WWE Payback 2016

[WRau1]

Finish was fine. You just don't like the result.

Result was fine, having Reigns kick out of 5 Styles finishers then pinning him w/ one spear is dumb.

So pretty much like any big time Indy match

Nah, if that were the case then Styles would've kicked out of at least one Spear.

[WRau1]

Overall, I liked the show. Good wrestling, weird booking.

[Spens1]

Kalisto beat Ryback in the pre-show and no one cares, seriously WWE what the hell are you going to do with the title, they need someone to get it off of Kalisto, not his fault but they clearly have lost all interest in him, almost wish he got released, went to Lucha Underground and actually was made compelling again.

Ziggler vs Baron, why, this whole match, just why. They could have made Baron tonight but they had to go with 50-50. Even with the Pin Baron should have written of Ziggler, like legit broken the man so they could write him off (so he could deal with any personal matters, he does deserve that much). Can't imagine Hunter being too happy that another one of his PC graduates is being ruined early onto the WWE tenures

Vaudvillians vs Enzo & Cass, oh god Enzo better be ok. I don't think i could deal with him being out, even with a concussion it isn't that bad (i mean its still bad but I was fearing the worse after i saw that bump). Hopefully its just a minor one and he can fully recover from it

Zayn vs Owens, match of the night, the sheer intensity of the match and just the rivalry, Owens being the dominant heel and Zayn being the underdog who fought tooth and nail, mix all those with this rivalry and damn. also Owens post match antics going into commentary was great

Miz vs Cesaro was decent, Miz went full MNM and brought on the red carpet, waiting for the fake paparazzi, why the sudden resurgence of him, have no idea from the WWE, but damn he is a good heel, Cesaro outwrestled him, and Maryse intervened to get Miz back the advantage. Looked like Cesaro got back into this and won then Sami Zayn ran in, attacked Owens and their fight crossed over. Clearly Sami vs Owens is getting involved in the IC picture, though they never should have been out of it in the first place (because Owens should have retained at Mania or Zayn should have won it).

Jericho vs Ambrose, meh it was good, but i didn't have any reason to really care for it, which is a worry for a guy who should be for all intents and purposes, the man in the WWE right now (Ambrose that is, though i wouldn't argue if Jericho was WWE champion since he's entertaining). It lacked the intensity of Owens vs Zayn, which was a similar match in fairness. Anyway common sense prevailed and Ambrose went over and hopefully he now gets involved in the WWE title picture again or at least goes onto feud with HHH as Shane's representative or something like that

um, did they actually really do that finish for charlotte vs natalya. *sigh* Brett, grab a steel chair and hit vince in the back of the head, HARD. Anyway please be done with the feud, it was horrible (mainly because Natalya is the worst promo in the company right now aside from Reigns)

VInce's announcement, oh hell no, shane vs authority, blegh. Though CM Punk chants was you don't walk into Chicago and not expect this, no amount of editing could possibly fix that. Simply put CM Punk is a god in Chicago, they won't forget the best wrestler to ever come out of the city. Anyway clearly Mania didn't matter, should have had Shane go over. Tonight should have done something other than put the McMahons on the screen even more than before and it means the return of the authority which is going to be absolutely brutal after these last few weeks of good raws.

anyway roman looked op, styles did his job clearly (oh and the job, someone said 5 finishers) still though, roman got destroyed by the crowd. Roman m8 expand your moveset please, Roman can wrestle but it doesn't help when he repeats the same 3 moves over and over again. Finish was dissapointing given that they teased balor coming out, they should have had him come out tonight and lay out both men. I could honestly say that the Uso's could have questions of Roman though (kayfabe of course because its still real to me dammit ) due to the fact that he threw AJ into them. Match had good psychology i guess though which doesn't happen often, 2nd best match of the night behind Zayn vs Owens (though Zayn vs Owens has a huge advantage since they have had plenty of matches with each other)

[improper]

anyway roman looked op, styles did his job clearly (oh and the job, someone said 5 finishers) still though, roman got destroyed by the crowd. Roman m8 expand your moveset please, Roman can wrestle but it doesn't help when he repeats the same 3 moves over and over again. Finish was dissapointing given that they teased balor coming out, they should have had him come out tonight and lay out both men. I could honestly say that the Uso's could have questions of Roman though (kayfabe of course because its still real to me dammit ) due to the fact that he threw AJ into them. Match had good psychology i guess though which doesn't happen often, 2nd best match of the night behind Zayn vs Owens (though Zayn vs Owens has a huge advantage since they have had plenty of matches with each other)

Eh, I'd say Cesaro/Miz was the second best match of the night. Third was Kalisto/Ryback. Fourth was probably a three way mediocrity tie between the main event, the women's match, and Jericho/Ambrose. Styles did about as well as you'd expect him to given Roman's limitations, but man Roman just keeps getting exposed in these long title matches. His move set isn't nearly varied enough to carry a straight wrestling match that long. He'll probably do better at Extreme Rules, but the man really needs to learn a couple more moves.

Compare it to Zayn/Owens and it's like night and day. Those guys probably did thirty different moves combined. I don't think Reigns has done ten different moves in his entire career.

[skbucks1985]

So just got back from the show

There are certain guys that come off better in person than on TV and Corbin's one of those guys. I think a lot of his heel nuances are subtle enough and with a crappy announce team that does a piss poor job of highlighting them they can easily be missed. But they shine through watching him in person. That result didn't do much to help him.

I don't think much of Ryback and his upside overall, but he was a lot of fun tonight. Maybe it was a Chicago thing because he was willing to troll the crowd about Punk. I don't know if they think saying Kalisto is from Mexico will increase his popularity among Hispanics, but Kalisto is from Chicago and I think having a backstage promo where he mentions that could've done him some good although he got a better reaction than I thought he would.

New Day was the most over act on the show. I thought there material tonight was kind of a miss but the crowd ate it up. Enzo and Cass are also super over as well. In contrast to the above, they don't tell us anything about Enzo's condition and I'm not sure why. I knew something was wrong when I was watching Gotch and English and for the first few seconds they were heeling it up a bit and then you could see there body language immediately change and then a few seconds later the refs called the match.

Owens-Zayn was tremendous, especially considering what they were being asked to follow. I like, or at least hope, that this is part of a slow build with Zayn like they did with him in NXT. Owens' post-match shenanigans were the best. I don't know if this made the PPV or not but when Owens went to sit over at the announce table the only extra chairs were the metal folding chairs so he took Saxton's chair and made him sit on the folding chair.

Miz-Cesaro was solid. I don't remember if I've ever seen a handful of tights finish or the visual tap that the ref misses on a show before but its very much a made-for-TV finish. I didn't see Miz or hear tap and was at the opposite angle of where Miz was when he rolled him up so I had no idea he grabbed a handful of tights.

Jericho-Ambrose was decent, probably went a little too long. Highlight was Jericho's post-match hissy fit.

Nattie-Charlotte was pretty solid... then the finish happened. Montreal redux but they've also amalgamated it with the Little Naitch story where he was the crooked referee helping David Flair win matches. The stereo sharpshooters were a really cool spot

I think criticizing a crowd is for the most part stupid but when I do its for self-indulgent things like "We are awesome". And the CM Punk chants at Vince were not like a couple years ago when people chanted it because they wanted him back, this time it was completely self-indulgent to try to get a reaction out of Vince and he knew it and I think was kinda amused by it. And I'm a hypocrite for participating in that self-indulgent chant. As for the segment itself, the Shane-Stephanie dynamic is so awkward and I don't think its completely intentional. In storyline Shane being in control reflects negatively on The Authority because if everyone was happy with them there wouldn't be an appetite for Shane in this role. But by most metrics the company is in worse shape than it was 7 years ago and him pointing that out has to be awkward for her.

I've said on here that the reason I bought tickets to this show was because I thought/hoped something memorable would happen in the main event so the fact that no such thing happened clouds my view on it. I didn't think the match itself was great. Overbooked as hell and I thought the interferences were pretty underwhelming in how they played out. And the beginning where AJ was doing the leg kicks, it felt like I was watching him wrestle Matt Morgan in TNA. Reigns is obviously a much bigger guy than AJ but he doesn't stand out in that way like Brock and isn't anywhere near being 7-foot.

[Stanford]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/CHRlSTOEFUR/status/726983158730756096[/tweet]

<3

[Dunthreevy]

Miz vs Cesaro was decent, Miz went full MNM and brought on the red carpet, waiting for the fake paparazzi, why the sudden resurgence of him, have no idea from the WWE, but damn he is a good heel, Cesaro outwrestled him, and Maryse intervened to get Miz back the advantage. Looked like Cesaro got back into this and won then Sami Zayn ran in, attacked Owens and their fight crossed over. Clearly Sami vs Owens is getting involved in the IC picture, though they never should have been out of it in the first place (because Owens should have retained at Mania or Zayn should have won it).

Ryder got his Wrestlemania moment and it honestly shocked everyone watching. Miz then winning it (with help from his wife) gets him awesome heat because Ryder just had his moment and the crowd was loving it, then boom! bad guy ruins it all. Miz is probably the best heel in the company. They put a returning Cesaro in the picture because it wouldn't make sense to have him in the World Title picture, since they're trying to put Roman over as this world beater. It's not believable to have Roman going over Cesaro because Cesaro can work circles around him in the ring (like AJ) but is also more physically gifted than Roman. That's where having AJ win that 4-way for the #1 contender match made a lot of sense (besides also being super over as a face). So you put Cesaro in the picture with Miz. Owens and Zayn didn't need the title to get over, their story does it for them. So by not having Owens or Zayn win at Mania, and going the route they did, it puts 4 guys over into a bigger spotlight, as opposed to just keeping Owens in the same position he was in, or giving Sami a slight bump. And if you add AJ getting bumped into the World Title picture, that Ryder win actually elevated 6 guys (Ryder, Miz, AJ, Cesaro, Owens, Zayn). They've now got a legitimately interesting IC title picture with 4 dudes who could very easily be the champion. IMO, having Ryder win it at Mania and then subsequently lose it the next night (because no one was actually interested in a Ryder title run) was the best thing they did at Mania because it helped build towards the future and made the IC title interesting.

[Flames24Rulz]

I think the result in the main event last night would've been met with much more favorability if Reigns/Usos turned and if Reigns didn't win clean. Everyone in our section was hoping that if Reigns was going to win, it would've been because of something like that. But of course, to no avail.

I'm fine with not debuting Balor yet -- from a selfish standpoint though, I was hoping like hell he would've came out last night. The reaction would've been deafening.

We were surrounded by kids around the age of 10 or so last night too, and even they couldn't stand Reigns If the kids aren't even buying into it, I don't know how they're going to continue having this guy as the main babyface of the company.

[Spens1]

Miz vs Cesaro was decent, Miz went full MNM and brought on the red carpet, waiting for the fake paparazzi, why the sudden resurgence of him, have no idea from the WWE, but damn he is a good heel, Cesaro outwrestled him, and Maryse intervened to get Miz back the advantage. Looked like Cesaro got back into this and won then Sami Zayn ran in, attacked Owens and their fight crossed over. Clearly Sami vs Owens is getting involved in the IC picture, though they never should have been out of it in the first place (because Owens should have retained at Mania or Zayn should have won it).

Ryder got his Wrestlemania moment and it honestly shocked everyone watching. Miz then winning it (with help from his wife) gets him awesome heat because Ryder just had his moment and the crowd was loving it, then boom! bad guy ruins it all. Miz is probably the best heel in the company. They put a returning Cesaro in the picture because it wouldn't make sense to have him in the World Title picture, since they're trying to put Roman over as this world beater. It's not believable to have Roman going over Cesaro because Cesaro can work circles around him in the ring (like AJ) but is also more physically gifted than Roman. That's where having AJ win that 4-way for the #1 contender match made a lot of sense (besides also being super over as a face). So you put Cesaro in the picture with Miz. Owens and Zayn didn't need the title to get over, their story does it for them. So by not having Owens or Zayn win at Mania, and going the route they did, it puts 4 guys over into a bigger spotlight, as opposed to just keeping Owens in the same position he was in, or giving Sami a slight bump. And if you add AJ getting bumped into the World Title picture, that Ryder win actually elevated 6 guys (Ryder, Miz, AJ, Cesaro, Owens, Zayn). They've now got a legitimately interesting IC title picture with 4 dudes who could very easily be the champion. IMO, having Ryder win it at Mania and then subsequently lose it the next night (because no one was actually interested in a Ryder title run) was the best thing they did at Mania because it helped build towards the future and made the IC title interesting.

i loved Ryder winning it but neither Ryder nor Miz winning it helped the title at the time (though Miz adding little nuances to his character has been a treat really, he's slowly getting back his mojo and becoming the Miz from 2011 again)

I agree that the Miz might be the best heel in the company (aside from roman reigns of course ) no one likes the man which is a hard thing to do. But the way they booked him prior to winning the title was lower-mid carder at best. They should have at least worked the Miz into a respectable position before putting it on him. Yeah Owens vs Zayn didn't need the title, but that feud would have helped the title big time, big time feuds make titles, and this was one that could have made the IC title damn big.

Think about it, if Owens vs Zayn was for the IC title on top of all their hatred in a long term feud would elevate that title to a level it hasn't been in years.

Now the Miz hasn't been a terrible champ by any extent but he is basically outclassed a lot by Cesaro, Owens and Zayn.

I agree in building a solid contention bracket of people who can challenge but to be honest, the US title needs it a hell of a lot more right now, if Miz took the title off of Kalisto (which should have been the ladder match but i digress), then Cesaro could go after the US title and have people going for that title whilst Owens and Zayn work for the IC title till summerslam when Zayn wins it.

[iMoreland]

These Reigns/Styles/Gallows/Anderson promos are cringeworthy

Edit: Meant to post this in the WWE TV thread

[improper]

Rewatched the Owens/Zayn match from last night and I think I liked it even more than I did on the first watch, probably because this time it didn't have that horrific Enzo injury looming over it. That made it a little hard to get into the first few minutes of the match last night, but obviously that wasn't an issue today. Just a really great match from start to finish, and a great pace that rarely slows down or relies on rest holds. It's clear that Owens and Zayn are two of the best guys in the WWE right now, and when you put them together they're absolute gold.

I also love that the match doesn't rely on false finishes. There was only one finisher delivered and it won the match. It was also a great example of how two guys who kayfabe hate each other go out there and wrestle like they hate each other. Too often you get matches where guys are supposed to be out for blood but wrestle like any other match. An example of that is Balor/Joe in London, although they rectified it with their Dallas match. It's nice to see guys go out there and convince us that they legitimately hate each other, and I get that feeling when I watch Owens and Zayn go at it even though I know it's not real.

Just a great job by both guys. I really hope they end up main eventing Wrestlemania next year. That match for the WWE title would be money. I can just imagine Zayn winning the Royal Rumble and Owens spending the next two months trying to destroy him so he can't make it to 'Mania.

[Dunthreevy]

Just re-watched the main event and it is really freaking good. The booking with the CO and then the DQ was a little wonky but the match itself was awesome. Both guys looked great. Roman's facial expressions and his selling have gotten REALLY good.