All Elite Wrestling - Discussion

[tugs]

Oh man the previous 2 posts sum it up perfectly. Thank you, kind sirs.

[Pharaoh]

https://youtu.be/7SB16il97yw

The closest thing I can find that explains what CM Punk and this day means for so many people.

AEW fans need to be aware this moment isn't it. This is not the end.

Today is the day they arrived. Everything up to now was practice.

"The first dance"? You got that right!

And now we go to school!

It's up to AEW to take this moment and hold it, use it and burn it into fans around the world.

Here we are! THIS! is what you wanted!

Now pay for it

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[Scott Hall]

Great moment for AEW even though I wish it was an organic surprise I totally get the business aspect of
leaking it and building the anticipation up.

I kind of wish there was a pipe bomb and they held off on the Darby Allen stuff for another time as it
all should've been about him his first night back. 7 years man it's a shame that one of Wrestlings best
ever talents of the last 15-20 years was gone so long especially in an era that desperately needed
a Hulk Hogan/Steve Austin level mega star.

The crying CM Punk guy really stood out and it begs the question who got the louder pop John Cena at TLC
last month or CM Punk in Chicago? Both stand out to me because for kids that grew up in the 80's and early
90's we were absolutely spoiled with all the legendary cartoons, movies, TV Shows, Wrestling and Sports
we grew up with. And things eventually fell off and the kids that came along after they didn't have all the
legends and heroes we grew up with and to them guys like John Cena and CM Punk were their heroes and it's
cool to seem them now as grown men losing their $hit and seeing their heroes return.

A major complaint I have about this show is why on earth with all these eyeballs checking in on the product
is your main event Jon Moxley vs. _______? seriously who was that jobber? If I was watching this show with
a lapsed fan or first time watcher and they asked me who is Jon Moxley wrestling me as a hardcore fan
has no idea who he is and I'm not sure if he is an enhancement talent or not. Also he is with EverRise the
jobbers from NXT WWE's development system? like why on EARTH are these guys involved in the Main Event
of one your biggest shows in history?

It's like when Cody Rhodes wrestled Anthony Agogo (sp?) I have no idea who this guy is and have to google
search him. AEW has to do a better job of building up stars like they have with Darby and got to get rid
of this bad habit of throwing anybody in high profile matches that the audience doesn't know who they
are and haven't been built up as characters. So Cody Rhodes wrestles a British Boxer that won a Bronze
medal a decade ago that nobody has heard of and then the guy disappears again and what was accomplished?

AEW is still in its infancy stages and has a ton of momentum right now and with so few PPVs on during the
calendar year right now they need to put the foot on the gas and go full steam and load up every card
especially main events put the catering guys/Indy guys on the Youtube show and then slowly integrate them
on Dynamite and Rampage in the appropriate spots. Also guys like Malaki Black who's hot and fresh should
be on every show right now and not be off TV like he was this week.

Sorry for the long rant but AEW drives me nuts sometimes and I only want them to do well. Anyways this night
belongs to CM Punk and I can't wait till they show him face to face with Colt Cabana or when he starts feuding
with MJF and they show that picture of them when Max was a kid at the autograph signing and then MJF starts
mocking his UFC career lol.

The reason for Mox v [insert random here] is because the entire show was about Punk and nothing that happened matters beyond that moment and promo.

Can agree, to a point, that they not include Darby in that moment but Do what you want to pump up your home grown kid.

As for leaking it or kinda letting it be known:

1 - business is business. Gotta get ratings and sell out the joint

2 - if he's a surprise return and no one knew then it's as stupid as Goldberg v Hogan at the Georgia Dome!

Now since you went deep:

I'm one of the millions (and millions) of lapsed fans Cody often talks about.

I started in 1986 on WWE(F then but) then found NWA Jim Crockett version. I paid for tapes, requested matches from that person, paid them to bootleg me the best in the world!

I haven't really "watched" any of the product in YEARS, probably a decade if we're talking real dollars here.

But I've kept watch, YouTube stuff like the Summer of Punk and Roman, Cena v Rock, certain things that draw me in (Edge, Christian, Bray, Brock etc)

I'm part of a generation that watched our heroes die!

Owen, Eddy, Benoit, Pillman, Rick Rude and so on. We watched these men put on classics for the ages and we watched them die for us.

That does something to a person. As time went on I slipped further away, further from this weird "entertainment" that I loved with all my being growing up...

And yet I was online waiting for Rampage to start, to hit refresh as some dude reviewed it live, cause I knew what was coming, I just didn't know when.

"With a tear in my eye"...it was **** special! It was a moment that can't be repeated and yeah I've watched it on YouTube enough these past few hours.

Punk doesn't have his cult following because he's just merely CM Punk, the best in the world. Nah, that's too easy to talk away.

He has his following because he represents something, something that people feel somewhere inside of them.

Race, Funk, Dusty...he mentioned them in the post show thing (never watched one before, unlikely to watch another one). The brought him up.

CM Punk represents something that WWE can't buy, Kahn can't buy, he has a connection to a fanbase you can't quantify with metrics and ratings and merch and buys.

CM Punk is a belief! That it belongs to us!

This business, industry, whatever. It's ours, we own it, we love it and you can strip it down, switch it up, change it and abuse it but we still gonna love so many things about it cause **** you that's ours!

CM Punk is that, cause of pipe bombs and great matches, cause he's not 6'6" and orange. He's one of us. A real wrestling fan.

We still exist, we just left...unlike our heroes we're not dead though. We just stopped watching, waiting, hoping that somehow someday somewhere down the road someone will come along.

Tony Kahn

I might not ever actually give you a dime.

But you gave me today.

And that'll do me

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So you and me started watching at almost around the exact same time the only difference is I've remained
a loyal die hard this entire time and I'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing lol but it is what it is
I'm not a car guy, I'm not a movie guy, I don't even have Netflix basically I'm just sports (NBA, MLB, NHL,NFL)
and Wrestling so I have my pulse on what the hardcores like and the lapsed fans.

One thing about Wrestling fans is American Wrestling fans are the most fickle then any other country and
that can be problematic since it's the biggest market of them all.

The Golden Era and The Attitude Era have 2 things in common the first is having the mega stars like Hogan,
Andre, Warrior, Savage, etc and then Austin, Rock, DX, Foley etc the 2nd is Saturday Nights Main Event and
the Monday Night Wars.

When Wrestling was exploding in the 80's sure it had that wrestling bubble of fans that it has today that liked
Ric Flair, The Midnight Express, Sting etc etc but one of the biggest things was the WWF having Saturday Nights
Main Events on NBC where almost everyone had that channel and it was giving the general public a sampling
of what the WWF product (and Wrestling can be). And with all those eyeballs watching and sampling the product
the WWF gave them complete fire the entire show top to bottom no wasted matches or segments. Top notch
production and music you were hooked for the entire show it was like a free PPV and people started loving it.
That is the only time in my entire life where I knew all sections of the general public that liked Wrestling it was
must see TV and since PPV was a new concept it was a great way to entice people to actually
want to pay to see it.

The 2nd time was during the Monday Night Wars especially during 1997-1999... There was the odd time they
would take the foot off the gas but they always knew when they had to load up a show whether it was in the
Garden or in the Georgia Dome. But when you're at war you can't let up and some of those old RAWs and Nitros
are completely stacked each and every week with main events that were capable of main eventing WrestleMania.
Both shows felt like "parties" hell WCW used to have College campus Nitro parties across the country.

Even ECW got it's following because they booked complete bangers for the entire show because they had to
to try and survive.

Look at the things you're telling me as a lapsed fan...

But I've kept watch, YouTube stuff like the Summer of Punk and Roman, Cena v Rock, certain things that draw me in (Edge, Christian, Bray, Brock etc)

Tony Kahn

I might not ever actually give you a dime.

You also talk about how excited you are to see CM Punk back and how you rewatched the segment back on
Youtube and that's great but I'm not hearing what an awesome show it was, that you were really compelled by
the Private Party match or Jon Moxley vs. completely random no name indy jobber?

So what I've noticed is when AEW brings in these big names (granted not as big as Punk) or when WWE does
Legend nights it draws in the lapsed fan and the lapsed fan watches and enjoys and then they sample the
rest of the current product and they aren't sticking around and that's the problem we want you to stick around
but I don't blame you at all since Wrestling hasn't been great in what 10-15 years?

I'm all in favor of AEW bringing in CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, Ric Flair, Bray Wyatt, Braun Strowman etc they need
to continue to build up their roster.

But when you have a new show like Rampage that is on it's 2nd episode with so many eyes watching you have
to recognize golden opportunities and now with the pandemic over and people happy to be out in crowds
you gotta book FIRE top to bottom you can't be complacent especially since how fickle so many American
Wrestling fans are.

Right now in 2021 we have more Entertainment options then ever before and that also works against this era
it's almost impossible to be bored anymore so if an episode of Dynamite starts and CM Punk starts off the show
with a promo cool everyone is watching. Then next segment is you know Jericho vs. Omega or something cool
everyone is watching then you go to Nyla Rose match, or Joey Janela match or Best Friends or these no name
Indy guys that even hardcore fans have no idea who they are you know what happens? you have the small Wrestling
Bubble saying "This is awesome! This is awesome" and everybody else saying hey what's going on in that NBA game
flip the channel or what else is on? Unfortunately for Wrestling the standards are extremely high.

[Amare_1_Knicks]

Highly agree on the point about Mox vs the Everise dude in the main event (gun to my head, I couldn’t tell you his name and I watch AEW every week). I think I said it a few pages back, I don’t get why Sting’s first match on TNT in 20 years was against 2.0/Everrise, and I don’t get why Mox was going up against him in that position either.

[tugs]

Doubt they're worried any high profile, 5 star classic might overshadow the Punk moment, and it's not as if it's a bad thing if you have, say, El Idolo vs Omega or Moxley vs Penta main eventing and bringing the house down. Perfect way to cap off the night

Maybe they really just wanted to fill in one hour and give the spotlight to Phil

[Ruzious]

Ok, AWE has me back by bringing back Punk. The pop was so loud, I could barely hear Cult of Personality.

This by no means means AEW doesn't have major problems. They have way too many tiny wrestlers who I never heard of in supposedly big matches.

[Scott Hall]

Highly agree on the point about Mox vs the Everise dude in the main event (gun to my head, I couldn’t tell you his name and I watch AEW every week). I think I said it a few pages back, I don’t get why Sting’s first match on TNT in 20 years was against 2.0/Everrise, and I don’t get why Mox was going up against him in that position either.

Good point about Stings first match on TNT. From listening to the post show press conference Tony Khan is
fans of these guys. From what I'm gathering or hearing from him is he is an Indy Wrestling fan and he has
no problems signing these guys and putting them in high profile matches or feuds with zero build or character
development. I saw him recently show up to offer some luchador jobber a contract. He'll literally throw a
Nick Gage or Anthony Agogo or whoever that guy that faced Moxley out there to the Wolves and then they
disappear. Right now as a booker and a owner he's going around like a chicken with his head cut off and going
against pretty much all Wrestling logic he's literally the polar opposite of Vince or the non senile Vince in every way lol.

[jakecronus8]

After sleeping on it and watching Punk’s debut over again this morning I have some thoughts.

First, it was the right call to open the show with him. Some things are bigger than a wrestling angle or storyline. This was real life stuff and Punk deserved that platform.

I’m surprised they’re able to get away with the logo and branding they chose which is near a carbon copy to his wwe stuff. Lawyers probably on standby.

I don’t know if the pop was that loud or if the AEW production quality is poor, but I would’ve liked the volume on his music a little higher. Cult of Personality is part of the whole experience. That being said I’m glad Khan ponied up for the rights. ETA: the echo of the arena and sound system kind of made his promo hard to understand. Hope they can get that fixed.

It was interesting when Punk first hit the curtain. I think he probably hyped himself up backstage and got into serious character mode, then was almost immediately touched by the reaction from the crowd and got emotional. It was heartwarming. Over the last 7 years I had wondered if he had just grown that spiteful about wrestling that he hated it. After that he was just straight up having fun, which was also great to see considering that in his last run all of the fun of wrestling was sucked out of him.

The promo was very good. Old school bullet point but all his words. I like that he didn’t really bury wwe. I think he truly wants to just put that in his rear view mirror. For those critical of the decision to make a sizable chunk of it about Darby I disagree. The first thing he brought up was Britt Baker and regularly in the lead up has been putting over AEW talent. My guess is Khan just handed him a mic and gave him carte Blanche to say whatever he wanted and he himself chose to put over Darby. Very cool and unselfish. I also could read the childlike excitment and wonder in Darby’s face. This has got to be a dream for him.

The part with the ice cream bars was a perfect light hearted way to cap it off.

As far as the rest of the show/main event is concerned, I think the decision to do a not so hyped Mox/New Dude match was calculated. With a one hour show they probably didn’t have a concrete time for all the Punk stuff so they wanted to give themselves leadway. Better that than cutting a segment or leaving your main event 5 minutes.

Side note: I saw a tweet that showed the merch lines after the show going all the way down the escalators in and lobby of the UC. Lol at Roman, or anyone in wwe inferring that Punk is not a needle mover. Beyond that he also crashed PWTees dot com last night after his new shirt went live.

I’m going to the dynamite show in Milwaukee. I hope he’s there and I can get my hands on a shirt. He’s my all time favorite wrestler and beyond that a personal hero and inspiration for me. I had friends who are long since lapsed fans texting me last night saying how happy they were for wrestling and that they’re probably gonna start watching again. What a great night for all wrestling fans. Hopefully this is just the start of another boom period.

[daoneandonly]

What a moment, AEW couldn't have done it any better. So much better than anything going on in WWE. I haven't been this excited for wrestling since I was a mere lad in the WCW/NWO days

[Mr.Raptorsingh]

Is Adam Cole also AEW-bound? Man if they get him, WWE in trouble if they aren't already

[Pharaoh]

Calling out Darby was planned as they're heavily invested in him as a performer

I get the point about booking a PPV calibre show to hook anyone that tuned in just to see Punk but:

1 - It's "free" TV and if anyone is watching AEW for Punk they can watch stuff on other things like YouTube to sample the product beyond seeing Punk (& Sting) in the first segment.

2 - you can guarantee that the goal is to get people to pay for All Out, in which case that PPV better be exception. Cause if it is they'll hook a load of people.

That said not every match can be a home run, not every segment can be straight fire. If every single match and every single segment is huge or really important it devalues the ones that ARE huge and really important.

Not everything can be equally important and you need ebb and flow on a show so that a previous segment has time to marinate and sink in.

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[Scott Hall]

What is considered the best Wrestlmania of all-time? WM 17

What is considered the best SummerSlam of all-time? SummerSlam 2002

What do both those shows have in common? there wasn't a bad match or segment on the show and if
there was it was very minimal and I don't remember anyone complaining about it being to much and
needing things to marinate and sink in. I don't buy that and that they devalue other matches or segments
either.

Timing is everything and there is times to go guns a blazing and start loading up. Tony has bought all
these new toys lets see them all perform on the same night instead of sprinkling them in with no name
jobber matches.

What has been happening is AEW keeps on bringing in these former stars (granted not as big as CM Punk)
and there is a temporary ratings spike as casuals check back in then they see the rest of the show and
they start leaving again. Right now Dynamites ratings have dropped for 4 consecutive weeks despite
the return to live crowds, acquiring (and barely using) Aleistar Black, all the buzz of CM Punk, Daniel Bryan,
Ric Flair etc coming in.

So it's telling that people that are sampling are not sticking around but they are interested to keep
checking back to see if they can turn it around and it's clear as day what the problems are.

You can book a fire opening segment with CM Punk or Chris Jericho but if you follow it up with a
20-30 minute competitive Nyla Rose match you're literally encouraging the viewer to change the
channel or do what you've been doing and checking out Youtube clips of the good stuff. A big chunk
of wrestling fans are fickle especially when the market is over saturated with it being on 5-6 times
a week.

It's frustrating because some people continue to justify a formula that isn't working and be against
stuff that has proven to work in the past. AEW feels like Einstein's definition of insanity sometimes
and WWE does as well for completely different reasons.

[Pharaoh]

What is considered the best Wrestlmania of all-time? WM 17

What is considered the best SummerSlam of all-time? SummerSlam 2002

What do both those shows have in common? there wasn't a bad match or segment on the show and if
there was it was very minimal and I don't remember anyone complaining about it being to much and
needing things to marinate and sink in. I don't buy that and that they devalue other matches or segments
either.

Timing is everything and there is times to go guns a blazing and start loading up. Tony has bought all
these new toys lets see them all perform on the same night instead of sprinkling them in with no name
jobber matches.

What has been happening is AEW keeps on bringing in these former stars (granted not as big as CM Punk)
and there is a temporary ratings spike as casuals check back in then they see the rest of the show and
they start leaving again. Right now Dynamites ratings have dropped for 4 consecutive weeks despite
the return to live crowds, acquiring (and barely using) Aleistar Black, all the buzz of CM Punk, Daniel Bryan,
Ric Flair etc coming in.

So it's telling that people that are sampling are not sticking around but they are interested to keep
checking back to see if they can turn it around and it's clear as day what the problems are.

You can book a fire opening segment with CM Punk or Chris Jericho but if you follow it up with a
20-30 minute competitive Nyla Rose match you're literally encouraging the viewer to change the
channel or do what you've been doing and checking out Youtube clips of the good stuff. A big chunk
of wrestling fans are fickle especially when the market is over saturated with it being on 5-6 times
a week.

It's frustrating because some people continue to justify a formula that isn't working and be against
stuff that has proven to work in the past. AEW feels like Einstein's definition of insanity sometimes
and WWE does as well for completely different reasons.

You just compared 2 PPVs (from memory WM 17 is one of the best ever) with a 1 hour free TV show though.

They're not the same thing, 2021 is different and AEW is not up against any wrestling competition on TV.

Anyone that tuned in for Punk can choose to watch the whole show or not.

If they choose not to watch then so be it but there's obvious reasons Mox was in the last match against a "nobody".

1 - if Punk goes long they trim time off every other segment, including the main event

2 - some fans likely watched the whole thing hoping Punk came out at the end to stare down Mox.

If All Out isn't a great show then I'll agree with the sentiment that AEW is missing the point but for right now I think they're playing it as safe as possible and not overexposing any one "superstar"

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[Scott Hall]

What is considered the best Wrestlmania of all-time? WM 17

What is considered the best SummerSlam of all-time? SummerSlam 2002

What do both those shows have in common? there wasn't a bad match or segment on the show and if
there was it was very minimal and I don't remember anyone complaining about it being to much and
needing things to marinate and sink in. I don't buy that and that they devalue other matches or segments
either.

Timing is everything and there is times to go guns a blazing and start loading up. Tony has bought all
these new toys lets see them all perform on the same night instead of sprinkling them in with no name
jobber matches.

What has been happening is AEW keeps on bringing in these former stars (granted not as big as CM Punk)
and there is a temporary ratings spike as casuals check back in then they see the rest of the show and
they start leaving again. Right now Dynamites ratings have dropped for 4 consecutive weeks despite
the return to live crowds, acquiring (and barely using) Aleistar Black, all the buzz of CM Punk, Daniel Bryan,
Ric Flair etc coming in.

So it's telling that people that are sampling are not sticking around but they are interested to keep
checking back to see if they can turn it around and it's clear as day what the problems are.

You can book a fire opening segment with CM Punk or Chris Jericho but if you follow it up with a
20-30 minute competitive Nyla Rose match you're literally encouraging the viewer to change the
channel or do what you've been doing and checking out Youtube clips of the good stuff. A big chunk
of wrestling fans are fickle especially when the market is over saturated with it being on 5-6 times
a week.

It's frustrating because some people continue to justify a formula that isn't working and be against
stuff that has proven to work in the past. AEW feels like Einstein's definition of insanity sometimes
and WWE does as well for completely different reasons.

You just compared 2 PPVs (from memory WM 17 is one of the best ever) with a 1 hour free TV show though.

They're not the same thing, 2021 is different and AEW is not up against any wrestling competition on TV.

Anyone that tuned in for Punk can choose to watch the whole show or not.

If they choose not to watch then so be it but there's obvious reasons Mox was in the last match against a "nobody".

1 - if Punk goes long they trim time off every other segment, including the main event

2 - some fans likely watched the whole thing hoping Punk came out at the end to stare down Mox.

If All Out isn't a great show then I'll agree with the sentiment that AEW is missing the point but for right now I think they're playing it as safe as possible and not overexposing any one "superstar"

Sent from my SM-G781B using RealGM Forums mobile app

And it's a lot easier to load up a 1 hour show like the old Saturday Night Main Events then 3 hour PPV's.
Also I'm not critiquing them based off one show it's been an ongoing pattern almost since inception.

Create a buzz pop a rating... then ratings start going down... create a buzz spike the ratings... then the
ratings start going down that's been the ongoing pattern for awhile now.

They just have to get out of that Wrestling Bubble Dave Meltzer or hardcore fan who will chant 'this is awesome"
to literally anything on the show and get in the mind of the fickle lapsed fan and both AEW and WWE
have no idea how to do that and keep going with their stubborn logic. One of the biggest problems with a lot of
companies nowadays is they listen to the loud minority instead of listening to the silent majority.

[Pharaoh]

What is considered the best Wrestlmania of all-time? WM 17

What is considered the best SummerSlam of all-time? SummerSlam 2002

What do both those shows have in common? there wasn't a bad match or segment on the show and if
there was it was very minimal and I don't remember anyone complaining about it being to much and
needing things to marinate and sink in. I don't buy that and that they devalue other matches or segments
either.

Timing is everything and there is times to go guns a blazing and start loading up. Tony has bought all
these new toys lets see them all perform on the same night instead of sprinkling them in with no name
jobber matches.

What has been happening is AEW keeps on bringing in these former stars (granted not as big as CM Punk)
and there is a temporary ratings spike as casuals check back in then they see the rest of the show and
they start leaving again. Right now Dynamites ratings have dropped for 4 consecutive weeks despite
the return to live crowds, acquiring (and barely using) Aleistar Black, all the buzz of CM Punk, Daniel Bryan,
Ric Flair etc coming in.

So it's telling that people that are sampling are not sticking around but they are interested to keep
checking back to see if they can turn it around and it's clear as day what the problems are.

You can book a fire opening segment with CM Punk or Chris Jericho but if you follow it up with a
20-30 minute competitive Nyla Rose match you're literally encouraging the viewer to change the
channel or do what you've been doing and checking out Youtube clips of the good stuff. A big chunk
of wrestling fans are fickle especially when the market is over saturated with it being on 5-6 times
a week.

It's frustrating because some people continue to justify a formula that isn't working and be against
stuff that has proven to work in the past. AEW feels like Einstein's definition of insanity sometimes
and WWE does as well for completely different reasons.

You just compared 2 PPVs (from memory WM 17 is one of the best ever) with a 1 hour free TV show though.

They're not the same thing, 2021 is different and AEW is not up against any wrestling competition on TV.

Anyone that tuned in for Punk can choose to watch the whole show or not.

If they choose not to watch then so be it but there's obvious reasons Mox was in the last match against a "nobody".

1 - if Punk goes long they trim time off every other segment, including the main event

2 - some fans likely watched the whole thing hoping Punk came out at the end to stare down Mox.

If All Out isn't a great show then I'll agree with the sentiment that AEW is missing the point but for right now I think they're playing it as safe as possible and not overexposing any one "superstar"

Sent from my SM-G781B using RealGM Forums mobile app

And it's a lot easier to load up a 1 hour show like the old Saturday Night Main Events then 3 hour PPV's.
Also I'm not critiquing them based off one show it's been an ongoing pattern almost since inception.

Create a buzz pop a rating... then ratings start going down... create a buzz spike the ratings... then then
ratings start going down that's been the ongoing pattern for awhile now.

They just have to get out of that Wrestling Bubble Dave Meltzer or hardcore fan who will chant 'this is awesome"
to literally anything on the show and get in the mind of the fickle lapsed fan and both AEW and WWE
have no idea how to do that and keep going with their stubborn logic. One of the biggest problems with a lot of
companies nowadays is they listen to the loud minority instead of listening to the silent majority.

I think the main problem AEW has is that so much of their roster are unknown to casual fans or even WWE fans but gotta give it time.

Since day one though AEW have built Hangman, MJF, Sammy & Darby as stars.

Personally I think they suffer from having Mox & Jericho at the top of the card cause both guys come with that "mid card WWE" stench.

Take it from the POV of a WWE fan - AEW looks like a development league.

But if Punk, Bryan, Bray & Omega are your top guys? Perception changes.

It's kinda why I'm happy Omega is their champ - he's not a WWE mid card guy.

I personally don't think they need to stack every show but they do need to be mindful of having too many "Indy" guys go out there back to back.

If they altenated between these Indy guys and their stars the WWE or lapsed fan likely doesn't bail out

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[Dominator83]

What is considered the best Wrestlmania of all-time? WM 17

What is considered the best SummerSlam of all-time? SummerSlam 2002

What do both those shows have in common? there wasn't a bad match or segment on the show and if
there was it was very minimal and I don't remember anyone complaining about it being to much and
needing things to marinate and sink in. I don't buy that and that they devalue other matches or segments
either.

Timing is everything and there is times to go guns a blazing and start loading up. Tony has bought all
these new toys lets see them all perform on the same night instead of sprinkling them in with no name
jobber matches.

What has been happening is AEW keeps on bringing in these former stars (granted not as big as CM Punk)
and there is a temporary ratings spike as casuals check back in then they see the rest of the show and
they start leaving again. Right now Dynamites ratings have dropped for 4 consecutive weeks despite
the return to live crowds, acquiring (and barely using) Aleistar Black, all the buzz of CM Punk, Daniel Bryan,
Ric Flair etc coming in.

So it's telling that people that are sampling are not sticking around but they are interested to keep
checking back to see if they can turn it around and it's clear as day what the problems are.

You can book a fire opening segment with CM Punk or Chris Jericho but if you follow it up with a
20-30 minute competitive Nyla Rose match you're literally encouraging the viewer to change the
channel or do what you've been doing and checking out Youtube clips of the good stuff. A big chunk
of wrestling fans are fickle especially when the market is over saturated with it being on 5-6 times
a week.

It's frustrating because some people continue to justify a formula that isn't working and be against
stuff that has proven to work in the past. AEW feels like Einstein's definition of insanity sometimes
and WWE does as well for completely different reasons.

You just compared 2 PPVs (from memory WM 17 is one of the best ever) with a 1 hour free TV show though.

They're not the same thing, 2021 is different and AEW is not up against any wrestling competition on TV.

Anyone that tuned in for Punk can choose to watch the whole show or not.

If they choose not to watch then so be it but there's obvious reasons Mox was in the last match against a "nobody".

1 - if Punk goes long they trim time off every other segment, including the main event

2 - some fans likely watched the whole thing hoping Punk came out at the end to stare down Mox.

If All Out isn't a great show then I'll agree with the sentiment that AEW is missing the point but for right now I think they're playing it as safe as possible and not overexposing any one "superstar"

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I'm going with Scott here. For a show this big and with this many eyeballs, my main event is for sure featuring Kenny Omega. Maybe even a 3 way dance of Omega vs Moxley vs whoever.

[iMoreland]

Spoiler:

Meltzer: Bray Wyatt to AEW is "most likely happening."

[Amare_1_Knicks]

What is considered the best Wrestlmania of all-time? WM 17

What is considered the best SummerSlam of all-time? SummerSlam 2002

What do both those shows have in common? there wasn't a bad match or segment on the show and if
there was it was very minimal and I don't remember anyone complaining about it being to much and
needing things to marinate and sink in. I don't buy that and that they devalue other matches or segments
either.

Timing is everything and there is times to go guns a blazing and start loading up. Tony has bought all
these new toys lets see them all perform on the same night instead of sprinkling them in with no name
jobber matches.

What has been happening is AEW keeps on bringing in these former stars (granted not as big as CM Punk)
and there is a temporary ratings spike as casuals check back in then they see the rest of the show and
they start leaving again. Right now Dynamites ratings have dropped for 4 consecutive weeks despite
the return to live crowds, acquiring (and barely using) Aleistar Black, all the buzz of CM Punk, Daniel Bryan,
Ric Flair etc coming in.

So it's telling that people that are sampling are not sticking around but they are interested to keep
checking back to see if they can turn it around and it's clear as day what the problems are.

You can book a fire opening segment with CM Punk or Chris Jericho but if you follow it up with a
20-30 minute competitive Nyla Rose match you're literally encouraging the viewer to change the
channel or do what you've been doing and checking out Youtube clips of the good stuff. A big chunk
of wrestling fans are fickle especially when the market is over saturated with it being on 5-6 times
a week.

It's frustrating because some people continue to justify a formula that isn't working and be against
stuff that has proven to work in the past. AEW feels like Einstein's definition of insanity sometimes
and WWE does as well for completely different reasons.

You just compared 2 PPVs (from memory WM 17 is one of the best ever) with a 1 hour free TV show though.

They're not the same thing, 2021 is different and AEW is not up against any wrestling competition on TV.

Anyone that tuned in for Punk can choose to watch the whole show or not.

If they choose not to watch then so be it but there's obvious reasons Mox was in the last match against a "nobody".

1 - if Punk goes long they trim time off every other segment, including the main event

2 - some fans likely watched the whole thing hoping Punk came out at the end to stare down Mox.

If All Out isn't a great show then I'll agree with the sentiment that AEW is missing the point but for right now I think they're playing it as safe as possible and not overexposing any one "superstar"

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I'm going with Scott here. For a show this big and with this many eyeballs, my main event is for sure featuring Kenny Omega. Maybe even a 3 way dance of Omega vs Moxley vs whoever.

Yeah, I don’t even think the ME of the show needed a PPV level match — but put one of your featured talents out there and not a guy that hardly anyone knows. Present it as a big deal. Moxley in the spot is fine — he’s one of their bigger names and he’s recognizable by most wrestling fans. Throw PAC in there with him, or Ethan Page or Hobbs, etc.

No disrespect to Danny Garcia, but he looks like your average Joe off the street. I see more impressive looking guys at my local gym. This guy in that position doesn’t bring in more fans — not at this stage of his career anyway.

[Flames24Rulz]

Dropping $6 to sit in the 300 level at the UC and to witness that live was spectacular. I've sat through a handful of garbage RAW's/SD's over the last several years and that one moment and pop made it all worth it. Nobody in the building cared about the rest of the show after the Punk promo, lol. They could've had Mox main event against Benny the Bull and it would've had the same effect as the 2.0 dude.

The lines for the shirts were crazy -- we ran down to the 100 level as soon as the Punk promo was done and they were already stretching out to the stairs. My only regret from Friday night was not being able to get in line quick enough to get the "I was here" shirt. The ice cream bar was worth it though.

If AEW actually lands Bray & Adam Cole, their roster is going to be so stacked. I do agree that guys like Black should be featured on the show every week -- some of the mid-card acts need to be dropped to AEW Dark/Elevation. I was a huge Matt Hardy mark growing up, but his faction has no business getting TV time every week once guys like Bryan/Bray/Cole come on the scene. Heck, you could even say that right now before those guys arrive to AEW, that they shouldn't be getting the amount of TV time that they are currently.

I'm genuinely curious to see what the ratings are going to be for Dynamite on Wednesday because if they can get close to 1.3-1.4 million, they won't be that far off from what RAW draws.

The tickets for All Out on Stubhub are insane right now too. They'll probably come down a little bit before the show happens, but the level of excitement that AEW has currently is pretty surreal. Good call on Punk not being a needle mover, Vince...lol.

[Scott Hall]

You just compared 2 PPVs (from memory WM 17 is one of the best ever) with a 1 hour free TV show though.

They're not the same thing, 2021 is different and AEW is not up against any wrestling competition on TV.

Anyone that tuned in for Punk can choose to watch the whole show or not.

If they choose not to watch then so be it but there's obvious reasons Mox was in the last match against a "nobody".

1 - if Punk goes long they trim time off every other segment, including the main event

2 - some fans likely watched the whole thing hoping Punk came out at the end to stare down Mox.

If All Out isn't a great show then I'll agree with the sentiment that AEW is missing the point but for right now I think they're playing it as safe as possible and not overexposing any one "superstar"

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And it's a lot easier to load up a 1 hour show like the old Saturday Night Main Events then 3 hour PPV's.
Also I'm not critiquing them based off one show it's been an ongoing pattern almost since inception.

Create a buzz pop a rating... then ratings start going down... create a buzz spike the ratings... then then
ratings start going down that's been the ongoing pattern for awhile now.

They just have to get out of that Wrestling Bubble Dave Meltzer or hardcore fan who will chant 'this is awesome"
to literally anything on the show and get in the mind of the fickle lapsed fan and both AEW and WWE
have no idea how to do that and keep going with their stubborn logic. One of the biggest problems with a lot of
companies nowadays is they listen to the loud minority instead of listening to the silent majority.

I think the main problem AEW has is that so much of their roster are unknown to casual fans or even WWE fans but gotta give it time.

Since day one though AEW have built Hangman, MJF, Sammy & Darby as stars.

Personally I think they suffer from having Mox & Jericho at the top of the card cause both guys come with that "mid card WWE" stench.

Take it from the POV of a WWE fan - AEW looks like a development league.

But if Punk, Bryan, Bray & Omega are your top guys? Perception changes.

It's kinda why I'm happy Omega is their champ - he's not a WWE mid card guy.

I personally don't think they need to stack every show but they do need to be mindful of having too many "Indy" guys go out there back to back.

If they altenated between these Indy guys and their stars the WWE or lapsed fan likely doesn't bail out

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Take it from the POV of a WWE fan - AEW looks like a development league.

Yeah I think that's a huge problem to many casual lapsed fans it does look like a development league. To people
all over the World the WWE is the McDonalds and Walmart of wrestling and even if you don't watch anymore you
still grew up watching WrestleMania, Royal Rumble, SummerSlam, Survivor Series people know those events and
when it's time to check in (if the product is good). People 50 or so and younger grew up playing WWE video games
at times it's the nostalgia factor. So AEW is gonna have this stench of being the "minor league", "development league",
"Cheap WWE knock off" or whatever to A LOT of people and are gonna have to fight to get that stench off.

I agree about Omega being champ... I also like the logic of going young and building new stars what a major problem is
that I've seen is right now seems to be the biggest talent drought since before the 80's boom so probably since the 70's.
A lot of the guys AEW is throwing out there are way way way to green and have no business being on National TV right
now. Being young doesn't automatically mean you're good and gonna be a future star it's like an NBA team trying to do a
rebuild with a bunch of 2nd round picks thinking they're doing a proper rebuild.

I saw that video the other day from an old WWE documentary where Vince said Ted Turner called him once and said
"Hey Vince I'm in the Wrasslin business" and Vince said "that's nice I'm in the Entertainment business" and it feels like
Tony Khan is following Ted Turners old logic and he's also surrounded himself with "wrestling guys" an no people with
high level TV experience but I could be wrong on that.

Dynamite is still a "television show" at the end of the day and you need to build characters and have fluent storylines.
Even the most hardcore wrestling fans out there have no clue who some of these Indy guys are and why they are thrown
in high level matches and then a lot of times they completely disappear you don't see them anymore. There roster is
already huge why aren't they just rolling with the guys they have especially the main players? Also having only 4 PPVs
a year I think kind of hurts them as there is no urgency to build towards anything and it's just a place for the wrestling
industry to come and hang out and guys fresh out of Wrestling School for 2 months can have main event matches.

Andrades been there what like 2 months now? is he even doing anything other then switching up from Vicki to Chavo
as his main mouth piece? Miros booking has completely been a disaster since day one and they still haven't fixed it
yet (P.S. what ever happened to Kip Sabian?). Brian Cage was completely botched putting him in a unnecessary stable
right off the bat that went no where. They completely cooled off Malaki vs. Cody after 2 minutes on the grill. It's cool
that Kenny Omega works for other promotions but imagine if he got a serious injury working for AAA or Impact and was
gone for 6 months?

So for all the faults that Vince and WWE have I think people are noticing Tony Khan and AEW have completely different
faults of there own and I think the fickle, lapsed, casual fan isn't completely sold yet. I've given up on Vince at his
age ever changing and know nothing will change until he's gone but I just hope Tony Khan starts realizing he's making a lot
of mistakes and adapts instead of just expecting the new shiny toy coming in to keep things going forward.