Boxing Thread 5

[Knickfan1982]

Canelo did what he had to do. But I gotta say, he didn’t exactly look impressive against an older fighter, and seemed to be a bit gassed in the later rounds. If he fights Bivol again, it’s going to be the same result. There was nothing he did in this fight to suggest otherwise.

Hot take: Canelo is still an elite fighter, but is starting to slowly decline from his prime. Reminds me of Pacquiao after he beat Mosley. He beat Mosley convincingly, but you could tell he lost a step in the ring.

Too much bouncing around weight classes. Putting on muscle, taking it off then putting it back on. It probably took its toll. Not as bad as when RJJ went from light heavyweight to heavyweight and then back but still. While I think he should try to avenge his loss to Bivol its probably for the best if he stuck around 168. He'd probably fight John Ryder next (an Eddie Hearn linked boxer) if he does.

[Knickfan1982]

To the surprise of no one, father time has caught up to GGG. Dude looking his age tonight. It was a fun ride while it lasted.

Bring on Charlo or Benevidez.

As I said...this fight was at least 3 years too late. The only hope was that GGG would be reguvinated by not having to cut to 160 but at the end of the day the difference in speed always made this a tough matchup for GGG and he's just gotten slower as he aged.

It should just be legacy fights for him here on out. Maybe Erislandy Lara. Maybe drag Billy Joe Saunders out of a bar to make that matchup. Maybe Jaime Mungia. He's not overly quick and very hittable.

[Butch718]

Canelo did what he had to do. But I gotta say, he didn’t exactly look impressive against an older fighter, and seemed to be a bit gassed in the later rounds. If he fights Bivol again, it’s going to be the same result. There was nothing he did in this fight to suggest otherwise.

Hot take: Canelo is still an elite fighter, but is starting to slowly decline from his prime. Reminds me of Pacquiao after he beat Mosley. He beat Mosley convincingly, but you could tell he lost a step in the ring.

Too much bouncing around weight classes. Putting on muscle, taking it off then putting it back on. It probably took its toll. Not as bad as when RJJ went from light heavyweight to heavyweight and then back but still. While I think he should try to avenge his loss to Bivol its probably for the best if he stuck around 168. He'd probably fight John Ryder next (an Eddie Hearn linked boxer) if he does.

He also has a more wear and tear recently compared to other active prize fighters that fight once (maybe twice) a year. He’s pushed himself to be consistently active the last 2 years. I think a little bit of a layoff might do him so good. The Bivol fight was only 4 months ago.

[cowboyronnie]

A mediocre fight. Other than a couple late rounds.

The old GGG could have really messed up Canelo during the 9th when he had him on the ropes. But he just did not have that lead hand work or the snap on his left. Canelo was squared and stiff...that was the position that allowed GGG to finish countless previous opponents.

[cowboyronnie]

It would be a bummer if the explanation of Canelo's performance were age. I really think a fight with Benevidez is top 3 matchups to make in the sport. But that's a tough night for anyone.

[Knickfan1982]

Canelo did what he had to do. But I gotta say, he didn’t exactly look impressive against an older fighter, and seemed to be a bit gassed in the later rounds. If he fights Bivol again, it’s going to be the same result. There was nothing he did in this fight to suggest otherwise.

Hot take: Canelo is still an elite fighter, but is starting to slowly decline from his prime. Reminds me of Pacquiao after he beat Mosley. He beat Mosley convincingly, but you could tell he lost a step in the ring.

Too much bouncing around weight classes. Putting on muscle, taking it off then putting it back on. It probably took its toll. Not as bad as when RJJ went from light heavyweight to heavyweight and then back but still. While I think he should try to avenge his loss to Bivol its probably for the best if he stuck around 168. He'd probably fight John Ryder next (an Eddie Hearn linked boxer) if he does.

He also has a more wear and tear recently compared to other active prize fighters that fight once (maybe twice) a year. He’s pushed himself to be consistently active the last 2 years. I think a little bit of a layoff might do him so good. The Bivol fight was only 4 months ago.

We will see. He's gonna take time off to heal his hand. We'll see how he looks when he gets back.

[BlackThought]

I think for starters Canelo should just stay at 168 and not go up to 175 again. Forget about the Bivol rematch. Guys like Bivol, Beterbiev, Zurdo are all too big for him. I think Bivol could lose against Zurdo or Beterbiev and that would make people forget about the loss for Canelo.

Get a couple fights with Jermall Charlo, maybe a fight in the UK against Chris Eubank, and a all Mexican matchup with Jamie Munguia.

[Knickfan1982]

I think for starters Canelo should just stay at 168 and not go up to 175 again. Forget about the Bivol rematch. Guys like Bivol, Beterbiev, Zurdo are all too big for him. I think Bivol could lose against Zurdo or Beterbiev and that would make people forget about the loss for Canelo.

Get a couple fights with Jermall Charlo, maybe a fight in the UK against Chris Eubank, and a all Mexican matchup with Jamie Munguia.

Those are all well and good except A) Canelo has already poo poo'ed the idea of facing guys like Charlo and Andrade B) he doesn't want to face other Mexicans like Munguia and is particularly annoyed at the idea of facing David Benevidez. If he's not going to go back up to 175 and he's not going to make these other fights then his future fights look pretty lame. John Ryder. Chris Eubanks Jr. Just ewww.

[BlackThought]

I think for starters Canelo should just stay at 168 and not go up to 175 again. Forget about the Bivol rematch. Guys like Bivol, Beterbiev, Zurdo are all too big for him. I think Bivol could lose against Zurdo or Beterbiev and that would make people forget about the loss for Canelo.

Get a couple fights with Jermall Charlo, maybe a fight in the UK against Chris Eubank, and a all Mexican matchup with Jamie Munguia.

Those are all well and good except A) Canelo has already poo poo'ed the idea of facing guys like Charlo and Andrade B) he doesn't want to face other Mexicans like Munguia and is particularly annoyed at the idea of facing David Benevidez. If he's not going to go back up to 175 and he's not going to make these other fights then his future fights look pretty lame. John Ryder. Chris Eubanks Jr. Just ewww.

I watched like his last 8 fights and now I think I have a decent idea regarding who Canelo should fight and who he shouldn't. Basically Canelo has problems with anyone who isn't bothered by his power. He's not a volume guy and he has stamina issues so he can't outwork his opponents. Any time the fight goes 12 Canelo will need to rely on judges that usually favor him. Sometimes the fight is so one sided like in the Bivol fight that even judges can't save him.

Guys like Plant, BJS, Jacobs, all had problems dealing with Canelo's power. A regular Kovalev especially the one that beat Elider Alvarez in the rematch likely beats Canelo but he was too old and too beaten up in his previous fight and ran out of gas. GGG and Callum Smith could take Canelo power but both were way too slow to do any damage of their own. GGG was due to old age and Callum Smith is just naturally too slow.

If Canelo fights Bivol or Zurdo both guys can handle Canelo's power easily and will likely just outbox him. I don't think either guy can knock Canelo out so if the fights happen Canelo always have a shot at winning via controversial decision. In the other thread I said I don't see Canelo fighting Benevidez because Benevidez not only can handle Canelo's power, he actually has big power and handspeed that can hurt Canelo. So in my opinion Benevidez would be the 2nd worst matchup behind Beterbiev.

If I'm Canelo's promoter I would just keep fighting guys like Charlo/Eubank/Munguia. Basically guys that is coming up from 160. Those guys will have problems handling Canelo's power. When an opponent can't handle Canelo's power chances are he won't be able to outbox him at least not to the point where the judges can't save Canelo. So it'll either be an easy decision or better yet a KO if Canelo lands something big.

[Knickfan1982]

Wow....the PPV undercard for Paul vs. Anderson Silva is looking like the worst PPV undercard I've seen in a while.



https://www.boxingscene.com/jake-paul-vs-anderson-silva-official-ppv-undercard-information--169190

[cowboyronnie]

GGG is still a bigger draw than anyone else at 168 or 160. It’s also an easier fight to sell and promote to the general public. That’s easy guaranteed money for Canelo.

I have heard a lot of even just moderate boxing fans bawk at it. And EVERY hardcore fan. *Everyone* who knows boxing hates this. I've seen some big names in the media say they wouldn't even bother watching it (like Shawn Porter).

If you lose every serious boxing fan, a significant number of casuals will follow. This isn't a Jake Paul fight where casuals might independently get into it because of personalities. These are two unbelievably boring dudes (out of the ring) and actual boxing fans do not want to see fight again. I don't think it will do numbers.

A fight against Benevidez would be bigger. Every PPV buyer, hardcore to casual, would get hyped for that. The violence of it would be nuts. Their combined highlights are a hellscape of dudes getting **** crushed.

lol casuals and hardcore boxing fans will watch this all the same. I’ve heard that **** about so many fights in the past. This fight is going to sell and I’d put money on how confident I am about that. People love to complain, but they end up watching dog **** anyway.

Lol. It did 550-575,000 buys, per Dan Rafael. Terrible numbers.

The first one did 1.3 million.

The Bivol fight did 510-550.

A massive failure, given the huge guarantees for both Canelo and GGG. Almost 2.5x more spent on their purses and a fraction of the revenue.

[Butch718]

I have heard a lot of even just moderate boxing fans bawk at it. And EVERY hardcore fan. *Everyone* who knows boxing hates this. I've seen some big names in the media say they wouldn't even bother watching it (like Shawn Porter).

If you lose every serious boxing fan, a significant number of casuals will follow. This isn't a Jake Paul fight where casuals might independently get into it because of personalities. These are two unbelievably boring dudes (out of the ring) and actual boxing fans do not want to see fight again. I don't think it will do numbers.

A fight against Benevidez would be bigger. Every PPV buyer, hardcore to casual, would get hyped for that. The violence of it would be nuts. Their combined highlights are a hellscape of dudes getting **** crushed.

lol casuals and hardcore boxing fans will watch this all the same. I’ve heard that **** about so many fights in the past. This fight is going to sell and I’d put money on how confident I am about that. People love to complain, but they end up watching dog **** anyway.

Lol. It did 550-575,000 buys, per Dan Rafael. Terrible numbers.

The first one did 1.3 million.

The Bivol fight did 510-550.

A massive failure, given the huge guarantees for both Canelo and GGG. Almost 2.5x more spent on their purses and a fraction of the revenue.

Sad thing is, not many fighters are pulling anywhere close to these type of PPV numbers with the exception of Fury/Wilder. Spence, Tank and Crawford definitely don’t have this kind of pull either.

I did read somewhere that they made 22 mil off the gate for this fight, so it offsets them losing money that went to GGG and Canelo.

The PPV model is also kinda dead. No one these days has the pull of Pacquiao or Mayweather. Those two, especially Floyd were pulling over 1 mil for each PPV during their primes.

[cowboyronnie]

Right. But Canelo can hit 500 alone against v
any decent opp. They paid Bivol 2 million and got about the same number of buys. GGG got 20 million.

I said from the start that this fight did not make financial sense. Matchroom might well lose money. In fact, they almost surely did,even w gate and DaZn subs.

[Knickfan1982]

lol casuals and hardcore boxing fans will watch this all the same. I’ve heard that **** about so many fights in the past. This fight is going to sell and I’d put money on how confident I am about that. People love to complain, but they end up watching dog **** anyway.

Lol. It did 550-575,000 buys, per Dan Rafael. Terrible numbers.

The first one did 1.3 million.

The Bivol fight did 510-550.

A massive failure, given the huge guarantees for both Canelo and GGG. Almost 2.5x more spent on their purses and a fraction of the revenue.

Sad thing is, not many fighters are pulling anywhere close to these type of PPV numbers with the exception of Fury/Wilder. Spence, Tank and Crawford definitely don’t have this kind of pull either.

I did read somewhere that they made 22 mil off the gate for this fight, so it offsets them losing money that went to GGG and Canelo.

The PPV model is also kinda dead. No one these days has the pull of Pacquiao or Mayweather. Those two, especially Floyd were pulling over 1 mil for each PPV during their primes.

This fight was probably a financial disaster but what else is new from DAZN. 20 bucks a month for boxing and not much else. You can get HBO Max and Paramount Plus with ads for the price of DAZN but you'd have a hell of a lot more content to watch instead of only boxing. Canelo and GGG make way too much for a PPV to make money. Its hard to make money when your main event costs 70 million dollars by itself. Then you have to pay all the other fighters, the production crew and marketing the event. Lets say all that costs 100,000,000 million total. Lets say that 22 million dollar live get is accurate and for math's sake DAZN keeps all the gate and PPV revenue. DAZN would need to have sold a little over 918,000 PPVs $84.95 in order to break even. That's a lot nowadays for a PPV but with their history its possible. Here are the problems.

1. If you subscribed to DAZN the PPV only cost you $64.95. That would make a big difference because if (hypothetically speaking) all the sales were at that price DAZN would need to sell a little over 1.2 million ppvs at that price to break even as opposed to slightly over 900k. So even if only 15% of the sales were the discounted rate that is going to mean a significant revenue reduction.

2. PPV revenue doesn't go entirely to the promoter. I don't know if Canelo and GGG are taking flat fees for the fight or if they get a cut of the PPV revenue. I know for a fact that the PPV distributors get a cut of the PPV revenue. So regardless of how the purchases are divided between full priced and discounted PPV DAZN certainly isn't getting the full cut.

3. I am pretty sure the owners of the arena the event was held at get a cut of the live gate.


So if Dan Rafael is right then these guys lost a boatload of money on the show.

[cowboyronnie]

They could have had Charlo fight for $5-6 million and sold ~700,000 with the right promotion.

It sounds like Canelo's body and preparation were off. That's good to hear. No one wants him to already start declining when there are big 2-3 fights left to be fought. Hopefully he takes 8 months off and returns Mayish against a big name. I wouldn't even mind another crack at Bivol, given that seems to be what he is aiming at. God knows what he thinks he can do different but he wants it.

[cowboyronnie]

Damn, maybe Garcia does want that smoke.

135 is going to be a banner division as these various fighters mature (and/or they all move together to 140). I just hope one of them gives Loma shot early 2023 while he still has something of his prime left.

[Papi_swav]

Alot of fights tonight. Haney vs Kambosos was a waste, the first one was a blowout and we all knew this was going to be the same but they had a rematch clause so whatever. These 135 guys need to start fighting each other already . Gervonta, Haney, Teofimo, Ryan Garcia need to stop ducking and fight each other. They all seem to be scared of Lomachenko too.

Wilder put that guy to sleep in the 1st, not surprised. Would like to see a Wilder vs Joshua fight, 3-4 years too late on this one too.

[cowboyronnie]

LOL Wilder's power is supernatural. That was a sloppy arm punch, without hips, that traveled like 18 inches and contacted with the finger tip area of the glove not the knuckles. And didn't even hit the guy in the jaw, but in the nose.

Meanwhile, that dude didn't get off the canvas for like 5 minutes. WTF?

[cowboyronnie]

I'd rather see Usyk vs Wilder than Usyk vs Fury. It would be a totally different fight to see someone 220 beat Wilder than someone - Fury - at 270 do it. Can Usyk stay away from that sloppy right? Can he - at 220 - break down Wilder? There's tremendous drama.

[Dupp]

LOL Wilder's power is supernatural. That was a sloppy arm punch, without hips, that traveled like 18 inches and contacted with the finger tip area of the glove not the knuckles. And didn't even hit the guy in the jaw, but in the nose.

Meanwhile, that dude didn't get off the canvas for like 5 minutes. WTF?

I’ve watched this a 100 times and can’t for the life of me figure out what he actually hit him with.