WWE Survivor Series Discussion

[LLJ]

[
I think some continue to underrate Ronda. She's done a phenominal job for a newbie, and she remains a huge draw, imo.

It has absolutely nothing to do with underrating Ronda or even how she's doing. It's about crowd perception of her character, and the booking isn't helping her on that front.

They want her to be the top babyface woman in the company and they are failing miserably at booking her as one. But that's no surprise.

[Stanford]

She was getting some of the best babyface reactions in the company before this and there's no reason why she couldn't get them again at TLC. Live crowds are weird and different everywhere. She's had one big event where the crowd weren't totally on her side, and it came during/after a truly special performance from Charlotte.

Roman Reigns, she ain't.

[Ruzious]

[
I think some continue to underrate Ronda. She's done a phenominal job for a newbie, and she remains a huge draw, imo.

It has absolutely nothing to do with underrating Ronda or even how she's doing. It's about crowd perception of her character, and the booking isn't helping her on that front.

They want her to be the top babyface woman in the company and they are failing miserably at booking her as one. But that's no surprise.

Ok, I'll put it this way - Regardless of these so-called miserable failures in how to use her, she's been wildly successful in the WWE and remains a huge draw.

[LLJ]

Ok, I'll put it this way - Regardless of these so-called miserable failures in how to use her, she's been wildly successful in the WWE and remains a huge draw.

She's done well for who she is.

As for "huge draw"...well, that's debatable and there is no access to data to prove this argument. Her name did help them get the new TV deals. But I've not seen any evidence she's moved the needle for the company that much yet.

[Ruzious]

Ok, I'll put it this way - Regardless of these so-called miserable failures in how to use her, she's been wildly successful in the WWE and remains a huge draw.

She's done well for who she is.

As for "huge draw"...well, that's debatable and there is no access to data to prove this argument. Her name did help them get the new TV deals. But I've not seen any evidence she's moved the needle for the company that much yet.

I can't swear it, but I think it's obvious from the crowd reactions - week after week after week.

[LLJ]

I can't swear it, but I think it's obvious from the crowd reactions - week after week after week.

Are her reactions unusually strong for a popular wrestler? You're talking about being the best draw in the company here.

A lot of wrestlers get strong reactions, it doesn't mean they are some big draw. Becky for instance gets the biggest reactions but how much drawing ability does she have outside of the WWE bubble? Does she get big ratings or move merchandise?

I just don't think crowd reactions are a strong indicator of anything business wise.

[Ruzious]

I can't swear it, but I think it's obvious from the crowd reactions - week after week after week.

Are her reactions unusually strong for a popular wrestler? You're talking about being the best draw in the company here.

A lot of wrestlers get strong reactions, it doesn't mean they are some big draw. Becky for instance gets the biggest reactions but how much drawing ability does she have outside of the WWE bubble? Does she get big ratings or move merchandise?

Lol, we're just have to agree to completely disagree here. I don't think it could be more obvious.

[LLJ]

I can't swear it, but I think it's obvious from the crowd reactions - week after week after week.

Are her reactions unusually strong for a popular wrestler? You're talking about being the best draw in the company here.

A lot of wrestlers get strong reactions, it doesn't mean they are some big draw. Becky for instance gets the biggest reactions but how much drawing ability does she have outside of the WWE bubble? Does she get big ratings or move merchandise?

Lol, we're just have to agree to completely disagree here. I don't think it could be more obvious.

I'm just saying you're making an argument based on an assumption. Yes, Ronda is "over", which indicates she is popular enough, but lots of wrestlers are "over". You need to give me more than that to conclude she's a "huge" draw.

At any rate, I wasn't even criticizing any of that in my original post. All I'm saying is they've screwed up her booking as a top babyface. This is not how you get people to like her. What actual reason have they given people to cheer her? Not much.

[Ruzious]

Are her reactions unusually strong for a popular wrestler? You're talking about being the best draw in the company here.

A lot of wrestlers get strong reactions, it doesn't mean they are some big draw. Becky for instance gets the biggest reactions but how much drawing ability does she have outside of the WWE bubble? Does she get big ratings or move merchandise?

Lol, we're just have to agree to completely disagree here. I don't think it could be more obvious.

I'm just saying you're making an argument based on an assumption. Yes, Ronda is "over", which indicates she is popular enough, but lots of wrestlers are "over". You need to give me more than that to conclude she's a "huge" draw.

At any rate, I wasn't even criticizing any of that in my original post. All I'm saying is they've screwed up her booking as a top babyface. This is not how you get people to like her. What actual reason have they given people to cheer her? Not much.

This isn't anywhere near important enough to me that I feel like I have to do research to prove my opinion is correct.

[jakecronus8]

I've maintained that the term "draw" is pretty much dead in terms of wrestling ever since WCW went out of business. With no competition, the company itself is the draw, not singular workers. To me this is even more apparent now that there are no ppv numbers to go off of so no quantifiable monetary numbers.

In short, no one is subscribing to wwe network now because of one person. Drawing was a term popular back in the territorial days when guys would jump from territory to territory and draw big crowds to the shows. The term still had some meaning in the Monday night Wars era because of stars jumping ships and the ratings/ppv Wars. Now it's just misused for people to argue popularity and realistically to push their agendas of who they like or don't like. My two cents at least.

[improper]

She was getting some of the best babyface reactions in the company before this and there's no reason why she couldn't get them again at TLC. Live crowds are weird and different everywhere. She's had one big event where the crowd weren't totally on her side, and it came during/after a truly special performance from Charlotte.

Roman Reigns, she ain't.

I mean, of course she'll get cheered at TLC. She's facing Nia, who no one really gave a damn about before and who everyone hates now.

The problem is, what's going to happen when Rousey has to start defending that belt against fan favorites? I just don't think she's going to be the one who comes out of it getting cheered, which is why they should turn her heel now and save themselves the trouble. She's much better suited as a heel anyway from her general attitude. It doesn't make sense to call yourself the "baddest b*tch on the planet" only for all of your matches to be the other girl whipping your ass for 90% of the match.

[Stanford]

The problem is, what's going to happen when Rousey has to start defending that belt against fan favorites?

What happens when anyone defends their belt against a fan favorite? That's wrestling in the modern era, man. If fans think the company wants you to cheer somebody, they're likely to cheer for the other guy. It's amazing that Ronda got the reaction she did.

[improper]

What happens when anyone defends their belt against a fan favorite? That's wrestling in the modern era, man. If fans think the company wants you to cheer somebody, they're likely to cheer for the other guy. It's amazing that Ronda got the reaction she did.

Perhaps the moral of the story is that WWE shouldn't try to force fan favorites to constantly be the heels against wrestlers that are far less popular?

And I would argue that this is really only an issue on main roster WWE, for the most part. NXT successfully got fans to boo Johnny freaking Gargano, the most over megaface NXT has ever had. And they did it with smart booking over a period of months. There was no one point where Johnny became a heel, but rather a gradual series of actions he took that slowly turned the crowd against him. And NXT in general doesn't really have a problem with the crowd going rogue, with the lone exception being the Undisputed Era (mostly just Adam Cole, really), and they're more tweeners in my mind than pure heels. They're not evil, just opportunistic and willing to play the numbers game.

[Stanford]

I don't buy the claim that Lesnar doesn't like wrestling. I just watched the main event again. Brock does so many little things to improve the match before the comeback and then sells his **** ass off for ten minutes. If he just wants to collect a paycheck, he doesn't have to do anything beyond suplexing dudes and sell in an ordinary way when he needs to. His selling tonight was inspired. I don't think that kind of work can come from someone who doesn't enjoy it.

By the way, the match is better the second time. I was too busy being worked to see exactly how they were working everyone. It was a truly great performance by both guys. It will be one of my matches of the year, no doubt.

[tugs]

I just think Brock is bored in terms of how he's been built as a dominant force, having limited movesets. The guy's a legit mixed martial artist with knowledge on different disciplines. Having him fight a technical wrestler brings out the artist in him.

[iMoreland]

I've been saying it for forever now, Brock is one of, if not the best wrestler on the planet

[improper]

I've been saying it for forever now, Brock is one of, if not the best wrestler on the planet

He's capable of it, but he rarely shows it. That's the issue. Considering he only wrestles like eight times a year, only putting on one good match is just unacceptable.

[Spens1]

I've been saying it for forever now, Brock is one of, if not the best wrestler on the planet

When he wants, which is hardly ever. Also when he holds the title hostage and doesn't rock up its a pain.

[Stanford]

I've been saying it for forever now, Brock is one of, if not the best wrestler on the planet

He's really good! They dont take advantage of it enough.

[bestnamezRtaken]

I think it depends on who he's wrestling. I'm sure he was bored of wrestling Roman all the time. Same with Braun. He's had fantastic matches with AJ and Bryan. Both have said it was very easy working with Brock too. But if he also doesn't respect you, you get crap stiff Brock.