally asking some of them to never cash in, in order to allow the next generation to do so.

[Cammo101]

PPV is their main revenue generator. The card this weekend has been estimated to have done ~150k buys. The name UFC by itself doesn't move PPVs, and this weekend had some decently well-known names like Cerrone and Pettis to bolster that as well.

You are right, there are about 6 or 7 guys who sell PPVs, the catch 22 of it though is that they are the ones getting all the money, so getting them to be part of your boycott is going to be tough. The UFC is taking care of the Conors and the Rondas.

[REDDzone]

Better hope they didn't alienate Conor too much by stripping him. Last we heard, he didn't feel like he was being taken care of quite enough.

Ronda is said to want another fight or two then be done.

GSP is already well alienated, obviously.

[REDDzone]

On another note, I really think Bjorn may have already screwed this whole thing up. Dana doesn't even have to address any concerns raised by the association, he just has to say Bjork 3 or 4 times a minute and everyone laughs and that's it.

Fatal flaw. I honestly think this will fail now because of it.

I do however think some type of organizing effort is inevitable.

[Cammo101]

On another note, I really think Bjorn may have already screwed this whole thing up. Dana doesn't even have to address any concerns raised by the association, he just has to say Bjork 3 or 4 times a minute and everyone laughs and that's it.

Fatal flaw. I honestly think this will fail now because of it.

I do however think some type of organizing effort is inevitable.

100% agree on all counts. Bjorn's involvement drove a stake through this from the jump off. But, the idea of a fighter's union is definitely gaining steam.

[Cammo101]

Better hope they didn't alienate Conor too much by stripping him. Last we heard, he didn't feel like he was being taken care of quite enough.

Ronda is said to want another fight or two then be done.

GSP is already well alienated, obviously.

This whole thing pretty much hinges on their ability to get the top 10 or so names in the UFC to participate. If they can get most or all, they could do some damage. If not, it's gonna be uphill sledding.

[NZB2323]

Better hope they didn't alienate Conor too much by stripping him. Last we heard, he didn't feel like he was being taken care of quite enough.

Ronda is said to want another fight or two then be done.

GSP is already well alienated, obviously.

This whole thing pretty much hinges on their ability to get the top 10 or so names in the UFC to participate. If they can get most or all, they could do some damage. If not, it's gonna be uphill sledding.

Well, GSP is a top 10 name. If Cain becomes HW champion he'll get publicity; same with Cormier as LHW champion if he comes on board. Cowboy's popularity is rising. I don't even know how you'd rank the top 10 names though.

[REDDzone]

I kind of feel like it goes:

1) Conor
2) Ronda







3) GSP


4-10) a jumble and always changing. Is it Jones? Diaz bros, Anderson, Cowboy, Cyborg.

IDK who the top 10 is but its definitely not some concrete group.

[Susan]

I kind of feel like it goes:

1) Conor
2) Ronda







3) GSP


4-10) a jumble and always changing. Is it Jones? Diaz bros, Anderson, Cowboy, Cyborg.

IDK who the top 10 is but its definitely not some concrete group.

I think we'll see that the Ronda bubble has burst. She is like Mike Tyson after he lost now. Here star is descending and she's already talking about leaving the sport and her mom is openly questioning why she's coming back.

[NO-KG-AI]

I think the Diaz bros and Anderson Silva are bigger names in the US than anybody that isn't Conor and Ronda.

[Jasen777]

I think we'll see that the Ronda bubble has burst. She is like Mike Tyson after he lost now. Here star is descending and she's already talking about leaving the sport and her mom is openly questioning why she's coming back.

She's got at least one more great PPV sells left in her though (maybe more if she wins). For now she is still #2 or #3 (depending on what a GSP comeback would do).

[REDDzone]

I think the Diaz bros and Anderson Silva are bigger names in the US than anybody that isn't Conor and Ronda.

I don't agree those guys are bigger than GSP. But this is actually somewhat of an empirical question right. Do we have any idea what GSP/Nick did relative to Anderson/Nick in terms of PPV sales?

[NO-KG-AI]

I think the Diaz bros and Anderson Silva are bigger names in the US than anybody that isn't Conor and Ronda.

I don't agree those guys are bigger than GSP. But this is actually somewhat of an empirical question right. Do we have any idea what GSP/Nick did relative to Anderson/Nick in terms of PPV sales?

I dunno about right now man. Nick and especially Nate are really hot names just because of the Conor drama.

[NO-KG-AI]

On second thought, we're both wrong. It's Brock. But I think Silva/Weidman was the biggest card that didn't involve Conor/Ronda/Brock.

[Jasen777]

I don't agree those guys are bigger than GSP. But this is actually somewhat of an empirical question right. Do we have any idea what GSP/Nick did relative to Anderson/Nick in terms of PPV sales?

GSP vs Diaz 950,000, Silva vs Diaz 650,000. That 650,000 though is higher than every card without Rousey or Conor since the GSP vs. Diaz card (including GSP/Hendricks) with the exception of 200 (which did have Silva and Brock, etc) and Jones/Cormier. Jones' next fight with OSP was 425,000 - Cormier's next with Gustafsson was 250,000.

http://mmapayout.com/blue-book/pay-per-view/

But it's hard to say if that's enough to get Silva (after recent issues) or one of the Diaz's to 4th.

[Jasen777]

On second thought, we're both wrong. It's Brock. But I think Silva/Weidman was the biggest card that didn't involve Conor/Ronda/Brock.

Silva/Weidman II almost was (1,025,000), the first was 550,000. But UFC 66 - Liddell v. Ortiz II (1,050,000) was higher.

[REDDzone]

I think Silva's star has diminished a ton relative to GSP. GSP has still not lost whereas Silva lost four times, including a loss to Michael Bisping on fightpass lol. Could you imagine a world where GSP fights on anything other than PPV? Much less on fightpass.

[NZB2323]

I think the Diaz bros and Anderson Silva are bigger names in the US than anybody that isn't Conor and Ronda.

Is Nick Diaz really a bigger name than GSP, Mighty Mouse, Dominick Cruz, Jon Jones, Daniel Cormier, Cain Valesquez, or Michael Bisping? The last time Nick Diaz won a UFC fight was in 2011. Cowboy was on the same fight card and won, and has won 16 UFC fights since then, getting a fight of the night, a KO of the night, a sub of the night, and performance of the night 5 times. Is Nick Diaz really a bigger name than Cowboy?

If the UFC did lose Cowboy to Bellator, Cowboy could be on every Bellator card.

[NO-KG-AI]

Yes. Nick or Nate is less likely to sell an MMA fan a PPV, but yea, more random people know the Diaz boys lately.