Cammo Counts Down The Top 100 Fighters In MMA History (3rd Edition)

[Cammo101]

You can also pick and choose which wins you want to claim are his biggest, which is exactly what you've done. Pre - USADA Barnett/Mir/Big Foot are not MWS. Nor is AJ.

I chose the ones highest on this list. It wasn't exactly random. Silva and Hendo are by far the biggest scalps on his resume.

You're just playing games again.

He shouldn't be held back because he once beat name guys past their primes. Everyone beats guys past their prime. Also, why did you specifically select two names? Only because there are two specific names and it helps make your bull case. You're playing games.

If a team beat Jordan's Wizards in the playoffs, that's the biggest name they could possibly beat. Ever. You beat "Jordan", in the EC playoffs. But now we are cleverly able to demote that team because it was Jordan in Washington as a 38 y/o? Say, that team goes onto win the championship. You're going to go back and, say, well the biggest name they beat in that run was Jordan and he was past his prime. That's exactly what you just did.

You're a bull artist.

Wins in title fights:

Chuck: 5
DC: 4


Wins over fighters on this list:

Chuck: 9
DC: 5 (but we can call it 7 because Rumble was the last guy out)


Fights against fighters on this list:

Chuck: 15
DC: 6 (7 if you count the Jones NC...9 if you count Rumble)


It seems like the only real rational for DC over Chuck is the belief that prime DC would totally beat up prime Chuck. Even if DC beat prime Hendo and prime Silva, the resume still isn't there.

[cowboyronnie]

"This list" doesn't mean ****. The pool was tiny when Chuck was in his prime, he couldn't turn his head without making eye contact w someone who would be on the list.

Also, DC started MMA when he was like 29 and was in SF for years. Of course he has less UFC title fights. THESE AREN'T COMPARABLE. You know what is comparable? DC has no uncontested losses. None. Remind me, does Chuck have many losses?

Oh but they're losses to people on this list. So valuable.

[cowboyronnie]

For the record, Cormier started MMA when he was 30, has been competing for 8.5 years and has been in Zuffa for less than 5.

So, strangely enough, he - despite having no uncontested losses - doesn't have the same number of wins as Chuck Liddell (who is 21 Ws and 8 Ls, w/ 6 KO losses).

[Susan]

Saying 205 is weak now is crazy.

Vitor, Chuck, Tito and Randy vs Jones, DC, Gus, Rumble?

Vitor was in the back half of the top 10 in PRIDE
Randy wasn't ever considered the best 205er in the world at any point of his career
Tito had the sport pass him by pretty quickly
Chuck got KTFO by Rampage twice

Hell, I'd take the PRIDE 205 division over that UFC 205 division at the time. Wand, Shogun, Hendo, Lil Nog, Arona, Overeem, Rampage.

Just not sure why Chuck (and Tim Sylvia, Shawn Sherk, Andrei Arlovski) is so overrated here. The UFC from 2002-05 was the second best org in the world.

[Susan]

"This list" doesn't mean ****. The pool was tiny when Chuck was in his prime, he couldn't turn his head without making eye contact w someone who would be on the list.

Also, DC started MMA when he was like 29 and was in SF for years. Of course he has less UFC title fights. THESE AREN'T COMPARABLE. You know what is comparable? DC has no uncontested losses. None. Remind me, does Chuck have many losses?

Oh but they're losses to people on this list. So valuable.

Don't underrate the Dean of Mean.

[Jasen777]

I chose the ones highest on this list. It wasn't exactly random. Silva and Hendo are by far the biggest scalps on his resume.

You're just playing games again.

He shouldn't be held back because he once beat name guys past their primes. Everyone beats guys past their prime. Also, why did you specifically select two names? Only because there are two specific names and it helps make your bull case. You're playing games.

If a team beat Jordan's Wizards in the playoffs, that's the biggest name they could possibly beat. Ever. You beat "Jordan", in the EC playoffs. But now we are cleverly able to demote that team because it was Jordan in Washington as a 38 y/o? Say, that team goes onto win the championship. You're going to go back and, say, well the biggest name they beat in that run was Jordan and he was past his prime. That's exactly what you just did.

You're a bull artist.

Wins in title fights:

Chuck: 5
DC: 4


Wins over fighters on this list:

Chuck: 9
DC: 5 (but we can call it 7 because Rumble was the last guy out)


Fights against fighters on this list:

Chuck: 15
DC: 6 (7 if you count the Jones NC...9 if you count Rumble)


It seems like the only real rational for DC over Chuck is the belief that prime DC would totally beat up prime Chuck. Even if DC beat prime Hendo and prime Silva, the resume still isn't there.

You left out losses

Chuck: 8
D.C: 1

Chuck is 9-6? (Horn didn't make the list did he?), against fighters on the list with losses to 2 others.

D.C. is 5-1, 7-1 if you count Rumble, with no losses to other fighters.

Even worse case assumptions, it's harder to be 5-1 (7-1 counting a guy you said you should have put in the list) against top fighters than 9-6 (with some extra losses).

Does D.C. improve his rank if he goes 2-4 in his next 6 fights?

[NZB2323]

Are we sure that prime DC beats prime Cain Valesquez?

I guess I'm somewhere in the middle. I would rank Wand above DC but DC above Chuck, but I value longevity, not just how good someone was in their prime. Yeah DC started MMA when he was in his 30s. That hurts him in the all-time ranking.

Brock Lesnar and Randy Couture also fought in the UFC in their 30s, but we don't give them brownie points for thinking of how much they could have accomplished if they started in their 20s. Prime Brock Lesnar could also beat a lot of guys that I have ranked ahead of him, but those guys had longer careers and accomplished more.

EDIT: I'd also rank prime Larry Bird ahead of prime Magic Johnson and prime Charles Barkley ahead of prime Karl Malone, but when ranking careers I'm putting Magic above Bird and Malone over Barkley.

[REDDzone]

What do losses count for here? I understand guys lose later in their careers and you don't want to kill them for that. But a guy like Chuck has 4-5 losses in his PRIME. DC got decisioned once by Jon Jones and no other fight has really been close. I guess Gus fight was close but still a clear DC victory.

[Cammo101]

Brock Lesnar and Randy Couture also fought in the UFC in their 30s, but we don't give them brownie points for thinking of how much they could have accomplished if they started in their 20s. Prime Brock Lesnar could also beat a lot of guys that I have ranked ahead of him, but those guys had longer careers and accomplished more.

Exactly. I have no doubt that had DC started MMA at 24 he'd be comfortably ahead of Chuck. But, if you start playing the "what if" game, it is a very slippery slope. I've stated from the beginning this list isn't the #4 guy could beat up the #6 guy, it is based mostly on accomplishments and quality wins, because that is pretty much the only way to separate guys at this level.

Fighters are constantly getting bigger, faster, and stronger. So the new guys will be, for the most part, better fighters than the older guys. Albert Pujols is a better baseball player than Babe Ruth, but he didn't accomplish as much.

[Cammo101]

What do losses count for here? I understand guys lose later in their careers and you don't want to kill them for that. But a guy like Chuck has 4-5 losses in his PRIME. DC got decisioned once by Jon Jones and no other fight has really been close. I guess Gus fight was close but still a clear DC victory.

They matter, but losses don't ding guys as much as quality wins help them. MMA is that weird sport where the occasional loss isn't a huge deal and many of the elite fighters have more than you'd expect. DC's dominance certainly helped him here, he's just at a disadvantage because he started late and hasn't fought as many elite guys as the top of this list. Brock is in the same boat.

[Cammo101]

1. Georges "Rush" St. Pierre (2)



Longtime UFC WW champion and current-ish MW champion, GSP was so close to the #1 spot last time. A return to win the MW title pushed him into the top spot.

[Cammo101]

Let's see if the curse of the top spot takes down GSP. It sure didn't do Silva or Jones any favors.

[High 5]

Are we sure that prime DC beats prime Cain Valesquez?

I guess I'm somewhere in the middle. I would rank Wand above DC but DC above Chuck, but I value longevity, not just how good someone was in their prime. Yeah DC started MMA when he was in his 30s. That hurts him in the all-time ranking.

Brock Lesnar and Randy Couture also fought in the UFC in their 30s, but we don't give them brownie points for thinking of how much they could have accomplished if they started in their 20s. Prime Brock Lesnar could also beat a lot of guys that I have ranked ahead of him, but those guys had longer careers and accomplished more.

EDIT: I'd also rank prime Larry Bird ahead of prime Magic Johnson and prime Charles Barkley ahead of prime Karl Malone, but when ranking careers I'm putting Magic above Bird and Malone over Barkley.

I don't see the longevity argument. DC has had a strong 8+ years in Strikeforce/UFC. Wand had about 7 good years in UFC/Pride before finishing 4-8. Chuck had about 8 before finishing 1-5. Those extra years don't mean much when it's mostly a fighter getting their head beat in. Still, I can live with Wand being ranked higher for now, but DC should absolutely move ahead if he beats Stipe.

[REDDzone]

I've had GSP as #1 for awhile now due to his resume and lack of multiple failed drug tests. I really don't care that he came back and beat the #8ish best middleweight.

[Cammo101]

I've had GSP as #1 for awhile now due to his resume and lack of multiple failed drug tests. I really don't care that he came back and beat the #8ish best middleweight.

I'm not dinging guys for failing drug tests, but he certainly deserves credit for fighting clean when a lot of these guys at the top weren't.

[Nemesis21]

I've had GSP as #1 for awhile now due to his resume and lack of multiple failed drug tests. I really don't care that he came back and beat the #8ish best middleweight.

I'm not dinging guys for failing drug tests, but he certainly deserves credit for fighting clean when a lot of these guys at the top weren't.

Which is crazy, because I've always thought in the back of my mind that he is/was a juicer. But he's never been popped. Chit maybe Jon Jones should call up GSP and see what his secret to passing drug tests is.

[NO-KG-AI]

If Yoel Romero is clean enough to pass tests, and he’s not juicing, I dunno what is even life.


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[Jasen777]

If Yoel Romero is clean enough to pass tests, and he’s not juicing, I dunno what is even life.

He has literally every red flag.

[NO-KG-AI]

Yoel Romero singlehandedly makes me question how good USADA actually is, lol.


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[REDDzone]

I'm convinced the Cubans did some kind of chemical experiments on him as he was coming up in their wrestling program. Like some comic book sh*t.