WWE SmackDown Discussion I

Moderators: Marcus, Stanford

loserX
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 33,608
And1: 6,919
Joined: Jun 29, 2006
       

Re: WWE SmackDown Discussion I 

Post#1381 » by loserX » Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:34 pm

improper wrote:
Brandon-Clyde wrote:
Shemy wrote:They shouldn't have had the "superstar shakeup" until after the shows first PPVs so we can clear out the post mania feuds we are going into payback where we clearly know who two winners are gonna be...gonna take a few weeks for smackdown to get back on track maybe longer ffs Jinder is gonna headline a PPV...did nakumara or Dillinger even feature on the show yesterday??

It's possible Jericho wins over Owens by DQ or count out. Notice how they have stated that if Jericho wins he moves to Smackdown but not that Owens would return to Raw if he lost. Jericho could win, Owens retain and both end up on Smackdown where the feud continues for at least one more ppv


It doesn't make any sense to continue the Jericho/Owens feud given that they're building a Styles/Owens feud on Smackdown. Also, I think Jericho is about to go on hiatus to tour with his band.


Agreed. And I don't think anyone honestly cares about "Jericho goes to Smackdown" as a stip; if they wanted him on Smackdown they'd have just put him there during the "shakeup".

Of course that assumes that WWE has a plan and is sticking to it, which is not a great assumption on my part.
Ruzious
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 32,374
And1: 2,034
Joined: Jul 17, 2001
       

Re: WWE SmackDown Discussion I 

Post#1382 » by Ruzious » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:20 pm

safi wrote:I'm higher on the Colon's than most people but god are they blowing it with American Alpha. There were those rumors a couple months ago about an Evolution-style stable with Owens and Joe and a lot of people said The Revival as a tag team and I thought American Alpha was a way better fit for a stable like that than The Revival. Jordan and Gable as these blue-chip athletes wearing suits with HHH talking about how great they are would be a real shot in the arm to them. Plus, unlike The Revival, I think these guys have singles runs in them. Not only that, I think if done correctly, I think Jordan could be the biggest star in the company in three years. I think his upside is that high.

I was very impressed that they had the Colon's win. Smackdown has upped the importance of 2 previously stale but outstanding teams - first with Usos and now with the Colons. They needed a big win like that, and it was accomplished without a PPV loss for AA. AA's got a long career ahead of them, and they shouldn't just start off at the top. Jordan looks like the real deal - almost like a young Angle - and Gable's a helluva tag team wrestler, but he's tiny, so what they should do is slowly show how good Gable can be - so when they do dominate the tag-team scene, they're believable rock stars. When they went up against Orton and Wyatt, they looked over-matched, frankly - they didn't look like they were ready. Building them up slowly over time is the way to go, imo. And... the Colons win added some unpredictability - which is a big asset for Smackdown. Mahal winning also adds unpredictablity, but maybe the wrong type - because I'm not sure the fans are going to ever be interested in him - especially when it's unclear if he's supposed to be a bad guy or a fan favorite. He's kinda hanging out in the twilight zone.
"Every dollar devoted to 9th seed is like money in the bank. You gotta spend money to lose money. Trade next year's 1st while you're at it, for that extra UNNGH! the team will need." - montestewart on Wizards management
safi
RealGM
Posts: 13,388
And1: 1,204
Joined: Apr 29, 2003

Re: WWE SmackDown Discussion I 

Post#1383 » by safi » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:45 pm

Ruzious wrote:
safi wrote:I'm higher on the Colon's than most people but god are they blowing it with American Alpha. There were those rumors a couple months ago about an Evolution-style stable with Owens and Joe and a lot of people said The Revival as a tag team and I thought American Alpha was a way better fit for a stable like that than The Revival. Jordan and Gable as these blue-chip athletes wearing suits with HHH talking about how great they are would be a real shot in the arm to them. Plus, unlike The Revival, I think these guys have singles runs in them. Not only that, I think if done correctly, I think Jordan could be the biggest star in the company in three years. I think his upside is that high.

I was very impressed that they had the Colon's win. Smackdown has upped the importance of 2 previously stale but outstanding teams - first with Usos and now with the Colons. They needed a big win like that, and it was accomplished without a PPV loss for AA. AA's got a long career ahead of them, and they shouldn't just start off at the top. Jordan looks like the real deal - almost like a young Angle - and Gable's a helluva tag team wrestler, but he's tiny, so what they should do is slowly show how good Gable can be - so when they do dominate the tag-team scene, they're believable rock stars. When they went up against Orton and Wyatt, they looked over-matched, frankly - they didn't look like they were ready. Building them up slowly over time is the way to go, imo. And... the Colons win added some unpredictability - which is a big asset for Smackdown. Mahal winning also adds unpredictablity, but maybe the wrong type - because I'm not sure the fans are going to ever be interested in him - especially when it's unclear if he's supposed to be a bad guy or a fan favorite. He's kinda hanging out in the twilight zone.


I have zero problem with the Colon's winning that match. Those guys are super-talented and have been saddled with a host of bad gimmicks. My problem is with the way American Alpha has been presented for the last 9 months. The Smackdown tag division was really bad and these guys were in 50-50 booking with the likes of The Vaudevillains and Ascension and Slater and Rhyno. Those teams are not in the same stratosphere as them talent-wise, yet they were presented as on the same level. Then they get their big win and once again because Smackdown's tag division is so weak they had an underwhelming title run and have been spinning there wheels since.

I guess in a nut-shell what I'm saying is that American Alpha losing this match should've felt like the upset of the century. There shouldve been shots of fans with there jaws dropped questioning if what they just saw really just happened. Like their reactions to the Jinder win. To use NCAA Tournament vernacular, this should've felt like a 16 beating a 1 or 15 beating a 2 or at the very least a 14 beating a 3. Instead it felt like a 10 beating a 7. You think the 7 is going to win but if they don't you're not really that surprised.

Jinder's clearly a heel. The problem is Vince is assuming that people share his political beliefs and if you don't, he doesn't really seem like a heel
Ruzious
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 32,374
And1: 2,034
Joined: Jul 17, 2001
       

Re: WWE SmackDown Discussion I 

Post#1384 » by Ruzious » Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:49 pm

safi wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
safi wrote:I'm higher on the Colon's than most people but god are they blowing it with American Alpha. There were those rumors a couple months ago about an Evolution-style stable with Owens and Joe and a lot of people said The Revival as a tag team and I thought American Alpha was a way better fit for a stable like that than The Revival. Jordan and Gable as these blue-chip athletes wearing suits with HHH talking about how great they are would be a real shot in the arm to them. Plus, unlike The Revival, I think these guys have singles runs in them. Not only that, I think if done correctly, I think Jordan could be the biggest star in the company in three years. I think his upside is that high.

I was very impressed that they had the Colon's win. Smackdown has upped the importance of 2 previously stale but outstanding teams - first with Usos and now with the Colons. They needed a big win like that, and it was accomplished without a PPV loss for AA. AA's got a long career ahead of them, and they shouldn't just start off at the top. Jordan looks like the real deal - almost like a young Angle - and Gable's a helluva tag team wrestler, but he's tiny, so what they should do is slowly show how good Gable can be - so when they do dominate the tag-team scene, they're believable rock stars. When they went up against Orton and Wyatt, they looked over-matched, frankly - they didn't look like they were ready. Building them up slowly over time is the way to go, imo. And... the Colons win added some unpredictability - which is a big asset for Smackdown. Mahal winning also adds unpredictablity, but maybe the wrong type - because I'm not sure the fans are going to ever be interested in him - especially when it's unclear if he's supposed to be a bad guy or a fan favorite. He's kinda hanging out in the twilight zone.


I have zero problem with the Colon's winning that match. Those guys are super-talented and have been saddled with a host of bad gimmicks. My problem is with the way American Alpha has been presented for the last 9 months. The Smackdown tag division was really bad and these guys were in 50-50 booking with the likes of The Vaudevillains and Ascension and Slater and Rhyno. Those teams are not in the same stratosphere as them talent-wise, yet they were presented as on the same level. Then they get their big win and once again because Smackdown's tag division is so weak they had an underwhelming title run and have been spinning there wheels since.

I guess in a nut-shell what I'm saying is that American Alpha losing this match should've felt like the upset of the century. There shouldve been shots of fans with there jaws dropped questioning if what they just saw really just happened. Like their reactions to the Jinder win. To use NCAA Tournament vernacular, this should've felt like a 16 beating a 1 or 15 beating a 2 or at the very least a 14 beating a 3. Instead it felt like a 10 beating a 7. You think the 7 is going to win but if they don't you're not really that surprised.

Jinder's clearly a heel. The problem is Vince is assuming that people share his political beliefs and if you don't, he doesn't really seem like a heel

With Jinder, I can't really think of him as a legit heal, because he's been - like Slater - a ridiculous underdog for most of his career. Instead of accidentally injuring people with his sloppiness in the ring, his character would have to "injure" another character to make me take him seriously.
"Every dollar devoted to 9th seed is like money in the bank. You gotta spend money to lose money. Trade next year's 1st while you're at it, for that extra UNNGH! the team will need." - montestewart on Wizards management
improper
Analyst
Posts: 3,071
And1: 2,784
Joined: May 23, 2014
     

Re: WWE SmackDown Discussion I 

Post#1385 » by improper » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:03 pm

Yeah, it's a problem when you crown someone as a number one contender with absolutely no build. Jinder Mahal hasn't won a single meaningful match (prior to Tuesday) since his WWE return. The only guys he's beaten are guys that are even lower on the totem pole than he was, including Curtis Axel and Sin Cara, guys who can't even get on TV. His most notable win is probably over Cass, and that was in a handicap match with Rusev as his partner.

So yes, he was totally unbelievable as a main event guy because he's been jobbing for six months. If they intended to push him, it was moronic to not at least give him a little build first. Have him win a couple of matches that actually matter and then have him win a title shot. This is the problem with the WWE. They've treated Jinder like an absolute nobody for months now and then they expect us to buy him as a title contender? It's idiotic booking, even if they only intend for Jinder to be a placeholder feud for Orton. I have literally no interest in that match, and I doubt anyone else does either.

And I don't hate Jinder or anything. Honestly, I need to see more work from him to get an actual impression. He's been jobbing for so long that I have no idea if he's any good in the ring, and that's a problem given that he's about to get a shot at the WWE Championship.
safi
RealGM
Posts: 13,388
And1: 1,204
Joined: Apr 29, 2003

Re: WWE SmackDown Discussion I 

Post#1386 » by safi » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:45 pm

Ruzious wrote:
safi wrote:
Ruzious wrote:I was very impressed that they had the Colon's win. Smackdown has upped the importance of 2 previously stale but outstanding teams - first with Usos and now with the Colons. They needed a big win like that, and it was accomplished without a PPV loss for AA. AA's got a long career ahead of them, and they shouldn't just start off at the top. Jordan looks like the real deal - almost like a young Angle - and Gable's a helluva tag team wrestler, but he's tiny, so what they should do is slowly show how good Gable can be - so when they do dominate the tag-team scene, they're believable rock stars. When they went up against Orton and Wyatt, they looked over-matched, frankly - they didn't look like they were ready. Building them up slowly over time is the way to go, imo. And... the Colons win added some unpredictability - which is a big asset for Smackdown. Mahal winning also adds unpredictablity, but maybe the wrong type - because I'm not sure the fans are going to ever be interested in him - especially when it's unclear if he's supposed to be a bad guy or a fan favorite. He's kinda hanging out in the twilight zone.


I have zero problem with the Colon's winning that match. Those guys are super-talented and have been saddled with a host of bad gimmicks. My problem is with the way American Alpha has been presented for the last 9 months. The Smackdown tag division was really bad and these guys were in 50-50 booking with the likes of The Vaudevillains and Ascension and Slater and Rhyno. Those teams are not in the same stratosphere as them talent-wise, yet they were presented as on the same level. Then they get their big win and once again because Smackdown's tag division is so weak they had an underwhelming title run and have been spinning there wheels since.

I guess in a nut-shell what I'm saying is that American Alpha losing this match should've felt like the upset of the century. There shouldve been shots of fans with there jaws dropped questioning if what they just saw really just happened. Like their reactions to the Jinder win. To use NCAA Tournament vernacular, this should've felt like a 16 beating a 1 or 15 beating a 2 or at the very least a 14 beating a 3. Instead it felt like a 10 beating a 7. You think the 7 is going to win but if they don't you're not really that surprised.

Jinder's clearly a heel. The problem is Vince is assuming that people share his political beliefs and if you don't, he doesn't really seem like a heel

With Jinder, I can't really think of him as a legit heal, because he's been - like Slater - a ridiculous underdog for most of his career. Instead of accidentally injuring people with his sloppiness in the ring, his character would have to "injure" another character to make me take him seriously.


He's a heel because he wrestles a heel style, he insults the crowd and he's booked against babyfaces. The fact that until 2 days ago he was a jobber doesn't change that
loserX
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 33,608
And1: 6,919
Joined: Jun 29, 2006
       

Re: WWE SmackDown Discussion I 

Post#1387 » by loserX » Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:05 pm

safi wrote:
Ruzious wrote:With Jinder, I can't really think of him as a legit heal, because he's been - like Slater - a ridiculous underdog for most of his career. Instead of accidentally injuring people with his sloppiness in the ring, his character would have to "injure" another character to make me take him seriously.


He's a heel because he wrestles a heel style, he insults the crowd and he's booked against babyfaces. The fact that until 2 days ago he was a jobber doesn't change that


He also literally had two guys come out of nowhere and help him cheat.
jakecronus8
RealGM
Posts: 10,998
And1: 3,224
Joined: Feb 06, 2006
     

Re: WWE SmackDown Discussion I 

Post#1388 » by jakecronus8 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:16 am

For some reason I keep seeing the same scenario over and over in my head.

Vince has no idea Jinder is back with the company or that he ever worked there before. One day he happens to be walking past him in the halls with his shirt off and his roid veins popping. Vince then tells the writing staff to give that brown guy a world title push as he retreats to his office to masturbate.
Hardcore Bucks fan podcast. @BuckLifePodcast on Twitter. Available on iTunes, Stitcher, and YouTube.
safi
RealGM
Posts: 13,388
And1: 1,204
Joined: Apr 29, 2003

Re: WWE SmackDown Discussion I 

Post#1389 » by safi » Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:52 am

jakecronus8 wrote:For some reason I keep seeing the same scenario over and over in my head.

Vince has no idea Jinder is back with the company or that he ever worked there before. One day he happens to be walking past him in the halls with his shirt off and his roid veins popping. Vince then tells the writing staff to give that brown guy a world title push as he retreats to his office to masturbate.


What a terrible thing to read right before you go to sleep
safi
RealGM
Posts: 13,388
And1: 1,204
Joined: Apr 29, 2003

Re: WWE SmackDown Discussion I 

Post#1390 » by safi » Sat Apr 22, 2017 2:17 am

I think there wasn't one singular reason why Jinder got this spot and it was a confluence of a lot of things, but two things primarily.

There were rumors for weeks that AJ Styles was Raw-bound which obviously didn't happen but I think it was intended to be done and instead Bray Wyatt wound up going. I think the original post-WM plans were Orton-Wyatt at Backlash.

I think they were going to go with a heel who Orton could beat and they weren't going with Owens because he's got the US Title, they weren't going to put Corbin in a program for him to lose, Dolph's doing the thing with Nakamura and so it was so between him and Erick Rowan really. If Rusev wasn't injured I think he'd be the one in this match. There's rumors that a certain prodigious talent is Smackdown-bound and if they'd debuted him on Tuesday and had him win it would've gotten a lot more buzz, or at least a lot more positive buzz, than Jinder winning did. But if you're going to debut a guy like that, he pretty much has to win the title or you've squandered all the momentum he started with.

And the fact that they're expanding what they do in India and the body thing certainly didn't hurt, but I don't think those were the primary factors
User avatar
WRau1
Head Coach
Posts: 6,975
And1: 907
Joined: Apr 30, 2005
Location: Milwaukee
     

Re: WWE SmackDown Discussion I 

Post#1391 » by WRau1 » Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:28 am

If you go through the Smackdown roster and pick literally any single person that isn't in a feud right now, I think they'd be a better choice than Mahal. IMO, his selection was 100% based on the India expansion.
User avatar
iMoreland
Analyst
Posts: 3,663
And1: 2,095
Joined: Jan 23, 2014
   

Re: WWE SmackDown Discussion I 

Post#1392 » by iMoreland » Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:15 pm

WRau1 wrote:If you go through the Smackdown roster and pick literally any single person that isn't in a feud right now, I think they'd be a better choice than Mahal. IMO, his selection was 100% based on the India expansion.

India market is huge though
User avatar
Pharaoh
RealGM
Posts: 11,649
And1: 2,710
Joined: Aug 10, 2001

Re: RE: Re: WWE SmackDown Discussion I 

Post#1393 » by Pharaoh » Mon Apr 24, 2017 1:20 pm

WRau1 wrote:If you go through the Smackdown roster and pick literally any single person that isn't in a feud right now, I think they'd be a better choice than Mahal. IMO, his selection was 100% based on the India expansion.

Exactly this!

Sent from my SM-J110F using RealGM mobile app
User avatar
iMoreland
Analyst
Posts: 3,663
And1: 2,095
Joined: Jan 23, 2014
   

Re: WWE SmackDown Discussion I 

Post#1394 » by iMoreland » Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:40 pm

you guys can't tell me that title doesn't look good on him

Image
User avatar
Dunthreevy
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,946
And1: 1,350
Joined: Mar 03, 2008
Location: Indianapolis, IN
     

Re: WWE SmackDown Discussion I 

Post#1395 » by Dunthreevy » Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:50 pm

People always want the unpredictable and then when they get it they complain that it wasn't the unpredictable thing that they wanted.

I hope Jinder takes the title off Orton and then is a nice transitional heel champion for a ppv cycle before losing it to AJ. Hell, maybe even let him beat AJ once (due to some heel tactics) before AJ takes the title.
Feel the rhythm! Feel the rhyme! Get on up, it's bobsled time!
safi
RealGM
Posts: 13,388
And1: 1,204
Joined: Apr 29, 2003

Re: WWE SmackDown Discussion I 

Post#1396 » by safi » Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:19 pm

WRau1 wrote:If you go through the Smackdown roster and pick literally any single person that isn't in a feud right now, I think they'd be a better choice than Mahal. IMO, his selection was 100% based on the India expansion.


If they actually put the title on him or even if they don't and this is the beginning of him being in the upper mid-card then you may have a point. But everything about this says that its short-term and this decision was made last-second
safi
RealGM
Posts: 13,388
And1: 1,204
Joined: Apr 29, 2003

Re: WWE SmackDown Discussion I 

Post#1397 » by safi » Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:46 pm

Dunthreevy wrote:People always want the unpredictable and then when they get it they complain that it wasn't the unpredictable thing that they wanted.

I hope Jinder takes the title off Orton and then is a nice transitional heel champion for a ppv cycle before losing it to AJ. Hell, maybe even let him beat AJ once (due to some heel tactics) before AJ takes the title.


On a scale of unpredictable moments with Hogan joining the NWO on one end to David Arquette winning the WCW Title on the other, I'd say this is in the middle but probably a little closer to the latter. There was a way to do this and still make it unpredictable but still make it make some sense. He should've been beating undercard guys for a few weeks and then maybe he beats Jericho via interference or something like that. That way it would've been that we didn't see this coming but he's quietly been on a roll as of late. But he has won one singles match since he came back and that was the Heath Slater win when they were doing the Mr. Irrelevant thing with Heath. He literally lost to Finn Balor in 2 minutes 8 days before he became the #1 contender.
User avatar
WRau1
Head Coach
Posts: 6,975
And1: 907
Joined: Apr 30, 2005
Location: Milwaukee
     

Re: WWE SmackDown Discussion I 

Post#1398 » by WRau1 » Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:54 pm

safi wrote:
Dunthreevy wrote:People always want the unpredictable and then when they get it they complain that it wasn't the unpredictable thing that they wanted.

I hope Jinder takes the title off Orton and then is a nice transitional heel champion for a ppv cycle before losing it to AJ. Hell, maybe even let him beat AJ once (due to some heel tactics) before AJ takes the title.


On a scale of unpredictable moments with Hogan joining the NWO on one end to David Arquette winning the WCW Title on the other, I'd say this is in the middle but probably a little closer to the latter. There was a way to do this and still make it unpredictable but still make it make some sense. He should've been beating undercard guys for a few weeks and then maybe he beats Jericho via interference or something like that. That way it would've been that we didn't see this coming but he's quietly been on a roll as of late. But he has won one singles match since he came back and that was the Heath Slater win when they were doing the Mr. Irrelevant thing with Heath. He literally lost to Finn Balor in 2 minutes 8 days before he became the #1 contender.


I think that's one of the more frustrating things about Jinder being the top contender, his matches have been so short that I'm not even aware of his moveset. At one time I remember him using the Camel Clutch or Full-Nelson Slam as a finisher but those are Rusev and Rowans now. I've seen him use that forearm shot ala Nikki Belle so I guess that's one signature.

ETA - Just watched some of his stuff since he's been back, he's got a good like Jumping Knee and Reverse STO.
improper
Analyst
Posts: 3,071
And1: 2,784
Joined: May 23, 2014
     

Re: WWE SmackDown Discussion I 

Post#1399 » by improper » Mon Apr 24, 2017 5:22 pm

Dunthreevy wrote:People always want the unpredictable and then when they get it they complain that it wasn't the unpredictable thing that they wanted.

I hope Jinder takes the title off Orton and then is a nice transitional heel champion for a ppv cycle before losing it to AJ. Hell, maybe even let him beat AJ once (due to some heel tactics) before AJ takes the title.


Unpredictable is good if it makes sense, but having a guy unpredictably win the number one contender slot after being nothing more than a jobber for the past six months is just unpredictably dumb.
User avatar
iMoreland
Analyst
Posts: 3,663
And1: 2,095
Joined: Jan 23, 2014
   

Re: WWE SmackDown Discussion I 

Post#1400 » by iMoreland » Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:29 am

I wish Kevin Owens would stop wearing suits

Return to Pro Wrestling