2015 WWE Battleground Thread

[whysoserious]

No doubt that Owens is a great WWE talent, but at some level I do have an issue with a guy who looks fat and out of shape as the champ - while most of the guys on the roster appear to be better athuhletes. Not sure that's ultimately good for bidness - though I could be wrong - see Dusty Rhodes.

Heels don't always have to look like they're in the best shape. That dude can go and has a wide array of moves. He's kind of like Vader though maybe not as heavy but he can with any of the top guys right now, can carry a match and can prob go a long distance. There's different types of athletes even if your full on muscular and toned doesn't mean you're good enough to be a top guy but Owens has qualities that go well beyond just his look. And he came in so strong, stomped the US title that it was believable he'd take Cena down and they built it that way only for Cena to once again come out on top.

I love Cesaro as much as the next guy and want him to do well, but once again WWE had a perfect storm brewing to build a new star out of nowhere and instead they go to the boring old formula.

[Ruzious]

No doubt that Owens is a great WWE talent, but at some level I do have an issue with a guy who looks fat and out of shape as the champ - while most of the guys on the roster appear to be better athuhletes. Not sure that's ultimately good for bidness - though I could be wrong - see Dusty Rhodes.

Heels don't always have to look like they're in the best shape. That dude can go and has a wide array of moves. He's kind of like Vader though maybe not as heavy but he can with any of the top guys right now, can carry a match and can prob go a long distance. There's different types of athletes even if your full on muscular and toned doesn't mean you're good enough to be a top guy but Owens has qualities that go well beyond just his look. And he came in so strong, stomped the US title that it was believable he'd take Cena down and they built it that way only for Cena to once again come out on top.

I love Cesaro as much as the next guy and want him to do well, but once again WWE had a perfect storm brewing to build a new star out of nowhere and instead they go to the boring old formula.

Vader's a LOT bigger than Owens. The 6 man tag last night highlighted problems with featuring Owens at least in that type of setting. His relatively short dumpy build and ordinary athleticism stuck out in comparison to the other 5 supastars - he was clearly the shortest, fattest and least athletic. Not that he doesn't overcome that to an extent, but it's an obstacle, and while he's solid in the ring, he ain't no Daniel Bryan. Speaking of Vader, I remember him early in his rasslin career in the AWA - He was going under his real name - Leon White - because he was known fairly well for his football background at the time. He wrestled as a face and was absolutely horrible - looked like he would have gotten kicked off of Tough Enough in the first week. Someone must have taken him under their wing and done an amazing job with him. Either that, or the Gagne's had no clue as to what they had with him. Probably both.

[whysoserious]

Vader's a LOT bigger than Owens. The 6 man tag last night highlighted problems with featuring Owens at least in that type of setting. His relatively short dumpy build and ordinary athleticism stuck out in comparison to the other 5 supastars - he was clearly the shortest, fattest and least athletic. Not that he doesn't overcome that to an extent, but it's an obstacle, and while he's solid in the ring, he ain't no Daniel Bryan. Speaking of Vader, I remember him early in his rasslin career in the AWA - He was going under his real name - Leon White - because he was known fairly well for his football background at the time. He wrestled as a face and was absolutely horrible - looked like he would have gotten kicked off of Tough Enough in the first week. Someone must have taken him under their wing and done an amazing job with him. Either that, or the Gagne's had no clue as to what they had with him. Probably both.

But you're sticking to the Vince McMahon formula of what a star should look like. You said he doesn't look athletic as other guys to be a top star, so what? He can hang with all those guys. Sure he's no Daniel Bryan, few are, but he's also not just some big fat guy out there. The dude can wrestle and engage a crowd in his matches and he's way more athletic than you give him credit for. For a guy his size to go to the top rope and do some of the moves he does is incredible. That's where the Vader comparison came to my mind initially. Rarely do you see big guys like these two that can do some of the stuff they do. Vader slowed down later on and I admit that I missed a lot of his early career. Owens to me has way more in his arsenal now.

Not every star has to look a certain way and Owens look actually is perfect for a top heel. The question is can he ever transition to being a top face with this look. Not sure about that but he's got all the tools to be a top guy in the company and his supposed look that you've outlined should have no bearing on it.

I mean there's plenty of muscular fit guys in real life that i still wouldn't believe being able to beat a guy like Owens in real life.

[SDM]

PTP is toast, and it's a shame. Split them illogically when they were getting over, rushed the feud, Young gets injured, Titus does nothing. They're now back, we're supposed to forget what happened, and they were quickly made champs. They're killing the belt now and if they just stayed the course back in 2013, they could be a thing today.

What?

They were more over in 2013 than they are now
They should have never split them
They had a heatless, rushed feud (do you remember who won the one match they had? And what card?)
Titus did jack all and actually regressed in the ring while Young was out
They were suddenly pieced back together with no explanation or reference to their history
They were rushed into a title feud that was heatless
You could hear a pin drop when they won the titles
They were given the belts as a tool to help them get over
Feud is being carried by New Day
If PTP wasn't split, and was JUST NOW given the titles, they'd be far more over
Now they're going to fizzle out because WWE doesn't care about tag teams like they did in 2013
Being the tag title champs in 2015 means absolutely nothing

Blow my mind and show me which of these aforementioned statements is wrong. Better yet, recall this in three months and kiss my feet.

[Ruzious]

Vader's a LOT bigger than Owens. The 6 man tag last night highlighted problems with featuring Owens at least in that type of setting. His relatively short dumpy build and ordinary athleticism stuck out in comparison to the other 5 supastars - he was clearly the shortest, fattest and least athletic. Not that he doesn't overcome that to an extent, but it's an obstacle, and while he's solid in the ring, he ain't no Daniel Bryan. Speaking of Vader, I remember him early in his rasslin career in the AWA - He was going under his real name - Leon White - because he was known fairly well for his football background at the time. He wrestled as a face and was absolutely horrible - looked like he would have gotten kicked off of Tough Enough in the first week. Someone must have taken him under their wing and done an amazing job with him. Either that, or the Gagne's had no clue as to what they had with him. Probably both.

But you're sticking to the Vince McMahon formula of what a star should look like. You said he doesn't look athletic as other guys to be a top star, so what? He can hang with all those guys. Sure he's no Daniel Bryan, few are, but he's also not just some big fat guy out there. The dude can wrestle and engage a crowd in his matches and he's way more athletic than you give him credit for. For a guy his size to go to the top rope and do some of the moves he does is incredible. That's where the Vader comparison came to my mind initially. Rarely do you see big guys like these two that can do some of the stuff they do. Vader slowed down later on and I admit that I missed a lot of his early career. Owens to me has way more in his arsenal now.

Not every star has to look a certain way and Owens look actually is perfect for a top heel. The question is can he ever transition to being a top face with this look. Not sure about that but he's got all the tools to be a top guy in the company and his supposed look that you've outlined should have no bearing on it.

I mean there's plenty of muscular fit guys in real life that i still wouldn't believe being able to beat a guy like Owens in real life.

I said he can be a star - that's not even a question. It's about being the champion - or being at the Cena/Orton level - leading the company. Forget the Vader comparisons - he was a giant. Owens isn't even Dusty - Dusty was relatively tall. Owens is a relatively short fat guy - he's not a big guy. We saw him look like a shrimp compared to Rusev last night. Yes, he can be and already is a star. My issue is with him being one of the faces of the company.

[whysoserious]

Fair enough but I'm not looking at him as a face of the company. But I am looking at him as a top heel in the company and he can absolutely carry the title in that situation.

[studcrackers]

PTP is toast, and it's a shame. Split them illogically when they were getting over, rushed the feud, Young gets injured, Titus does nothing. They're now back, we're supposed to forget what happened, and they were quickly made champs. They're killing the belt now and if they just stayed the course back in 2013, they could be a thing today.

What?

They were more over in 2013 than they are now
They should have never split them
They had a heatless, rushed feud (do you remember who won the one match they had? And what card?)
Titus did jack all and actually regressed in the ring while Young was out
They were suddenly pieced back together with no explanation or reference to their history
They were rushed into a title feud that was heatless
You could hear a pin drop when they won the titles
They were given the belts as a tool to help them get over
Feud is being carried by New Day
If PTP wasn't split, and was JUST NOW given the titles, they'd be far more over
Now they're going to fizzle out because WWE doesn't care about tag teams like they did in 2013
Being the tag title champs in 2015 means absolutely nothing

Blow my mind and show me which of these aforementioned statements is wrong. Better yet, recall this in three months and kiss my feet.

They really weren't more over 2 years ago then they are now, but hey, keep telling yourself otherwise

[SDM]

I don't see how it's even debatable... go back and watch some 2013 PTP and compare and contrast. But you do you, homie.

[skbucks1985]

Kevin Owens is in many ways a far better athlete than John Cena. If John Cena decided to a top rope senton, or the moonsault where he switches positions on the top rope, or hell even the cannonball he couldn't do it as good as Owens. Cena pulls out the hurricanrana every now and again and it looks awkward as hell, his top rope leg drop usually looks clunky and let's not even talk about the springboard stunner. John Cena looking the way he does and having the strength he does shouldn't be doing any of those moves, but him doing them poorly and Owens doing them effortlessly demonstrates an area of athleticism where Owens is far superior.

And I've said this to others and I'm sure I've said the same thing here, this is an arena where I don't think the past is particularly instructive. 20-25 years ago Hulk Hogan ripping off his shirt and flexing was impressive, Ultimate Warrior posing was impressive, but there have been 2 societal changes during that time. First, people know what a steroid-addled body looks and a lot of people's reactions to Warrior and Hogan today would be there dick is an inch long. And MMA has become much more popular and we've seen that there's far from a perfect correlation with body types and fighting ability