WWE General Discussion II

[Texas Chuck]

all those old chair head shots are just utter cringe.

[Scott Hall]

Daniel Puder at the 2005 Royal Rumble where Benoit, Eddie, Holly etc all chopped the $hit out of him? I never heard the story about Taker drilling Kanyon in the head with a chair because he was gay or it was so long ago I might've
forgot. But I've never been a big Undertaker guy and it says a lot that he was supposedly the "locker room leader"
all those years where most of the bad hazing and bad incidents happened and the biggest culprit and most unlikable
guy JBL during that span was at his wedding and maybe even the best man and they are good friends.

Watch on YouTube

Honestly one of the most brutal chair shots I have ever seen.

I may have been misremembering the one he did to Maven. I tried looking it up but it looks like what he actually did was hold the chair to Maven's throat and slam it into the ground. For whatever reason I was remembering it as a chair to the head.

Oh the 2002 Royal Rumble when Maven literally came off the show Tough Enough and eliminated him and they brawled
all around the arena. It looked a little stiff especially the stunt with the popcorn machine but I thought it was all by
design for the story and with Maven never having to work the indies and literally walk into a WWE job with a push
without paying any dues. I remember at the time everyone marking out for that story they did and I don't ever remember
Maven complaining about it.

As for Kanyon he blamed the WWE firing him for being Gay which I always thought was sour grapes because Vinces
best friend and the co-commander in charge Pat Patterson was gay. Kanyon was in the WWF in the 90's as a jobber
and like many guys who came back in the early 2000's Kanyon, Raven, Justin Credible etc if Vince wasn't high on you
the first time he usually won't be the 2nd time plus the WWE roster was the most stacked in history in the early 2000's.
We'll see if we learn anything new in the Kanyon episode tomorrow I guess.

[improper]

Oh the 2002 Royal Rumble when Maven literally came off the show Tough Enough and eliminated him and they brawled all around the arena. It looked a little stiff especially the stunt with the popcorn machine but I thought it was all by
design for the story and with Maven never having to work the indies and literally walk into a WWE job with a push
without paying any dues. I remember at the time everyone marking out for that story they did and I don't ever remember
Maven complaining about it.

As for Kanyon he blamed the WWE firing him for being Gay which I always thought was sour grapes because Vinces
best friend and the co-commander in charge Pat Patterson was gay. Kanyon was in the WWF in the 90's as a jobber
and like many guys who came back in the early 2000's Kanyon, Raven, Justin Credible etc if Vince wasn't high on you
the first time he usually won't be the 2nd time plus the WWE roster was the most stacked in history in the early 2000's.
We'll see if we learn anything new in the Kanyon episode tomorrow I guess.

No doubt the Maven shot doesn't really look any worse than most other chair shots to the head from the time.

The Kanyon one was particularly vicious, though. One of the worst I've seen. And considering that they had him dressed as Boy George for that segment, I think there's certainly some credence to his allegations.

[Pharaoh]

The Daniel Puder thing is more than hazing though and him getting chopped by those guys is more a co sequence of Puder's actions against Kurt Angle than anything else.

IF memory serves: Angle and some tough enough guys are in a segment on a show (Smackdown?) Angle gets a win over 1 of them and is grabs a mic to challenge any the others.

Puder accepts and then takes Angle on, gets the upper hand and in the process almost breaks Angle's arm. Angle manages to avoid that and gets Puder into a position so they can award the "match" to Angle.

I think Puder not only wasn't supposed to accept but also obviously shouldn't have been so "real" with the star performer.

So Puder got punished for it in the ring, on PPV by several vets.

As for Taker being a POS - it's true! Dude was the locker room leader, held locker room courts, essentially acted like the big d'ck on campus and the vast majority of the crew accepted it as standard operating procedure because the business is weird like that.

Vets have always taken liberty with the new young guys and I'm actually surprised there's not more sexual stuff out now that those incidents and stories wouldn't be viewed as "gay" or whatever and the victim would be far more supported.

On Kanyon - not sure on his stories as I wasn't watching or following much during his "big" years as a star

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[Dominator83]

Okay, never mind. I was not misremembering. I just couldn't find a clip that didn't cut it off.

Watch on YouTube

Skip to around the 3:28 mark to see the chairshot to Maven.

Nobody took a chairshot like Tanaka

[xAIRNESSx]

So apparently there’s a new “woke” wrestler on NXT.

I find it interesting that right wing media is labeling this as WWE mocking the left but I actually thought of it as WWE poking fun at the right.

Read on Twitter

[djsunyc]

So apparently there’s a new “woke” wrestler on NXT.

I find it interesting that right wing media is labeling this as WWE mocking the left but I actually thought of it as WWE poking fun at the right.

Read on Twitter

considering how tight the mcmahon family is with the orange man, it's not a shot at the right.

[Texas Chuck]

So apparently there’s a new “woke” wrestler on NXT.

I find it interesting that right wing media is labeling this as WWE mocking the left but I actually thought of it as WWE poking fun at the right.

Read on Twitter

considering how tight the mcmahon family is with the orange man, it's not a shot at the right.

I think the WWE is equal opportunity on this. They've definitely mocked the white nationalist type character before.

[xAIRNESSx]

So apparently there’s a new “woke” wrestler on NXT.

I find it interesting that right wing media is labeling this as WWE mocking the left but I actually thought of it as WWE poking fun at the right.

Read on Twitter

considering how tight the mcmahon family is with the orange man, it's not a shot at the right.

I think the WWE is equal opportunity on this. They've definitely mocked the white nationalist type character before.

And this woke wrestler is obviously a hyperbolic portrayal which is what a lot of far right individuals think all liberals act like, so I take it as a joke on them that this actually gets a reaction from them. I mean it could be a joke on extreme liberals but it kind of also reminds me of PC Principal from South Park which I found hilarious.

[tugs]

Read somewhere that they've already erased remnants of that gimmick? Hope they didn't future endeavor the kid though

[Scott Hall]

Oh the 2002 Royal Rumble when Maven literally came off the show Tough Enough and eliminated him and they brawled all around the arena. It looked a little stiff especially the stunt with the popcorn machine but I thought it was all by
design for the story and with Maven never having to work the indies and literally walk into a WWE job with a push
without paying any dues. I remember at the time everyone marking out for that story they did and I don't ever remember
Maven complaining about it.

As for Kanyon he blamed the WWE firing him for being Gay which I always thought was sour grapes because Vinces
best friend and the co-commander in charge Pat Patterson was gay. Kanyon was in the WWF in the 90's as a jobber
and like many guys who came back in the early 2000's Kanyon, Raven, Justin Credible etc if Vince wasn't high on you
the first time he usually won't be the 2nd time plus the WWE roster was the most stacked in history in the early 2000's.
We'll see if we learn anything new in the Kanyon episode tomorrow I guess.

No doubt the Maven shot doesn't really look any worse than most other chair shots to the head from the time.

The Kanyon one was particularly vicious, though. One of the worst I've seen. And considering that they had him dressed as Boy George for that segment, I think there's certainly some credence to his allegations.

Yeah at that time we were just barely removed from ECW and the attitude Era so nobody really raised an eyebrow
at the Maven and Kanyon chair shots. But after watching the Dark Side of the Ring episode and refreshing my memory
on Wikipedia about Kanyons WWE stint that Boy George segment definitely seems suspicious now in hindsight.

I'm not sure if him dressing up as Boy George and coming out of that box was supposed to be indicative of him
coming out of the closet or not. It could've been a gag by Vince you know the same guy who thinks it's funny to
mock wrestlers when they just die (because they would still want to be apart of the show logic). Since he was
best friends with Pat Patterson I'm more inclined to think it was because of his injuries he got injured then got
injured again in rehab and had some setbacks and Vince probably thought he was being soft, or taking him for a
ride or something. Vince hates paying for undercard wrestlers being out to long for injury especially if he thinks
they aren't trying hard enough to come back. Also another instance of Vince souring on guys he pushes way to fast
if I had a dollar for every time he pulled the plug way to fast on a talented up and coming wrestler over the
years I'd be rich sigh.

But seeing that episode and seeing all the mental issues Kanyon had in real life working in an environment like the
WWE and the Wrestling Industry in general and for a crazy carny in Vince was a recipe for disaster. Also have no
idea what Flair and Cena were smoking claiming Kanyon wasn't a good in ring wrestler especially from Flair who's
offense consisted of some chops, woooos, deadly drive in the corner, lots of stalling, knee drop, back suplex,
shin breaker and figure four repeat.

I'm also glad to see the Undertaker be taking a lot of criticism online the last month or so. No doubt as Vinces
biggest puppet/stooge he was the executioner for his marching orders. Jonathan Coachman mentioned last
week that he once turned down a Tribute to the Troops show in Afghanistan because he didn't want to go in a
warzone after just getting married or having a kid. He said they reassured him it was no problem if he declined
over and over again and he thought it would be no big deal if he declined as he went to the one the year before.
So the next week on RAW one of the refs came up to him and gave him short notice to go in the ring and to his
surprise they had the Undertaker beat the crap out of him for no reason.

[improper]

Yeah at that time we were just barely removed from ECW and the attitude Era so nobody really raised an eyebrow at the Maven and Kanyon chair shots. But after watching the Dark Side of the Ring episode and refreshing my memory
on Wikipedia about Kanyons WWE stint that Boy George segment definitely seems suspicious now in hindsight.

The Maven shot doesn't look all that bad, especially when it's one of a string of awful chair shots in a montage video, but I'd say the Kanyon one was pretty cringeworthy even for that time period. That was a brutal hit.

That montage video I posted above actually does sneak in one shot that I would deem acceptable, and it was delivered to Shawn Michaels. He gets his arms up just in time to eat the blow, but it still looks really good. It's also interesting to see Rock deliver some truly awful chair shots knowing he'd never let anyone hit him like that.

[Celtsfan1980]

Wrestlers leaving WWE are sending a message, while the competition bringing in less than 700,000 viewers for their second most popular show is a case of the fans sending a message. If the situation was reversed and the competition had 82 million Youtube subscribers, the much higher US ratings, apparently a much bigger international fan base, and much higher ticket revenue while losing a small amount of wrestlers, what would the anti-WWE crowd focus on? If they lose Owens and Sami later we'll be hearing a lot more negativity, but it could be much worse.

NXT's ratings being what they are while Smackdown's ratings appear to be holding up very well this year makes the case for Triple H much more difficult. If Vince sells the company after they get new TV deals, whomever writes for Roman should be in charge if they want the job. I'm okay with Triple H or Shawn getting a decent role, but the main events minimum should be someone else's decision.

[Pharaoh]

Wrestlers leaving WWE are sending a message, while the competition bringing in less than 700,000 viewers for their second most popular show is a case of the fans sending a message. If the situation was reversed and the competition had 82 million Youtube subscribers, the much higher US ratings, apparently a much bigger international fan base, and much higher ticket revenue while losing a small amount of wrestlers, what would the anti-WWE crowd focus on? If they lose Owens and Sami later we'll be hearing a lot more negativity, but it could be much worse.

NXT's ratings being what they are while Smackdown's ratings appear to be holding up very well this year makes the case for Triple H much more difficult. If Vince sells the company after they get new TV deals, whomever writes for Roman should be in charge if they want the job. I'm okay with Triple H or Shawn getting a decent role, but the main events minimum should be someone else's decision.

Heyman & Roman oversee whatever scripts Roman is given, same way Heyman does for Brock.

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[Ruzious]

So... Karrion Kross was set up to be a big star, and it seems like he's done his part, but is the WWE screwing around with him? They've got him without his big NXT entrance, without his valet, with some goofy entrance clothes, and now he hasn't been drafted yet - while Austin Theory has. What is going on there? Granted, Theory is much younger, so he could have a very bright future, but they have these drafts every year or so, so you draft based on who the guy's gonna do in the next year of 2. Also, considering Edge was drafted so high, it doesn't look like age is a big factor in where you're drafted.

[iMoreland]

he hasn't been drafted yet

They split the roster into 2 draft pools. One half was drafted on SD and the other half will be drafted tonight. Becky/Seth/Finn/Lashley/Kross etc will be drafted tonight.

[Ruzious]

he hasn't been drafted yet

They split the roster into 2 draft pools. One half was drafted on SD and the other half will be drafted tonight. Becky/Seth/Finn/Lashley/Kross etc will be drafted tonight.

Gotcha. I was wondering why Becky and The Man's man weren't picked.

[Celtsfan1980]

If the lawsuit against Lucha Underground is true(very low pay, don't allow them to work for other companies), I could argue WWE isn't even the worse pro wrestling company.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucha_Underground
The many accusations about our companies helping Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union going to today with companies like Amazon being horrible to their workers, Vince doesn't look so bad.

So... Karrion Kross was set up to be a big star, and it seems like he's done his part, but is the WWE screwing around with him? They've got him without his big NXT entrance, without his valet, with some goofy entrance clothes, and now he hasn't been drafted yet - while Austin Theory has. What is going on there? Granted, Theory is much younger, so he could have a very bright future, but they have these drafts every year or so, so you draft based on who the guy's gonna do in the next year of 2. Also, considering Edge was drafted so high, it doesn't look like age is a big factor in where you're drafted.

As one who prefers three and four star matches over his two star matches it's okay. I'm shocked NXT pushed him personally.

[Ruzious]

If the lawsuit against Lucha Underground is true(very low pay, don't allow them to work for other companies), I could argue WWE isn't even the worse pro wrestling company.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucha_Underground
The many accusations about our companies helping Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union going to today with companies like Amazon being horrible to their workers, Vince doesn't look so bad.

So... Karrion Kross was set up to be a big star, and it seems like he's done his part, but is the WWE screwing around with him? They've got him without his big NXT entrance, without his valet, with some goofy entrance clothes, and now he hasn't been drafted yet - while Austin Theory has. What is going on there? Granted, Theory is much younger, so he could have a very bright future, but they have these drafts every year or so, so you draft based on who the guy's gonna do in the next year of 2. Also, considering Edge was drafted so high, it doesn't look like age is a big factor in where you're drafted.

As one who prefers three and four star matches over his two star matches it's okay. I'm shocked NXT pushed him personally.

I can't argue with you about his matches, but... he does have a star look and personality that I think brings people to the seats. Sometimes you can't see how important a guy is until he leaves, and it's clear now that NXT is much worse without him - just as it is without Cole and Balor.

[Dominator83]

If the lawsuit against Lucha Underground is true(very low pay, don't allow them to work for other companies), I could argue WWE isn't even the worse pro wrestling company.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucha_Underground
The many accusations about our companies helping Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union going to today with companies like Amazon being horrible to their workers, Vince doesn't look so bad.

So... Karrion Kross was set up to be a big star, and it seems like he's done his part, but is the WWE screwing around with him? They've got him without his big NXT entrance, without his valet, with some goofy entrance clothes, and now he hasn't been drafted yet - while Austin Theory has. What is going on there? Granted, Theory is much younger, so he could have a very bright future, but they have these drafts every year or so, so you draft based on who the guy's gonna do in the next year of 2. Also, considering Edge was drafted so high, it doesn't look like age is a big factor in where you're drafted.

As one who prefers three and four star matches over his two star matches it's okay. I'm shocked NXT pushed him personally.

Crazy that a small company like LU would restrict guys from working. That's whack. Even AEW, as big as they are, let's their guys Freelance. There's an Indy show here later in the month with Eddie Kingston and Danny Garcia on the card. Last year at a different, even lower level indy, I saw Luchasaurus in action.

Tony Kahn is awesome. Not just for his product, but for how he treats the talent and even gives them freedom to work on the side.